So, we have established the fact that you can legally be on break on a bay getting tipped, now how is when your on say Felixstowe container terminal waiting for the crane to lift your box on or off, some times they may be waiting for you at your position, good, or the crane is at the other end of the row and you could be sat there doing nothing for a while, bad, so what mode could you be on whilst waiting to get seen to, work, rest or POA?
I’d use rest. That’s only because I get paid for rest, and my thinking is that just maybe having a 15 or even a 45 there would make the difference to getting an extra load in or not. Which in turn could be the difference between the truck earning or losing money, which in turn could be the difference between the boss carrying on or saying “bugger it” and selling the lot.
Okay, maybe a bit extreme but I’m sure you get the point. I’d like to add that if I wanted to stop for a break at a place of my choosing I’d also do that even if I had been on break while waiting for a box. It’s all about give and take from both sides without taking the ■■■■ imo.
the maoster:
I’d use rest. That’s only because I get paid for rest, and my thinking is that just maybe having a 15 or even a 45 there would make the difference to getting an extra load in or not. Which in turn could be the difference between the truck earning or losing money, which in turn could be the difference between the boss carrying on or saying “bugger it” and selling the lot.Okay, maybe a bit extreme but I’m sure you get the point. I’d like to add that if I wanted to stop for a break at a place of my choosing I’d also do that even if I had been on break while waiting for a box. It’s all about give and take from both sides without taking the ■■■■ imo.
Just what I do, but is it legal to have it on break? Felixstowe have a policy that drivers are not allowed to take a break on the terminal, but if your in your slot and it takes 45 mins while your on break, for the crane to get to you, regardless of FDRC’s policy, would that be a legal 45 min break?
Officialy you not allowed to take breaks on the terminals at Felixstowe, thats part off the ports by laws, also you cant leave your vahicle and dispose off your time as you wish, therefore it could count as a break under drivers hours rules, whilst waiting for a ■■■■■■ in the rows. Reckon that you would be legal to have a break in the THA area, under drivers hours rules, but you would fall foul of the FDRC by law about breaks on the terminal. You teachnically cant be on POA whilst waiting in the rows, as you dont know how long you will be waiting, again THA as long as you’ve not got a pager, as again they dont tell you how long before the pager goes off.
In reallity who doesnt use the time on the quay to their own advantage 
regardless of FDRC’s policy, would that be a legal 45 min break?
No
also you cant leave your vahicle and dispose off your time as you wish,
I thought that was only relevant to “rest” and not “breaks”
eddie snax:
Officialy you not allowed to take breaks on the terminals at Felixstowe, thats part off the ports by laws, also you cant leave your vahicle and dispose off your time as you wish, therefore it could count as a break under drivers hours rules, whilst waiting for a ■■■■■■ in the rows. Reckon that you would be legal to have a break in the THA area, under drivers hours rules, but you would fall foul of the FDRC by law about breaks on the terminal. You teachnically cant be on POA whilst waiting in the rows, as you dont know how long you will be waiting, again THA as long as you’ve not got a pager, as again they dont tell you how long before the pager goes off.In reallity who doesnt use the time on the quay to their own advantage
regardless of FDRC’s policy, would that be a legal 45 min break?
No
I would say, sitting waiting to get loaded or unloaded by a crane would be no different to taking a break on a bay waiting to get tipped or loaded, also there are RDC’s that have a policy saying breaks cannot be taken on there property, but that’s not the same as having a break on there bays, so is there a difference?
del949:
also you cant leave your vahicle and dispose off your time as you wish,
I thought that was only relevant to “rest” and not “breaks”
Well I’m not sure now you say that, but I was allways under impresion that it applied to breaks aswell, you dont have to leave your vehicle, but i think that you to have the option, which you dont have on the terminal.
But as I said who wouldnt use that time to their advantage
I would say, sitting waiting to get loaded or unloaded by a crane would be no different to taking a break on a bay waiting to get tipped or loaded, also there are RDC’s that have a policy saying breaks cannot be taken on there property, but that’s not the same as having a break on there bays, so is there a difference?
I see what you say, but where is the toilet when you stuck in the rows. Most RDC’s do give you access to a toilet which could walk to whilst your truck is on a bay, that is not possible whilst in the rows, where it is available at THA. Thats just the first thought on differences between the 2 scenarios that sprung to mind
eddie snax:
del949:
also you cant leave your vahicle and dispose off your time as you wish,
I thought that was only relevant to “rest” and not “breaks”
Well I’m not sure now you say that, but I was allways under impresion that it applied to breaks aswell, you dont have to leave your vehicle, but i think that you to have the option, which you dont have on the terminal.
But as I said who wouldnt use that time to their advantage
I would say, sitting waiting to get loaded or unloaded by a crane would be no different to taking a break on a bay waiting to get tipped or loaded, also there are RDC’s that have a policy saying breaks cannot be taken on there property, but that’s not the same as having a break on there bays, so is there a difference?
I see what you say, but where is the toilet when you stuck in the rows. Most RDC’s do give you access to a toilet which could walk to whilst your truck is on a bay, that is not possible whilst in the rows, where it is available at THA. Thats just the first thought on differences between the 2 scenarios that sprung to mind
Are you legally required to have access to facilities whilst on break tipping on a bay?
And just to point out, taking a break on THA is also against FDRC’S policy!
weeto:
eddie snax:
del949:
also you cant leave your vahicle and dispose off your time as you wish,
I thought that was only relevant to “rest” and not “breaks”
Well I’m not sure now you say that, but I was allways under impresion that it applied to breaks aswell, you dont have to leave your vehicle, but i think that you to have the option, which you dont have on the terminal.
But as I said who wouldnt use that time to their advantage
I would say, sitting waiting to get loaded or unloaded by a crane would be no different to taking a break on a bay waiting to get tipped or loaded, also there are RDC’s that have a policy saying breaks cannot be taken on there property, but that’s not the same as having a break on there bays, so is there a difference?
I see what you say, but where is the toilet when you stuck in the rows. Most RDC’s do give you access to a toilet which could walk to whilst your truck is on a bay, that is not possible whilst in the rows, where it is available at THA. Thats just the first thought on differences between the 2 scenarios that sprung to mind
Are you legally required to have access to facilities whilst on break tipping on a bay?
!
Maybe not but I was trying to make the point that you can leave your vehicle whilst on an RDC bay, and stated a reason why you might need to, and you cant leave your vehicle whilst waiting in the rows, so to my reckoning you cant dispose off your time as you wish, and to be picky, you cant even choose when your break will finnish. so I’m sure that maybe looked at unfavourably if you were stopped at the out gate, and VOSA do stand in dock gate 2 on a regular basis.
And just to point out, taking a break on THA is also against FDRC’S policy
Well I did say that in my first post.
Reckon that you would be legal to have a break in the THA area, under drivers hours rules, but you would fall foul of the FDRC by law about breaks on the terminal
At the end off the day, lots off drivers do take breaks on the terminal, wether it’d stand as legal to the driver hours rules or not, it is breaking FRDC by laws, and this could lead to you being barred, I’m lead to believe the port police now operate a system of endorsmanets to your RHIDES card, 3 endorsments withn a year and thats you banned.
Surely the “ban” on breaks in the docks is just to deter people parking randomly in free areas and to stop the “I’ve only got 3 mins left till its 15/30/45 etc” excuse.
Common sense to me would be grab a break if you can and don’t cause a snarl up.
kjw21:
Surely the “ban” on breaks in the docks is just to deter people parking randomly in free areas and to stop the “I’ve only got 3 mins left till its 15/30/45 etc” excuse.Common sense to me would be grab a break if you can and don’t cause a snarl up.
i was just thinking this, you can take your brake in many places inside the gates, but i think its more once you’ve booked in the actual system you should not deliberatly take a break, but if you just so happen to sit for the correct amount of minutes then all the better - how do vosa prove you were’nt parked on oysterbed road for example?
sixaxles:
kjw21:
Surely the “ban” on breaks in the docks is just to deter people parking randomly in free areas and to stop the “I’ve only got 3 mins left till its 15/30/45 etc” excuse.Common sense to me would be grab a break if you can and don’t cause a snarl up.
i was just thinking this, you can take your brake in many places inside the gates, but i think its more once you’ve booked in the actual system you should not deliberatly take a break, but if you just so happen to sit for the correct amount of minutes then all the better - how do vosa prove you were’nt parked on oysterbed road for example?
That’s the thing, is it legal to take a break? Why should felixstowe terminal be any different to any other terminal.
Just because its a bye law of the terminal, doesn’t mean it would against the law as regards to tacho law.
I’d say its legal. Legislation doesn’t state local bye laws or rules of admission on private property over rule tacho laws. Unless I’m mistaken.
So in my view vosa could pull me on the gate with my tacho showing a 45 waiting for a box and could do sweet fa about it as its a legal break.
in my view then yes, if i’m stationary and i can see the opurtunity to make a sandwich or have a look on the laptop or generally do not driving related activities then how can they say you were not taking a break, its a break from driving, simples. you could answer it to yourself - do you feel rested enough to carry on driving for a further 4.5 hours, possibly not, so in that instant, have a kip somewhere you can with out being in the way. i’ve got on the bunk before whilst waiting for the rtg, i just crack the window so the chime of his/her bell wakes me up when he/her comes over my truck. i think if vosa were to do the rounds within the dock itself and pull next to me and see which mode i had my tacho on whilst making a bit of something to eat and then say put it on cross hammers, i think i could see myself refusing to be honest. as said, it has to be down to common sense - were you driving? doing other work? do you feel sufficiently rested?
No experts want to comment on this? ROG Tachograph?
sixaxles:
kjw21:
Surely the “ban” on breaks in the docks is just to deter people parking randomly in free areas and to stop the “I’ve only got 3 mins left till its 15/30/45 etc” excuse.Common sense to me would be grab a break if you can and don’t cause a snarl up.
i was just thinking this, you can take your brake in many places inside the gates, but i think its more once you’ve booked in the actual system you should not deliberatly take a break, but if you just so happen to sit for the correct amount of minutes then all the better - how do vosa prove you were’nt parked on oysterbed road for example?
I can agree with all your logic, and as I have previously said who wouldnt take advantage off stationary time, But do you feel that confident in your argument to take VOSA on and believe you’d win, because I dont. I think Vosa would claim that wether it be rules about not taking breaks on the terminal, or the situation off sitting in your vehicle without being able to leave it at your will, or any other reason, I think you’d be looking at a fine. Yes by all means claim you were on Oysterbed rd, but it wouldnt be hard for them to check using your RHIDES card swipe time at the out gate, better to say you were using the THA area.
so what mode could you be on whilst waiting to get seen to, work, rest or POA?
was the original question, the answer is any mode you like, at the end off the day you are responsible for your drivers hours, its your choice. Me, I’ll keep using whatever best suits my purpose at any given time, apart from POA coz I dont use that fullstop
kjw21:
Surely the “ban” on breaks in the docks is just to deter people parking randomly in free areas and to stop the “I’ve only got 3 mins left till its 15/30/45 etc” excuse.Common sense to me would be grab a break if you can and don’t cause a snarl up.
^ This.
VOSA have yet to fit black box trackers to trucks afaik.
If you’re waiting for a box and need the loo, obviously you’d drive round to the toilet block and return to your location afterwards. Doesn’t everyone do this? 
As for freely able to dispose of your time and being able to leave the vehicle, this can be awkward during a rolling break while double manning.
Doesn’t this proviso relate to daily rest?
eddie snax:
sixaxles:
kjw21:
Surely the “ban” on breaks in the docks is just to deter people parking randomly in free areas and to stop the “I’ve only got 3 mins left till its 15/30/45 etc” excuse.Common sense to me would be grab a break if you can and don’t cause a snarl up.
i was just thinking this, you can take your brake in many places inside the gates, but i think its more once you’ve booked in the actual system you should not deliberatly take a break, but if you just so happen to sit for the correct amount of minutes then all the better - how do vosa prove you were’nt parked on oysterbed road for example?
I can agree with all your logic, and as I have previously said who wouldnt take advantage off stationary time, But do you feel that confident in your argument to take VOSA on and believe you’d win, because I dont. I think Vosa would claim that wether it be rules about not taking breaks on the terminal, or the situation off sitting in your vehicle without being able to leave it at your will, or any other reason, I think you’d be looking at a fine. Yes by all means claim you were on Oysterbed rd, but it wouldnt be hard for them to check using your RHIDES card swipe time at the out gate, better to say you were using the THA area.
so what mode could you be on whilst waiting to get seen to, work, rest or POA?
was the original question, the answer is any mode you like, at the end off the day you are responsible for your drivers hours, its your choice. Me, I’ll keep using whatever best suits my purpose at any given time, apart from POA coz I dont use that fullstop
Thing is, it’s not VOSA’s job to police FDRC’S policies on the terminal, and also the only place I’ve seen these stay in your cab notices, is on an RTG leg, if there is no crane about you would be free to leave your truck, just like you can when you are reconfiguring a skelly.
weeto:
Thing is, it’s not VOSA’s job to police FDRC’S policies on the terminal, and also the only place I’ve seen these stay in your cab notices, is on an RTG leg, if there is no crane about you would be free to leave your truck, just like you can when you are reconfiguring a skelly.
Yes obviously, which is why the port police when cruising the terminal will instruct you to return to your vehicle when out of the cab chatting with the driver off a nearby truck, even though there is no ■■■■■■ anywhere to be seen. I mean if you were silly enough to over shoot your bay by “say” 5 spaces in the fork park dont even think about backing up on to it, because the FT driver will call the port police to come and give a ticking off, I know coz I made that mistake, and I have also been asked to move to a safer place than one off those trailer bays in E row whilst reconfiguring a skelly. The safer place advised happened to be by the fence at far end off 266 bays. So dont be under the illusion that they are there to offer any kind off help, some off them are right little jumped up jobs worth’s, not all, there are some great guys there to, but you just dont know who’ who 
If you’re waiting for a box and need the loo, obviously you’d drive round to the toilet block and return to your location afterwards. Doesn’t everyone do this?
Behave
As for freely able to dispose of your time and being able to leave the vehicle, this can be awkward during a rolling break while double manning.
Doesn’t this proviso relate to daily rest?
Well I’ll consider myself educated, because all these years I read that rule wrong, but I’ve not been done for a tahco offence ever yet, so I reckon I must be doing something right, probably not getting caught, even after taking breaks on the terminal.
Weeto, you posed a question in the OP, I tried to give you an answer based on what I understood the drivers hours and port rules to be(not what I may or may do myself), but by weight of opinion, I seem be in a minority as to how I understand those rules. My only other comment on this is to work it how you see fit, as only you can ultimatly be responsible for your drivers hours. I’m off to read the driver hours again 
Goaty:
If you’re waiting for a box and need the loo, obviously you’d drive round to the toilet block and return to your location afterwards. Doesn’t everyone do this?
I v’e seen several drivers from a well known container haulier while waiting for the ■■■■■■ nip round the side of the wagon or like one driver while on the thathe other day at landguard ,which isnt that far from the toilet block there do the same thing,dirty gits 
as for taking breaks on the dock I waited the other week just over 90 mins for the chap to come and unplug the reefer then it took the ■■■■■■ another 30 mins after that to put the box on , i waited for 20 mins then rang the csc to see what the hold up was, when he said it was going to be at least 45 to 60 mins before they got round to unplugging, that was my que to put it on break and get the kettle on 