Agreed
As we go along,through our working lives…we form friemdships/little groups,that tend to follow each other around.
One finds a better job,puts the others a word in…And they follow.
Eventually,one of you strikes gold.and you all live happily ever after 
commonrail:
AgreedAs we go along,through our working lives…we form friemdships/little groups,that tend to follow each other around.
One finds a better job,puts the others a word in…And they follow.
Eventually,one of you strikes gold.and you all live happily ever after
Me and my oppo have been doing this for over 30 years 
lolipop:
Carryfast:
lolipop:
Simple answer Insurance,plus would you let someone with little or no experience loose with a motor thats cost you close to a100k or moreHow do those with experience get it if they can’t get a start without it.Oh wait suddenly no insurance or experience issues and loads of adverts for local multi drop/retail/hiab building materials/other types of dross available.
Same way as others like myself and many others started, at the bottom working for few "tin pot"outfits and driving old knackers of a fleet to get experience and proving your worth before progressing upwards as we gained experience.
To many think because they hold a class 1 by paying out a few grand entitles them to go straight into top jobs,as most will say it don`t work like that unless you are dead lucky
As above - third paragraph!
Took me 10 years to get onto Class one work after starting out on Class three general haulage and then onto Class two (lucky break with a decent company) and finally artic’s.
I did my own buckshee repairs along the way when things went awry , maps drawn on scraps of paper etc.
Both assumptions are correct, and both are wrong - according to which business model followed.
In the “Just in time” model, there will always be a shortage of drivers for key shifts that are often “difficult to fill”, and yet these “surges in demand” are not worth taking on a single driver full-time for in themselves.
Perhaps a 4 hour per day thing where you “for those four hours” need an extra 25 drivers…? Outside those times, you don’t even need a single full timer.
The only line of work in this country that has a steady 24/7 demand - is “having an accident” with hospital admissions day and night being around the same, with surges during a particularily bad motorway pile-up, or building fire for instance.
And yet various Health Ministers have struggled to put the NHS on the same 24/7 footing like the Transport industry runs on already!!
As it stands, if you go into hospital between 18:00 friday and 06:00 monday morning - you’re far more likely to actually die, no matter how minor the injury.
"There simply aint enough specialist injury/trauma medical staff on shift at these times… Bearing in mind that the Friday “killer” Rush hour falls in this quite wide margin, as well…
“Getting hurt” is a 9/5 affair only for things like minor ops, and non-life saving treatments. Even then there is a HUGE demand during “Office Hours” evident with the usual queues in waiting rooms that all-too-often seem to comprise of “People that have got all day” such as benefit claimants, the retired, and the accident prone.
When they tried putting the NHS on a “Just in time” agency model - they ended up forking out rates like £50ph, and living next door to such a worker - it all seems to have died off by this point, 2019 - leaving those that have left “full time” now struggling to do anything other than “Take a career break”.
I wonder what would happen to the entry levels of the transport industry IF such high hourly rates ever got applied to Transport agency workers?
“Supply creates it’s own demand”
(Say’s Law)
Once you find yourself in a job that’s generally acceptable, then better to work towards improving it rather than stalking off in a hissy fit. Seen far too many do this only for them to reappear 3 months later, cap in hand.
New drivers should understand that they wont be getting the V8 Scanny on their first day/week/ month or even year. Start on skips or tippers and keep out of trouble Be prepared to do the dirty jobs and get a few thousand clicks under your belt.Then you will be employable.
lolipop:
Carryfast:
lolipop:
Simple answer Insurance,plus would you let someone with little or no experience loose with a motor thats cost you close to a100k or moreHow do those with experience get it if they can’t get a start without it.Oh wait suddenly no insurance or experience issues and loads of adverts for local multi drop/retail/hiab building materials/other types of dross available.
Same way as others like myself and many others started, at the bottom working for few "tin pot"outfits and driving old knackers of a fleet to get experience and proving your worth before progressing upwards as we gained experience.
To many think because they hold a class 1 by paying out a few grand entitles them to go straight into top jobs,as most will say it don`t work like that unless you are dead lucky
Which translates as ‘experienced’ drivers think that only they have the god given right to decent work while new drivers can take all the zb and often get type cast with it.On that note why a supposed ‘insurance’ issue for new drivers on decent work but miraculously no issue when it’s zb work.So there we have it no driver shortage just an increasing shortage of drivers prepared to be taken for mugs.
As for old knackers you don’t know the meaning of the word unless you’ve driven something like a 1940’s Matador as a council driver in the 1980’s.While I was driving that among other similar heaps 4 years after getting my licence,other younger ‘less experienced’ drivers were walking into international jobs because their face fitted.Even worse jobs then awaited me after that on agency with night trunking finally being as good as it ever got.Before my back finally gave out long before my time in the job in large part because of all the zb labouring work which went with the territory of what you laughingly describe as ‘tin pot’ work and even to an extent the move to hub system type trunking. 
Juddian:
commonrail:
AgreedAs we go along,through our working lives…we form friemdships/little groups,that tend to follow each other around.
One finds a better job,puts the others a word in…And they follow.
Eventually,one of you strikes gold.and you all live happily ever afterMe and my oppo have been doing this for over 30 years
The system works well
robroy:
adam277:
No there’s a definite shortageOk, So if there is this ‘‘definite shortage’’ …
Why is it that me as a driver with a vast and much varied experience, (and a clean licence), is on poor wages?
Why are firms not fighting over each other to hire me and drivers like me with the same experience?
Why do most firms (of the type I work for) look upon their drivers as a ‘necessary evil’ rather than a precious asset, and treat them accordinglly?
Why are agencies holding their drivers to ransom… and not vice versa?
Because you were right the first time. It’s all ■■■■■■■■ 
Case in point. I was looking for a change recently so phoned my nearest Stobart depot to see if they were looking for drivers (Yes, I know!!). Was basically told to ■■■■ off by some monotoned fandan and go to their website.
That doesn’t come across as a company desperate for experienced drivers.
u
Darkspirit:
Think of it as a lucky escape Rabb
Aye, dodged a bullet mate.
Had a good laugh yesterday about something along these lines.
Applied for agency gig on indeed, now bear in mind I passed class 2 test on 23rd July this year, and CPC last Friday to be ‘Fully Qualified’.
Agency phones back less than 15 minutes after I sent away CV. Explains the work, asks what experience I have. Tell her none, only thing I have is I did a last minute run on Saturday night from St Abbs to Glasgow. Asks if I have 60 days driving experience. Ask her to get out her fingers and count the days since I passed my test, then goes on to tell me I can’t be offered the job because of insurance and the rest, which I understand, however there has to be something for the fact she phoned me 10 minutes after I applied, then gets picky about my not having enough experience. Clearly got the CV in and just looked for the phone number 
rabb:
robroy:
adam277:
No there’s a definite shortageOk, So if there is this ‘‘definite shortage’’ …
Why is it that me as a driver with a vast and much varied experience, (and a clean licence), is on poor wages?
Why are firms not fighting over each other to hire me and drivers like me with the same experience?
Why do most firms (of the type I work for) look upon their drivers as a ‘necessary evil’ rather than a precious asset, and treat them accordinglly?
Why are agencies holding their drivers to ransom… and not vice versa?
Because you were right the first time. It’s all ■■■■■■■■
Case in point. I was looking for a change recently so phoned my nearest Stobart depot to see if they were looking for drivers (Yes, I know!!). Was basically told to [zb] off by some monotoned fandan and go to their website.
That doesn’t come across as a company desperate for experienced drivers.
…If you’d said on the phone "I’ve heard that this firm pays a bit more than the minium wage. Where do I apply?" then rest assured - the application form with the “Eddie Stobart Rates Of Pay” insert strangely missing - will be on it’s way to you by last post that day! 
rabb:
That doesn’t come across as a company desperate for experienced drivers.
The fact is no one can call ‘shortage’ unless all employers in every sector of the industry are desperate for inexperienced or experienced drivers.That clearly isn’t the case.
What we’ve got is high demand for drivers in unattractive sectors of the industry which few if any drivers really want resulting in a ( perceived ) ‘shortage’ of ‘drivers’.With employers then trying to take advantage of that erroneous perception to over supply the whole driver labour market.In which it’s clear that supply already way outweighs demand.Thereby allowing employers to cherry pick applicants on an often arbitrary face fits elitist basis and imposing often silly low hourly wage rates and equally silly high working week expectations thereby adding to the issue of over supply.
I disagree. All the time we see agencies going “six points OK” - I’d argue that the “bottom of the barrel is being scraped” pretty much already.
Then there’s outfits like RM that seem to now resent agency so much (cos it’s by far the higest paid widely-available agency work about…) they’ll act in collusion (full time drivers acting as managers) to get rid of people at the drop of a hat…
I noticed very few EE drivers indeed last Christmas at RM… It’s not because they are “discriminating against foreigners” either. The shop floor is full of Non-EU citizens regardless of what part of the country you are in… A major difference I’d noticed from my old days there as full timer a decade ago.
RM also take 90 minutes off on shifts of 12 hours and over, plus give you the spanish inquisition for running more than 9 minutes late, taking breaks anytime but when scheduled, and taking breaks anywhere on the public highway, including legally required breaks in safe laybys when EMPTY ffs…
If they’re not careful, they’ll end up with all their drivers being of TNT or Tipper “Job ‘n’ Knock” mentality, where everything has to be rush-rush-rush - just to keep out of trouble from the Isotrac Inquisitor’s scrutiny! 
Winseer:
If they’re not careful, they’ll end up with all their drivers being of TNT or Tipper “Job ‘n’ Knock” mentality, where everything has to be rush-rush-rush - just to keep out of trouble from the Isotrac Inquisitor’s scrutiny!
Arn’t they already there?
I treat their vehicles with the same caution i do the various parcel carrier artics, presume its driven by clueless who can’t see more than 50 yards ahead and hasn’t the foggiest what’s happening behind once his cab windows have gone past
Winseer:
RM also take 90 minutes off on shifts of 12 hours and over, plus give you the spanish inquisition for running more than 9 minutes late, taking breaks anytime but when scheduled
I’ve always taken my…
Breaks wherever I’ve wanted to take them. That would include leaving the yard and having 20 minutes off under an our into my first drive of the day. They’re my breaks not managements. Never had any one ever question my cards about it either.
Admittedly it was a long time ago but when I drove nights for RM out of Normanton, 90 minutes delay was usual let alone 9 minutes. They can’t just deduct what they see fit after 12 hours unless you and the agency had agreed to it previously. If you did you were a mug.
Re yourhavingalarf’s post above; some years ago for a summer job I double manned a coach from Woodall Services to Chiasso(CH).I used to drop off cyclists all along the route and the campers used to stay on board until near Venice.The coach company boss liked to micro manage the entire operation including where i was to take breaks.Needless to say I only lasted about 3 months.
yourhavingalarf:
Winseer:
RM also take 90 minutes off on shifts of 12 hours and over, plus give you the spanish inquisition for running more than 9 minutes late, taking breaks anytime but when scheduledI’ve always taken my…
Breaks wherever I’ve wanted to take them. That would include leaving the yard and having 20 minutes off under an our into my first drive of the day. They’re my breaks not managements. Never had any one ever question my cards about it either.
Admittedly it was a long time ago but when I drove nights for RM out of Normanton, 90 minutes delay was usual let alone 9 minutes. They can’t just deduct what they see fit after 12 hours unless you and the agency had agreed to it previously. If you did you were a mug.
Everyone gets 90minutes break deducted “no pay” for shifts of 12 hours and over these days. It has been that way for some time, agreed by the Union as long ago as “The Way Forward” fiasco over a decade ago, as far as I know. "A huge one-off pay rise, mainly helping rural office Postpeople, in exchange for a scrapping of 1.65x overtime (now 1.15 or 1.00), and mark-time allowances. LGV drivers voted heavily against it if I recall, whilst van drivers - were strongly in favour. It got passed, and now we have the situation where agency are better off than full timers! Drivers resent that of course, and with so many drivers now acting as managers - they’ll know all the tricks to watch out for to throw drivers “that should know better” under the bus at the first opportunity.
The old adage “Just work your 318” - doesn’t work, as you’ll have one manager ordering you to “Hang on” for a late load, with another then carpeting you for “leaving late” when you comply. I tried the so-called “closed door” policy once, only to be told “if you leave, and shut out THIS lot - I’ll make sure you never work here again!” Lose/Lose. If you please one manager, you upset another who’ll blame the agency, because the agency are just whipping boys for the big bucks that RM now pays them via Pertemps, Manpower et al.
The very hardest thing to get hold of at RM these days is a “Holding Code” - this mythical thing that only seems to exist on paper, rather than the real world.
If you push back against this culture of “Manager covering Manager” then guess what? - You’ll quickly find yourself on a final warning, and rushed into a corner where something happens that wouldn’t have happened if left to one’s own devices - gets you the boot.
I wonder if it is the same culture in other counties, as I had no problems on the trunking side of RM running in and out of Coventry for instance. Popular as a driver “showing flexibility” there, I was…
I’d be interested to know what Chelmsford/Gatwick are like to work out of, as they always seem to be advertizing for “temp drivers” - as early as September for Christmas each year of late…
lolipop:
Simple answer Insurance,plus would you let someone with little or no experience loose with a motor thats cost you close to a100k or more
Yes actually I would because whilst a new driver might have a couple of minor scrapes, I think a new driver will be taking more care and keeping distance from the truck in front. It’s often actually older and more experienced drivers you see so close to the truck in front that they can’t even see if the brake lights go on. I don’t think there is evidence to show that new drivers have written off a 100k truck any more than an experienced driver. Minor stuff I’ll accept is more likely from a newbie but massive stuff I think the risk is equal perhaps even swayed slightly in favour of newbies because they are being more careful and not “on auto pilot” yet.