Confused about 45 hours rest in cab

[hammy747]

While people are probably right that it won’t be policed very well, we’ve been told off the record that the DVSA will be expecting drivers to carry receipts/proof of payment for hotels or truck stop parking with them for the 30 days previous to prove that the 45 they’ve taken in the cab was taken somewhere suitable.

Personally i see no problem with it, its in the interest of the drivers welfare and its down to the company to pay for the appropriate hotel or parking charge. The only problem now will be the already over full truck stops trying to cope with the extra trucks needing places to park.

[harry_monk]

Can’t understand this. EU regulations state that a 45 hour rest period cannot be taken in the cab, not that it can if the cab is in a paid-for parking place.

[franglais]

Harry Monk:
Can’t understand this. EU regulations state that a 45 hour rest period cannot be taken in the cab, not that it can if the cab is in a paid-for parking place.

True enough Harry, but selective enforcement is nothing new. It’s illegal to go over 70 mph but no one is busted for 71.
If you take your 45 somewhere you csn get a receipt (by spending money) you’ll be fine. Wee but of profit for some one there. But no need to spend too much (don’t be too soft on drivers) as rates may be forced up increasing the prices in the shops or slimming down corporate margins.

Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk

[yourhavingalarf]

When ever I…

Had a 45. I would find somewhere with a hotel, restuarant, swimming pool (if possible) and get the hell outta the truck.

Europe was much better for weekending than the UK.

sooo long ago

[muckles]

truckyboy:
Looks like i`m gonna start building some cheap hotels over the country…£10 a night should do it…meals extra…

I’d suggest you build them in France, Germany or Belgium, as has already been posted on here, the DVSA say they’ll only enforce the Regulations for those that are parked inappropriately, such as in layby’s on slip roads, without access to basic facilities, staying in your cab in a truckstop or service area will not attract a fine. Which is basically the DVSA saying we haven’t got enough staff and there isn’t enough cheap accommodation with truck parking nearby.

[muckles]

AndrewG:
This could shaft many EE’s on very low wages and isnt a good thing imo, however, policing it is another matter entirely, prediction it will just carry on regardless. Many F1 and Ibis charge as little as 18eur for a room, not up to date on UK costs though…

Must be a long time since you stayed in an Ibis if you think you can get a room for €18, I believe even F1 hotels are nearer the €30 mark. Stayed in an Ibis Budget the other night, one up from an F1 it was €55 per room.

Concretejim:
Serious question, why do you think it isnt a good thing? I see it as a direct move to TRY and level the playing field by stopping east euro drivers living in there cab for months at a time. Surely seeing what has become of the spanish hauliers, jcarrion for example id of thought someone like yourself would be all for it.

It’s a clumsy move by various European Governments to level the playing field, but they only have a few tools to try and protect their own jobs and haulage industry without falling foul of EU free movement and free market rules.

Macron recently got an agreement on new EU regs on posted workers within the EU, much to the annoyance of many East European countries. However though the transport sector has the biggest problem with the use of posted workers to undercut the local workforce and local companies, the transport sector was exempted from the new regs, as apparently there will be new proposals for that at one point.

There are many cracks appearing within the EU, between East European countries and West European countries about cheap Posted and Migrant workers, over immigration and over closer integration.

AndrewG:
I can see your point re levelling the field i dont disagree but knowing the rates some EE companies are hauling on and drivers pay, its going to be the driver who is further out of pocket. Margins are very small in some cases. EE drivers have to toe the line to earn a crust as theres many more queueing to take their job.
JCarrion merging with Emitir and Veinsur S.A wasnt ideal…

But that’s the problem, the EU hauliers have have cut the rates to the bone, pricing out Western European hauliers, and although I agree it might not be fair on the drivers, Western European hauliers have hardly had it fair trying to compete with a haulage industry that can pay it’s workers a pittance of what it’s drivers expect or have to pay due to their countries minimum wage laws, and this has adversely affect Western European drivers jobs, like the Spanish drivers who used to work for J Carrion.

[silverwolve]

While people are probably right that it won’t be policed very well, we’ve been told off the record that the DVSA will be expecting drivers to carry receipts/proof of payment for hotels or truck stop parking with them for the 30 days previous to prove that the 45 they’ve taken in the cab was taken somewhere suitable.

When you park with snap account…do someone know if can you get a parking ticket or a receipt? i´ve ever thought it´s only account parking without ticket because no cash or card payment…

[andrejs]

Can simply avoid fines.If drivers had 45 hours rest that another week he can takes reduced rest 44h59 min.This rest can be takes legally anywhere.Start rest at 1000 Saturday and wake up Monday at 0630.At 06.58 watch around and if see police or Dvsa that change tacho to another job with 44h59 min.It is reduced rest.In not see anyone that stay exactly 45 hours and run away legally.

[tipperdipper1]

Andrejs:
Can simply avoid fines.If drivers had 45 hours rest that another week he can takes reduced rest 44h59 min.This rest can be takes legally anywhere.Start rest at 1000 Saturday and wake up Monday at 0630.At 06.58 watch around and if see police or Dvsa that change tacho to another job with 44h59 min.It is reduced rest.In not see anyone that stay exactly 45 hours and run away legally.

This, what Andrejs says it’s exacatly the thing what the drivers from certain european countries do when authorities in Germany or Belgium start their control

But it doesn’t work when the driver already had his reduced rest the weekend before.

[beau_nydel]

Isn’t there some proposal to change to 2 reduced weekend breaks then one full break plus any makeup from the reductions? Think the idea is so the flipflops can flipflop for 3 weeks but should return back to base for the extended break.

[muckles]

Andrejs:
Can simply avoid fines.If drivers had 45 hours rest that another week he can takes reduced rest 44h59 min.This rest can be takes legally anywhere.Start rest at 1000 Saturday and wake up Monday at 0630.At 06.58 watch around and if see police or Dvsa that change tacho to another job with 44h59 min.It is reduced rest.In not see anyone that stay exactly 45 hours and run away legally.

But that only works if you can have a reduced weekly rest that week, but this hasn’t been enforced because the drivers they’re after have one weekend away and then return home, it’s been done because those drivers are based away from home for weeks on end, in Countries where the companies they work can undercut the local haulage operations because they don’t have to pay the same wages.

[andrejs]

muckles:

Andrejs:
Can simply avoid fines.If drivers had 45 hours rest that another week he can takes reduced rest 44h59 min.This rest can be takes legally anywhere.Start rest at 1000 Saturday and wake up Monday at 0630.At 06.58 watch around and if see police or Dvsa that change tacho to another job with 44h59 min.It is reduced rest.In not see anyone that stay exactly 45 hours and run away legally.

But that only works if you can have a reduced weekly rest that week, but this hasn’t been enforced because the drivers they’re after have one weekend away and then return home, it’s been done because those drivers are based away from home for weeks on end, in Countries where the companies they work can undercut the local haulage operations because they don’t have to pay the same wages.

Most ee drivers now get wages plus night out -2000 Euro per month.Some British company get worse truck and pay less that We company.Good experienced drivers not go work for UK because they earn better money there.But undercutting will be all time by someone.It is simply business.Every businessman sleep and thing how to cut another companies.Plus to many company waste money for nothing and do plenty empty miles.

[andrejs]

Tipperdipper1:

Andrejs:
Can simply avoid fines.If drivers had 45 hours rest that another week he can takes reduced rest 44h59 min.This rest can be takes legally anywhere.Start rest at 1000 Saturday and wake up Monday at 0630.At 06.58 watch around and if see police or Dvsa that change tacho to another job with 44h59 min.It is reduced rest.In not see anyone that stay exactly 45 hours and run away legally.

This, what Andrejs says it’s exacatly the thing what the drivers from certain european countries do when authorities in Germany or Belgium start their control

But it doesn’t work when the driver already had his reduced rest the weekend before.

but another week driver may be will be in Italy or Spain where no restriction.

[andrewg]

Andrejs:

muckles:

Andrejs:
Can simply avoid fines.If drivers had 45 hours rest that another week he can takes reduced rest 44h59 min.This rest can be takes legally anywhere.Start rest at 1000 Saturday and wake up Monday at 0630.At 06.58 watch around and if see police or Dvsa that change tacho to another job with 44h59 min.It is reduced rest.In not see anyone that stay exactly 45 hours and run away legally.

But that only works if you can have a reduced weekly rest that week, but this hasn’t been enforced because the drivers they’re after have one weekend away and then return home, it’s been done because those drivers are based away from home for weeks on end, in Countries where the companies they work can undercut the local haulage operations because they don’t have to pay the same wages.

Most ee drivers now get wages plus night out -2000 Euro per month.Some British company get worse truck and pay less that We company.Good experienced drivers not go work for UK because they earn better money there.But undercutting will be all time by someone.It is simply business.Every businessman sleep and thing how to cut another companies.Plus to many company waste money for nothing and do plenty empty miles.

EE’s have a good system as Andrejs points out and with many drivers aka Waberers and the like will alternate drivers in different areas ie Uk and then Spain. Return loads is what its about, we never ever run empty, as mentioned, much money is wasted by certain companies who then complain re poor turnover…

[muckles]

Andrejs:

muckles:

Andrejs:
Can simply avoid fines.If drivers had 45 hours rest that another week he can takes reduced rest 44h59 min.This rest can be takes legally anywhere.Start rest at 1000 Saturday and wake up Monday at 0630.At 06.58 watch around and if see police or Dvsa that change tacho to another job with 44h59 min.It is reduced rest.In not see anyone that stay exactly 45 hours and run away legally.

But that only works if you can have a reduced weekly rest that week, but this hasn’t been enforced because the drivers they’re after have one weekend away and then return home, it’s been done because those drivers are based away from home for weeks on end, in Countries where the companies they work can undercut the local haulage operations because they don’t have to pay the same wages.

Most ee drivers now get wages plus night out -2000 Euro per month.Some British company get worse truck and pay less that We company.Good experienced drivers not go work for UK because they earn better money there.But undercutting will be all time by someone.It is simply business.Every businessman sleep and thing how to cut another companies.Plus to many company waste money for nothing and do plenty empty miles.

€2000 a month is still pretty low wages for being away for long periods of time compared to most Western European and have you broken down those wages against time away including weekends?
Agreed businesses try and find a competitive edge to get the work and in haulage that normally means a lower price, but when you operate from a country where one of your major costs are far lower than in another country where you are allowed to operate freely, that gives you a massive commercial advantage over your competition operating in that country, and this is one of the problems with having a free market over a group of countries with massive variations in rates of pay and living costs.

[muckles]

AndrewG:
Return loads is what its about, we never ever run empty, as mentioned, much money is wasted by certain companies who then complain re poor turnover…

So what yourself and Andrejs are saying is all those Western European logistics companies and freight forwarders either set up haulage operations in Eastern Europe or sub contracted Eastern European haulage companies to pull their trailers because it was more efficient, despite the fact they were still the same companies and the same contracts and traffic planning systems they had when they run the operations out of their home countries and not because they could cut wages costs?

[andrejs]

muckles:

AndrewG:
Return loads is what its about, we never ever run empty, as mentioned, much money is wasted by certain companies who then complain re poor turnover…

So what yourself and Andrejs are saying is all those Western European logistics companies and freight forwarders either set up haulage operations in Eastern Europe or sub contracted Eastern European haulage companies to pull their trailers because it was more efficient, despite the fact they were still the same companies and the same contracts and traffic planning systems they had when they run the operations out of their home countries and not because they could cut wages costs?

how Wincanton can earn money if they sent Pepsi cola load to Scotland and back empty.Of course Downton can do this job more cheap because they have much more collection.Second.In UK around London live about 30 percent of population and more rich customer.So all Cdc,rec more busy but not so much factory around London.Much more load must delivered from North to London area than collect back.For this reason for logistic company much more better give load to foreign truck who anyway back to Dover than use own truck and back to North empty.

[andrejs]

About working away from home that can t see any problem .Thousand people in UK live in Scotland but work in London.Also seaman,soldier work away.At present modern truck can live in truck better than in house.If use has cooker that can cook better good that make KFC,Mac Donald or standart Chicken@chips.
About litter and parking that must build more lay by just with WC.And in most city must sacked all street cleaners because they simply do own job very poor.Also must provide big bin for rubbish.All rubbish not just from drivers.Ee drivers not go so much for KFC,Greece but every corner can see paper with this company sign.

[mazzer2]

Andrejs:
Most ee drivers now get wages plus night out -2000 Euro per month.Some British company get worse truck and pay less that We company.Good experienced drivers not go work for UK because they earn better money there.But undercutting will be all time by someone.It is simply business.Every businessman sleep and thing how to cut another companies.Plus to many company waste money for nothing and do plenty empty miles.

Don’t know which EE countries pay 2000 euro per month spoke to a Hungarian 3 weeks ago said Waberers are on 1600 and that was backed up by a Hungarian who works for us. The EE drivers who are driving flagged out Irish lorries are not on 2000 euro per month because the lorries are flagged out it means they avoid paying the Irish minimum wage, Poles maybe on that but Bulgaria and Romania are not paying that money. Go to Zeebrugge and see all the Bg and Ro drivers doing Belgian work that has been subbed out to a Slovakian company and then subbed out again to the Bg and Ro, won’t be enough left in it to pay a decent wage. If the EE wages are so high why would they want to work in the UK, with 2000 euro per month and living in the lorry you would make more than doing shift work in the UK after you take out your living costs.

[tipperdipper1]

Beau Nydel:
Isn’t there some proposal to change to 2 reduced weekend breaks then one full break plus any makeup from the reductions? Think the idea is so the flipflops can flipflop for 3 weeks but should return back to base for the extended break.

Yes and that’s because the Eastern European countries want it this way and the Northern +Western European have a much more different view on this.

The EU just got to big…To many people with total different views on economics, work ethik etc.

If this goes ahead we will see more and more EE companies floating the market.
There’s also the minium wage problem. The new resolution says “you have to pay the minium wage from the country you transporting goods in/driving around after 3 days”

Example:
Polish or Bulgarian company with a polish or Bulgarian driver on the minium wage in their home country.

Every one, even the dozy planner can manage that the trucks from the company mentioned above move within the 3rd day into another EU country > 2,5 days in NL > 2,75 days in Belgium > 1 day in France > 2 days in Spain = Result the driver stays always within the 3 day rule and his/her wage never raises.

That’s modern slavery.

I’m more worried about the drivers and under what circumstances they have to travel through whole Europe and I hate the fact that their bosses have a good life.

No Western European company can win such a competion with the rates and costs in certain EE countries, unless they subbing the work out to such firms.

But it’s also down to us and the politicians because we only have poor and rich left in the world. The working class is gone. And the consumer wants often cheap and even cheaper than the cheapest. Often down to the fact that only a few people have a huge income but more and more have less and less.

Sorry to everybody for hijacking this discussion.