Compulsory masks

[monkey241]

stu675:

Franglais:

stu675:
Yes but what you fail to realise is that millions of people catch Covid and nothing very harmful happens to them. We should just stop worrying about it…and live with it [emoji1787]

robroy:
A man talking sense, but apparentlly the way forward is to get totally engrossed in this stuff,.do more research on it than a university ptrofessor…in your free time , and carry on the ‘scaremongering’ on behalf of the ‘scaremongers’.
However I’m with you on it, life is too short as it is to worry about stuff, leave it to those who get paid to worry.

Last year 2020 more people in the UK died from Covid* than anything else.

More than died of Covid than of heart disease, lung cancer, dementia…anything else.
The biggest single cause of death…Get It?

ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation … ables/2020
“The leading cause of death in England and Wales in 2020 was the coronavirus (COVID-19), with 73,766 deaths (12.1% of all deaths); the second most common cause of death was dementia and Alzheimer’s disease, accounting for 11.5% of all deaths registered in 2020 (compared with 12.5% in 2019, when dementia and Alzheimer’s disease was the leading cause of death).”

In spite of all the precautions, in spite of the vaccines, in spite of everything. The biggest cause of death, UK, 2020, was Covid.
Now before you bash away at you keyboard that is not exaggeration. That is repeating what is a fact. A FACT. Verifiable, check it yourself.
Because it is a big number and you find it hard to understand or accept doesn`t make it fictitious.

Why do you keep saying it is an exaggerated problem? What information do you, Mr RobRoy, have that is missing to the NHS, WHO, ONS and most everyone else in the whole world?
The 3 dead people known to you? There are 607,922 dead people known to the NHS and ONS. I think their data base is a wee bit better than yours, don`t you?

You keep telling us you “get it”, but I really think you don`t. I keep looking for ways to show you the size of the numbers, the scale of the problem, but for some reason you keep arguing it is either a conspiracy or miscalculation or summat.

Come on then, where are we all going wrong. Weve put up figures from the NHS, WHO, ONS, BMJ, and loads of links all of which can be followed and checked. How many of those links are somehow wrong? Please tell us. I dont like false info so please tell me what is wrong.
How many links to good info have you posted?
I dont think youre a liar or owt, so where is it we are going wrong?
Where, Why, How, are all we going wrong?

*primary cause. Check the links the details are all there.
If you think there is faulty data gathering or analysis, tell us or tell them. It is complicated to gather data, certainly true, deciding what is “the cause of death” isn`t a simple “box ticking” exercise, that is true. The methods used are extensively explained on the site.

Franglais, why do you fall for all the nonsense fed to you?
You have no idea if Covid was or was not the biggest killer. There is no truthful reporting around Covid. Doctors getting paid thousands for reporting Covid deaths over other deaths, what do you think will be reported. If you can’t see it with your own eyes (not on a TV screen) then take it with a pinch of salt.

How does the payment for over reporting covid cases work then?

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

[jakethesnake]

jakethesnake:

the maoster:

jakethesnake:
I take it neither have known or seen anyone suffering or dying from covid.

Neither have you, despite what you’ll inevitably claim to the contrary. I know over 50 people who’ve contacted Covid. I’ve not witnessed any of them die and any suffering they may have done was in the comfort of their own beds for a few days.

I don’t believe you.

Did you count them one by one.

If you don’t believe me then I don’t believe you.

On a serious note unfortunately what I said was true. It may be due to the fact a lot of people I know tend to be from an older generation
but I have heard of plenty younger being very sick and worse too.

Personally I wish the conspiracy theorists could visit a busy covid ward and before you say it, no I have not been in one but I have a very close relative who works in one.

[jakethesnake]

Franglais, why do you fall for all the nonsense fed to you?
You have no idea if Covid was or was not the biggest killer. There is no truthful reporting around Covid. Doctors getting paid thousands for reporting Covid deaths over other deaths, what do you think will be reported. If you can’t see it with your own eyes (not on a TV screen) then take it with a pinch of salt.

stu do you still believe doctors stand about doing nothing? If so let’s see the evidence? I think you talk nonsense.

[robroy]

stu675:

robroy:

jakethesnake:
Sense? This is the same guy that reckons doctors stand about doing nothing.

I take it neither have known or seen anyone suffering or dying from covid.

Either back that statement up Jakey me old mate, or apologise for getting me mixed up with somebody else.
I have NEVER said that about Doctors.
…Your call.

I know of at least 3 people personally who have died WITH Covid., but none personally who have died OF Covid.
Hope that answers your question.

Rob, Jake was referring to my comment about doctors.
Which I stand by. The NHS block booked private hospitals and had them standing idle. Bit like the nightingales.

Ok mate, cheers.
The local gig venue where I live was closed the first March of all this,.around the same time as we were getting news and pics streamed from Italy where bodies were supposedlly piling up, the Army made it into a temporary hospital to accommodate the mass exodus of dying Covid victims, with an adjoining morgue with a refrigerated trailer parked beside it.
…obviously it was never used.

I fully admit that I was taken in over the severity of all this at that time, I remember ringing Maoster while I was on furlough and he was working, and getting vibes off him that he thought I was talking ■■■■■■■■ about all this (he still reminds me btw )
Sky news was full of it, they were virtually predicting doomsday, the wife was panicking,.I even recall making her stay at home,.and not go out so she didn’t catch it,.and I would take the chance (being the gallant sort of guy I am ) while I went out and did the shopping, masked up to the eyeballs like I was going out on the rob, …joining the rest of the lookalike apocalypse victims in Asda.
When I got back to work and resumed some kind of normality,.I opened my eyes looked around,.and thought, hang on what’s happening here…where is the doomsday scenario,.

I don’t know why ‘they’ are exaggerating all this,.especially with the blow to the economy,.I just think they are.

[monkey241]

robroy:

stu675:

robroy:

jakethesnake:
Sense? This is the same guy that reckons doctors stand about doing nothing.

I take it neither have known or seen anyone suffering or dying from covid.

Either back that statement up Jakey me old mate, or apologise for getting me mixed up with somebody else.
I have NEVER said that about Doctors.
…Your call.

I know of at least 3 people personally who have died WITH Covid., but none personally who have died OF Covid.
Hope that answers your question.

Rob, Jake was referring to my comment about doctors.
Which I stand by. The NHS block booked private hospitals and had them standing idle. Bit like the nightingales.

Ok mate, cheers.
The local gig venue where I live was closed the first March of all this,.around the same time as we were getting news and pics streamed from Italy where bodies were supposedlly piling up, the Army made it into a temporary hospital to accommodate the mass exodus of dying Covid victims, with an adjoining morgue with a refrigerated trailer parked beside it.
…obviously it was never used.

I fully admit that I was taken in over the severity of all this at that time, I remember ringing Maoster while I was on furlough and he was working, and getting vibes off him that he thought I was talking ■■■■■■■■ about all this (he still reminds me btw )
Sky news was full of it, they were virtually predicting doomsday day, the wife was panicking,.I even recall making her stay at home,.and not go out so she didn’t catch it,.and I would take the chance (being the gallant sort of guy I am [emoji38] ) while I went out and did the shopping, masked up to the eyeballs like I was going out on the rob, …joining the rest of the lookalike apocalypse victims in Asda.

I don’t know why ‘they’ are exaggerating all this,.especially with the blow to the economy,.I just think they are.

It’s very simple Rob.

The press. Hysterical reporting over deaths and the subsequent pillorying of politicians has resulted in a desperate desire to control the disease.

Contrary to what you clearly think our thinking on this is probably closer than you think (trust me; that’s alarming [emoji6])

You just lack the empathy to grasp why others are still panicked by it.

There’s also the argument that all the attenuation measures ensured the NHS didn’t get swamped to the extent that Italian hospitals did. Undoubtedly the death rate would have been higher had that been the case.

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[robroy]

Fair comment, (even though you still can,t resist the inevitable jibe. ) I am neither the most sympathetic nor empathic touchy feely type, nor do I suffer fools gladly…(I’m biting my lip hard could have had a dig there but I resisted . )

[monkey241]

robroy:
Fair comment, (even though you still can,t resist the inevitable jibe. [emoji38] ) I am neither the most sympathetic nor empathic touchy feely type, nor do I suffer fools gladly…(I’m biting my lip hard could have had a dig there but I resisted . [emoji38] )

You don’t need to be touchy freely to do empathy Rob. I get your point on the inevitable jibe and would humbly suggest:

A. You reap what you sow [emoji6]

And

B. Empathy requires a degree of emotional intelligence.

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[the_maoster]

jakethesnake:
On a serious note unfortunately what I said was true. It may be due to the fact a lot of people I know tend to be from an older generation
but I have heard of plenty younger being very sick and worse too.

I totally get what you’re saying about the older generation but with respect I’ll counter that by saying “t’was ever thus”. It’s an inalienable truth that the older generation suffer more health problems than the young. I imagine that being eaten alive by cancer or living the horror that is dementia is terrible. Yes, I know you can’t “catch” either of them diseases whereas you can catch Covid, but personally I’d much rather enjoy my twilight years and to hell with the consequences as opposed to hiding away waiting to die.

I will however question your oft repeated mantra that the young are suffering and dying from Covid. That assertion needs to be quantified; namely the overwhelming majority of young who die or are very ill have underlying pre-existing health conditions which would most likely result in premature demise anyway. When Lewis Hamilton was diagnosed with Covid way back when did anyone seriously expect him to die from it, or did they, like me think that he’d merely have two weeks off and then be back on his A game?

[stu675]

The only stat of any importance to me, is the fact of excess mortality (which is the only measure that is difficult to manipulate) adjusted for age growth and population growth has been the very worst since all the way back to 2008. That is what we are dealing with, a new severe flu season.

[franglais]

stu675:

Franglais:

stu675:
Yes but what you fail to realise is that millions of people catch Covid and nothing very harmful happens to them. We should just stop worrying about it…and live with it [emoji1787]

robroy:
A man talking sense, but apparentlly the way forward is to get totally engrossed in this stuff,.do more research on it than a university ptrofessor…in your free time , and carry on the ‘scaremongering’ on behalf of the ‘scaremongers’.
However I’m with you on it, life is too short as it is to worry about stuff, leave it to those who get paid to worry.

Last year 2020 more people in the UK died from Covid* than anything else.

More than died of Covid than of heart disease, lung cancer, dementia…anything else.
The biggest single cause of death…Get It?

ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation … ables/2020
“The leading cause of death in England and Wales in 2020 was the coronavirus (COVID-19), with 73,766 deaths (12.1% of all deaths); the second most common cause of death was dementia and Alzheimer’s disease, accounting for 11.5% of all deaths registered in 2020 (compared with 12.5% in 2019, when dementia and Alzheimer’s disease was the leading cause of death).”

In spite of all the precautions, in spite of the vaccines, in spite of everything. The biggest cause of death, UK, 2020, was Covid.
Now before you bash away at you keyboard that is not exaggeration. That is repeating what is a fact. A FACT. Verifiable, check it yourself.
Because it is a big number and you find it hard to understand or accept doesn`t make it fictitious.

Why do you keep saying it is an exaggerated problem? What information do you, Mr RobRoy, have that is missing to the NHS, WHO, ONS and most everyone else in the whole world?
The 3 dead people known to you? There are 607,922 dead people known to the NHS and ONS. I think their data base is a wee bit better than yours, don`t you?

You keep telling us you “get it”, but I really think you don`t. I keep looking for ways to show you the size of the numbers, the scale of the problem, but for some reason you keep arguing it is either a conspiracy or miscalculation or summat.

Come on then, where are we all going wrong. Weve put up figures from the NHS, WHO, ONS, BMJ, and loads of links all of which can be followed and checked. How many of those links are somehow wrong? Please tell us. I dont like false info so please tell me what is wrong.
How many links to good info have you posted?
I dont think youre a liar or owt, so where is it we are going wrong?
Where, Why, How, are all we going wrong?

*primary cause. Check the links the details are all there.
If you think there is faulty data gathering or analysis, tell us or tell them. It is complicated to gather data, certainly true, deciding what is “the cause of death” isn`t a simple “box ticking” exercise, that is true. The methods used are extensively explained on the site.

Franglais, why do you fall for all the nonsense fed to you?
You have no idea if Covid was or was not the biggest killer. There is no truthful reporting around Covid. Doctors getting paid thousands for reporting Covid deaths over other deaths, what do you think will be reported. If you can’t see it with your own eyes (not on a TV screen) then take it with a pinch of salt.

So if the figures I am quoting from the ONS are wrong, what are the correct figures?
Where do you get your information?
.
Or do you get on your bike every night, whip around past all the “doctors stood around doing nothing” and count all the bodies your own self?
If you only believe what you see with your eyes then maybe you blinked and missed a few?
No one person alone can possibly see the whole picture. I trust the NHS & ONS more than other sources. Who do you trust?
.
“Doctors are paid more for covid deaths”?
Really? Where is that from? The USA?
A Donald Trump speech??
politifact.com/factchecks/2 … -covid-19/
.
Any other sources? Who do you trust?
.
.
.Ed to add. UK rumour.
reuters.com/article/uk-fact … SKBN22X2LD
Is ■■■■■■■■ too.

[franglais]

stu675:
The only stat of any importance to me, is the fact of excess mortality (which is the only measure that is difficult to manipulate) adjusted for age growth and population growth has been the very worst since all the way back to 2008. That is what we are dealing with, a new severe flu season.

So you go through ALL the many stats on the ONS and finally find ONE that supports your argument…
And all of a sudden the ONS which you previously said is full of false figures, is now CORRECT?!
.
“Its all rubbish, except this one figure, which I like, which is reliable”…

[franglais]

Mazzer2:
I just said Franglias as it is easier than cutting and pasting we all know you do not work for the ONS although you may be their best customer

Thank goodness it`s free to us!

[franglais]

Mazzer2:
The only stat of any importance to me is the mortality rate currently around the 2% mark take into account my ethincity, age and no underlying health and being pretty fit (in a physical way ) for my age it is probably under 1% so tbh hardly a cause for concern or a reason for putting my life on hold.
Three close friends have had covid one a woman in her 30’s who is physically fit said it was like a mild bout of flu, another in their late 50’s not unhealthy, it stopped her from working at home and again she said like a severe bout of flu the third again in her 50’s clinically obese unlike the other two no vaccinations said it knocked her for six put her in bed for four days after about a week she said felt ok just a bit weak, none required the aid of doctors or hospital treatment even the one who statistically should have been hospitalised hardly the killer disease some would have you believe, if we had a mortality rate of 2% in cancer we would be celebrating and as statistically 1 in 3 of us will get cancer in one form or another that would be something to celebrate.
Franglais said covid killed 12% of people who died in the UK in 2020 that means 88% didn’t die of covid so roughly 1 in 10 of all UK deaths and it will probably be lower for 2021 as a lot of the easy targets have already been had and there were no vaccines in 2020 so in all likelihood an even lower death rate for 2021 yet there are still people calling for lockdowns etc.

Mostly I take the same actions as you, but I think there are some issues in your post.

I weak mask when indoors in company, and I dont like crowded places, but if an outdoor crowd, Id wear a mask there too. Walking down the street, no, but in a crowd, yes. I still eat in restaurants, but avoid sitting directly opposite strangers at a table. I dont elbow up to the bar jostling shoulders.
Still possible to talk etc, but no need to be a hermit. We more or less agree there I think?
I hope to be mixing with some more distant people at Christmas, some of whom are rather more at risk than me. I am hopeful I wont be too ill if I get the virus, but am sure they are more at risk, so, Ill be quite cautious in the time before I meet with them. Not for myself, but to protect them.
Any symptoms at all and I will self isolate until I get a clear test. Not because Im a hypochondriac, but to protect others. Because Im a tough macho trucker, I could carry on, but any I infect might not. Better for a few infected people to isolate for a few days, than have the vulnerable isolate for ever, because they could meet me coughing and sneezing coming down the road wearing no mask.

With more vaccines, and the improving technology to modify them, with very clever analysis of new variants we can hope to get better at tackling this virus. We agree there too?

Stand by…

[franglais]

Started writing, but wasn`t sure of things, so leaving it here.
.

[robroy]

Franglais:

Mazzer2:
The only stat of any importance to me is the mortality rate currently around the 2% mark take into account my ethincity, age and no underlying health and being pretty fit (in a physical way ) for my age it is probably under 1% so tbh hardly a cause for concern or a reason for putting my life on hold.
Three close friends have had covid one a woman in her 30’s who is physically fit said it was like a mild bout of flu, another in their late 50’s not unhealthy, it stopped her from working at home and again she said like a severe bout of flu the third again in her 50’s clinically obese unlike the other two no vaccinations said it knocked her for six put her in bed for four days after about a week she said felt ok just a bit weak, none required the aid of doctors or hospital treatment even the one who statistically should have been hospitalised hardly the killer disease some would have you believe, if we had a mortality rate of 2% in cancer we would be celebrating and as statistically 1 in 3 of us will get cancer in one form or another that would be something to celebrate.
Franglais said covid killed 12% of people who died in the UK in 2020 that means 88% didn’t die of covid so roughly 1 in 10 of all UK deaths and it will probably be lower for 2021 as a lot of the easy targets have already been had and there were no vaccines in 2020 so in all likelihood an even lower death rate for 2021 yet there are still people calling for lockdowns etc.

Mostly I take the same actions as you, but I think there are some issues in your post.

I weak mask when indoors in company, and I dont like crowded places, but if an outdoor crowd, Id wear a mask there too. Walking down the street, no, but in a crowd, yes. I still eat in restaurants, but avoid sitting directly opposite strangers at a table. I dont elbow up to the bar jostling shoulders.
Still possible to talk etc, but no need to be a hermit. We more or less agree there I think?
I hope to be mixing with some more distant people at Christmas, some of whom are rather more at risk than me. I am hopeful I wont be too ill if I get the virus, but am sure they are more at risk, so, Ill be quite cautious in the time before I meet with them. Not for myself, but to protect them.
Any symptoms at all and I will self isolate until I get a clear test. Not because Im a hypochondriac, but to protect others. Because Im a tough macho trucker, I could carry on, but any I infect might not. Better for a few infected people to isolate for a few days, than have the vulnerable isolate for ever, because they could meet me coughing and sneezing coming down the road wearing no mask.

With more vaccines, and the improving technology to modify them, with very clever analysis of new variants we can hope to get better at tackling this virus. We agree there too?

Stand by…

Franglais,.seriously mate,.you’re becoming a caricature of yourself over all this.
I keep tring to point out to you what everybody else on here can see, you spend far too much time over all this stuff,.overthink it, and pay far too much attention to detail to the point of obsession.
You say I and others…‘‘don’t get it’’,.trust me we do., it’s just that we tend to just ‘get on with it’’ in our own ways, take it all in our stride, and don’t let concern about it affect or change our lives

All of the links, you tube examples, and trawling the internet for ‘‘proof’’ of this that and the other is never going to encourage us to look at all this stuff with the same enthusiasm as you…

Just an observation and a friendly piece of advice…take it or leave it.

[the_maoster]

Everyone needs a hobby.

[idrive]

Franglais:
Started writing, but wasn`t sure of things, so leaving it here.
.

Please do this more often

[stu675]

Franglais:

stu675:
The only stat of any importance to me, is the fact of excess mortality (which is the only measure that is difficult to manipulate) adjusted for age growth and population growth has been the very worst since all the way back to 2008. That is what we are dealing with, a new severe flu season.

So you go through ALL the many stats on the ONS and finally find ONE that supports your argument…
And all of a sudden the ONS which you previously said is full of false figures, is now CORRECT?!
.
“Its all rubbish, except this one figure, which I like, which is reliable”…

No. I like all the stats that the ONS release. When you exclude all the deaths due to co morbidities, all the deaths due to old age, the ONS plainly states in ALL its stats that this has all been a massive over reaction.
The country has wasted a fortune that it can’t afford and it’s all been for nothing and the disaster has yet to unfold in terms of preventable premature deaths that have only just started and will be coming in force soon.

[monkey241]

stu675:

Franglais:

stu675:
The only stat of any importance to me, is the fact of excess mortality (which is the only measure that is difficult to manipulate) adjusted for age growth and population growth has been the very worst since all the way back to 2008. That is what we are dealing with, a new severe flu season.

So you go through ALL the many stats on the ONS and finally find ONE that supports your argument…
And all of a sudden the ONS which you previously said is full of false figures, is now CORRECT?!
.
“Its all rubbish, except this one figure, which I like, which is reliable”…

No. I like all the stats that the ONS release. When you exclude all the deaths due to co morbidities, all the deaths due to old age, the ONS plainly states in ALL its stats that this has all been a massive over reaction.
The country has wasted a fortune that it can’t afford and it’s all been for nothing and the disaster has yet to unfold in terms of preventable premature deaths that have only just started and will be coming in force soon.

You’ll have to explain the last para for me

Oh wait … you mean cancer etc.

You did see the footage of Italian hospitals? Putting in the initial firebreaks may just have avoided that… and much as old age has a nasty habit of killing people, you aren’t God.

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[robroy]

youtu.be/xjG_VB-la7o