Compulsory masks

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
861

yourhavingalarf:
From the…

Little that I’ve read, the supermarkets are saying that they’re not going to be rigidly enforcing the mask rule. The general consensus appears to be that it’s not their job to enforce the law, that’s up to the police.

It does seem to be a knee-jerk ruling when, several preliminary studies have shown the the new strain is less virilent than the ones already out in the wild.

I should wear one in the shop when there is only myself and a cashier but, not in a pub when I’m sat with half a dozen or more complete strangers. Yeh, ok.

The medics will probably tell you that’s it’s not a good idea to sit in a pub with a bunch of strangers.
.
Tim Martin thinks otherwise.
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Who has most influence I wonder?

862

carryfast-yeti:

JeffA:

Mazzer2:
As for masks do they work? Don’t they work? You can find research to back up your point of view whichever side of the arguement you’re on if you’ve nothing better to do with your time.
Northern Ireland currently has a higher infection rate than England yet has consistantly had stricter rules on masks. What can the great TN scientists conclude from this?

Hve you ever seen a doctor operate on someone without a mask? Masks obviously work. The next time someone you love has an operation you are going to run in and pull off their masks are you? Is that what david icke told you to do?

Have you tried finding out why the rate is higher in NI? Or did that just seem to support your point so you instantly latched onto it mistakenly?

i haven’t seen a doctor or surgeon wearing an old rag/handkerchief/bandana around their gob,like a lot of folk are wearing!

Im sure masks from 50 yearsago wernt as good as they are now but surgeons still wore them - because masks stop germs better than no masks. And if every surgeon on the face of the earth for the last 80 years has been wearing a mask - lets not take the antimaskers too seriously.

I wonder how many antimaskers would demand the surgeon remove his mask - “Just breathe all over me mate - it says on facebook theyre no good anyway”

863

JeffA:

carryfast-yeti:

JeffA:

Mazzer2:
As for masks do they work? Don’t they work? You can find research to back up your point of view whichever side of the arguement you’re on if you’ve nothing better to do with your time.
Northern Ireland currently has a higher infection rate than England yet has consistantly had stricter rules on masks. What can the great TN scientists conclude from this?

Hve you ever seen a doctor operate on someone without a mask? Masks obviously work. The next time someone you love has an operation you are going to run in and pull off their masks are you? Is that what david icke told you to do?

Have you tried finding out why the rate is higher in NI? Or did that just seem to support your point so you instantly latched onto it mistakenly?

i haven’t seen a doctor or surgeon wearing an old rag/handkerchief/bandana around their gob,like a lot of folk are wearing!

Im sure masks from 50 yearsago wernt as good as they are now but surgeons still wore them - because masks stop germs better than no masks. And if every surgeon on the face of the earth for the last 80 years has been wearing a mask - lets not take the antimaskers too seriously.

I wonder how many antimaskers would demand the surgeon remove his mask - “Just breathe all over me mate - it says on facebook theyre no good anyway”

van tam and the other 2 goons whitty and the other one are on record saying as such

864

Franglais:
[.
Got any figures to support “far more”?

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telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/1 … ial-cases/

"Devastating’ situation for patients, as waiting lists set to rise further and medics fear that ‘more people will die who don’t need to’

ByLaura Donnelly, HEALTH EDITOR1 December 2021 • 12:01am

Up to 740,000 potential cancer cases that should have been urgently referred by GPs have been “missed” since the first lockdown, according to a damning report.

Watchdogs also warned that NHS waiting lists could keep growing until 2025 and even reach double the current six million.

Charities said the report by the National Audit Office (NAO) reflected a “devastating” situation for many patients, with medics warning of “the biggest cancer catastrophe ever to hit the NHS”.

MPs said the situation was likely to get worse before it gets better, with millions of patients who should have been referred for care during the pandemic now missing from waiting lists.

Waiting lists could reach 12 million by March 2025"

Etc.

865

JeffA:

stu675:
]FFS 600,000 died last year why don’t you care about all of them?

Lots of people died during the blitz of other causes too - does that mean the blitz was no big deal?

Was the average age of everyone who died in the blitz 83?

866

carryfast-yeti:
van tam and the other 2 goons whitty and the other one are on record saying as such

Here is Van Tam in January:
youtube.com/watch?v=ELt96shr3AM
“The Gov advice is to wear masks in indoor spaces and I agree with that”.

A month ago
walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-n … e-22051254
“Professor Jonathan Van-Tam told BBC Breakfast that wearing face masks is useful “but they are probably most useful when used in combination with other things”.
England’s deputy chief medical officer said that, outdoors, ventilation is the most important factor, but masks should be worn if others feel uncomfortable or if authorities ask a person to do so.
He added: “If you then went into an indoor setting, which involves food and drink, then it becomes very difficult because you don’t wear them at the table.”

thetimes.co.uk/article/covi … -k5rjvw0h6

867

stu675:

Franglais:
[.
Got any figures to support “far more”?

.

telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/1 … ial-cases/

"Devastating’ situation for patients, as waiting lists set to rise further and medics fear that ‘more people will die who don’t need to’

ByLaura Donnelly, HEALTH EDITOR1 December 2021 • 12:01am

Up to 740,000 potential cancer cases that should have been urgently referred by GPs have been “missed” since the first lockdown, according to a damning report.

Watchdogs also warned that NHS waiting lists could keep growing until 2025 and even reach double the current six million.

Charities said the report by the National Audit Office (NAO) reflected a “devastating” situation for many patients, with medics warning of “the biggest cancer catastrophe ever to hit the NHS”.

MPs said the situation was likely to get worse before it gets better, with millions of patients who should have been referred for care during the pandemic now missing from waiting lists.

Waiting lists could reach 12 million by March 2025"

Etc.

Firstly here is a House of Commons paper;
commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re … /cbp-7281/
The first graph clearly shows that waiting times have been increasing since about 2012.
There is then the sudden steep rise in 2020.
The next graphs show similar trends in A&E and failing standards in cancer care.
And then
“NHS staff numbers have increased during the pandemic. The number of hospital doctors was 10.6% higher in June 2021 than in June 2019, and the number of nurses was 7.5% higher. Meanwhile, bed capacity has fallen and is now 10% lower than a decade ago.”

So we have a background of a failing system.
For years under austerity Governments we have decreasing (as a proportion of GDP) investment. We are getting richer as a country, but investing less of our new wealth in health.
Yes, you can find little sections of improvement to shout about, but overall it isn`t good.

Now COVID comes along. What is a creaking health system gets a big kicking. No surprise it doesn`t do well.
No system would do well but an already overworked, under funded one? Not a chance.

So, whats to do?

“The Government is providing the NHS in England with an additional £8bn between 2022-23 and 2024-25 to support the recovery of elective care. With the extra funding, it expects the NHS to increase elective care activity in 2024-25 by 10 per cent more than its pre-pandemic plans.”
Now. Now its already too ■■■■■■■ late to help many the Gov are putting more funding in....... If we had a more resilient, better funded service the problem wouldnt have been so bad, that is why funds are now being found after all.
Of Course there would still have been an effect from COVID. No one is saying otherwise.
But kicking a Rolls Royce has less effect than kicking a rusty ole Leyland Maxi.
A system with a bit of slack in it costs money. We have had successive Govs telling us that the “NHS is safe in our hands”, weve voted them in. We were mugs enough to believe them. Now we can see the falsity of their promises isnt it time to look at some alternatives to what we have already had?

868

Franglais:
But kicking a Rolls Royce has less effect than kicking a rusty ole Leyland Maxi.

Servicing costs…

Of a Rolls-Royce are much more expensive than a Maxi.

id never have owned either of them anyway and the grammar police say theres a hypen in between the rolls and royce

869

yourhavingalarf:

Franglais:
But kicking a Rolls Royce has less effect than kicking a rusty ole Leyland Maxi.

Servicing costs…

Of a Rolls-Royce are much more expensive than a Maxi.

id never have owned either of them anyway and the grammar police say theres a hypen in between the rolls and royce

They R-R certainly are dearer. “You get what you pay for”
Having been sold a cheap rusty Leyland, should we be surprised it dissolves in a thunderstorm?
Maybe the salesman said…“youll be OK. It wont rain”. He`s a liar, but we foolishly chose to believe what is clearly untrue.

Sorry. For my slip, and Thanks for the gentle and polite correction.

870

JeffA:

Mazzer2:
As for masks do they work? Don’t they work? You can find research to back up your point of view whichever side of the arguement you’re on if you’ve nothing better to do with your time.
Northern Ireland currently has a higher infection rate than England yet has consistantly had stricter rules on masks. What can the great TN scientists conclude from this?

Hve you ever seen a doctor operate on someone without a mask? Masks obviously work. The next time someone you love has an operation you are going to run in and pull off their masks are you? Is that what david icke told you to do?

Have you tried finding out why the rate is higher in NI? Or did that just seem to support your point so you instantly latched onto it mistakenly?

There is no comparison between a surgeon wearing a mask in a sterile operating theatre to a member of the public wearing a mask in a supermarket.

871

JeffA:

Mazzer2:
As for masks do they work? Don’t they work? You can find research to back up your point of view whichever side of the arguement you’re on if you’ve nothing better to do with your time.
Northern Ireland currently has a higher infection rate than England yet has consistantly had stricter rules on masks. What can the great TN scientists conclude from this?

Hve you ever seen a doctor operate on someone without a mask? Masks obviously work. The next time someone you love has an operation you are going to run in and pull off their masks are you? Is that what david icke told you to do?

Have you tried finding out why the rate is higher in NI? Or did that just seem to support your point so you instantly latched onto it mistakenly?

Nice take what someone says and twist it I haven’t said whether I’m pro or anti mask just put it out there to see the reaction and you provided it not sure what David Icke has to do with it but hey nothing like jumping to the wrong conclusion.
You continually go on about doctors and operations but the public are not doctors and the vast majority have no understanding of sterile procedures as was plain to see when this first started and the amount of people wearing sterilised gloves. How many masks does a doctor go through in an operation? How long does the average member of the public keep their mask for? You are comparing a highly skilled person who has had sterile procedures as part of their training from day one. How much sterile procedure training have you had? As I said do they work don’t they work? Yes in the hands of people trained in sterile procedures in the hands of the public probably less so.
I wear a mask as and when i.e in an enclosed space with no one about no mask same space with people about wear a mask it’s not exactly rocket science unlike some on here would have you believe.
Just because someone offers a different opinion don’t automatically assume that they are at the nutcase end of the spectrum or that your opinion is the only one.

872

This just goes from the ridiculous to the sublime. :laughing:

We’ve got comparisons and analogies with the blitz. :laughing:

We’ve got inane stuff like …‘‘You don’t see Surgeons wearing snoods whilst operating’’ :laughing:

We have analogies and comparisons to Covid with holding a loaded gun to some bodies head… :open_mouth: :laughing: :laughing:

Ffs some of you lot are beyond help and well away with it. :laughing: :laughing:

Open your minds, open your eyes and look around to how things ACTUALLY are :bulb: instead of listening to official bodies telling you how things are as they want you to believe them to be (for whatever unknown reason.)

Nobody is denying Covid exists, certainly not me, but the gross exaggeration (again for whatever unknown reason) is blindingly obvious to the less gullible amongst us.

873

robroy:
This just goes from the ridiculous to the sublime. :laughing:

We’ve got comparisons with the blitz. :laughing:
We’ve got inane stuff like …‘‘You don’t see Surgeons wearing snoods whilst operating’’ :laughing:
We have analogies and comparisons to Covid with holding a loaded gun to some bodies head… :open_mouth: :laughing: :laughing:
Ffs some of you lot are beyond help and well away with it. :lol: :laughing:

Open your minds, open your eyes and look around to how things ACTUALLY are :bulb: instead of listening to official bodies telling you how things are as they want you to believe them to be (for whatever unknown reason.)

Nobody is denying Covid exists, certainly not me, but the gross exaggeration (again for whatever unknown reason) is blindingly obvious to the less gullible amongst us.

“Well away with it”? Says the man continually referencing 1984…
Shouting about loss of liberty when asked to wear a mask!
“They” are telling us XYZ !

If I do use exaggerated and extreme examples it is to point out the absurdity of those I am trying to counter.
Drama queens don`t react to sensible low key posts, they simply skip over them.

Now, what do you think is the “gross exaggeration”?
Have you or any of your sources any data showing that, for instance, the NHS are exaggerating? Or that the WHO figures are wrong? What data do you have access to that disproves what the NHS, WHO, and Govs of most of the world are talking about?
There are drama peddlars out there of course.

stu675:
Compared with a thousand children dying of all causes in the UK. Why are they all forgotten for the sake of 10, FFS I’m sure hundreds could have easily been prevented

Maybe it is you who is denying what is evident to those with access to data?
Do you think you get a better of the world through your windscreen, than SAGE experts, Doctors, and Nurses in hospitals get?

874

Franglais:

robroy:
This just goes from the ridiculous to the sublime. :laughing:

We’ve got comparisons with the blitz. :laughing:
We’ve got inane stuff like …‘‘You don’t see Surgeons wearing snoods whilst operating’’ :laughing:
We have analogies and comparisons to Covid with holding a loaded gun to some bodies head… :open_mouth: :laughing: :laughing:
Ffs some of you lot are beyond help and well away with it. :lol: :laughing:

Open your minds, open your eyes and look around to how things ACTUALLY are :bulb: instead of listening to official bodies telling you how things are as they want you to believe them to be (for whatever unknown reason.)

Nobody is denying Covid exists, certainly not me, but the gross exaggeration (again for whatever unknown reason) is blindingly obvious to the less gullible amongst us.

“Well away with it”? Says the man continually referencing 1984…
Shouting about loss of liberty when asked to wear a mask!
“They” are telling us XYZ !

If I do use exaggerated and extreme examples it is to point out the absurdity of those I am trying to counter.
Drama queens don`t react to sensible low key posts, they simply skip over them.

Now, what do you think is the “gross exaggeration”?
Have you or any of your sources any data showing that, for instance, the NHS are exaggerating? Or that the WHO figures are wrong? What data do you have access to that disproves what the NHS, WHO, and Govs of most of the world are talking about?
There are drama peddlars out there of course.

stu675:
Compared with a thousand children dying of all causes in the UK. Why are they all forgotten for the sake of 10, FFS I’m sure hundreds could have easily been prevented

Maybe it is you who is denying what is evident to those with access to data?
Do you think you get a better of the world through your windscreen, than SAGE experts, Doctors, and Nurses in hospitals get?

No data, links or you tube clips mate,.I’ve got far much more going on in my life to bother to find or read them, life is too short to fill your head with such stuff and pretend you are some kind of expert.
Have you actually read 1984?..cameras, constant surveillance to mention one aspect.
Sound familiar to today’s society?
I can categorically say I have never used the phrase ‘loss of liberty’ in terms of wearing a ■■■■ mask… ‘unnecessary’., ‘over the top’ …maybe.

Btw…we who you are ‘trying to counter,’ find you equally as absurd. :smiley:
Love the way YOU call ME a drama queen.
Somebody who just takes stuff in his stride rather than become obsessive bordering on neurotic, with minimal fuss, if I was more laid back I’d be horizontal…what about you Franglais?

875

robroy:
No data, links or you tube clips mate,.I’ve got far much more going on in my life to bother to find or read them

Say no more.

876

Franglais:

robroy:
No data, links or you tube clips mate,.I’ve got far much more going on in my life to bother to find or read them

Say no more.

Lol if only

877

Franglais:

robroy:
No data, links or you tube clips mate,.I’ve got far much more going on in my life to bother to find or read them

Say no more.

:smiley: Not ashamed of it nor apologetic either. :wink:
Concerning yourself about stuff you can do Jack ■■■■ about, and especially getting as obsessive as you about it, makes for a poor quality of life.

878

Mazzer2:

Franglais:

robroy:
No data, links or you tube clips mate,.I’ve got far much more going on in my life to bother to find or read them

Say no more.

Lol if only

I know…
But doubtless he will be back with his sum total of zero facts or information, and tell how we`re all wrong.
.
At least there is some better input, whatever their differing views, from those who do read around a subject.
(Take a bow Mr M) :smiley:

Bloody Hell !
He is giving life advice now too!
,

879

Covid exists, of that there is no doubt. Covid will kill some people, leave others with future problems and barely affect others. Masks certainly provide physiological succour to some, to others they provoke hostility. Various experts tell us that they work, other experts aren’t so sure.

IMO the biggest problem with Covid is mistrust. Covid appeared in a storm of lies and hysteria that is difficult to forget. We first saw footage of Chinese citizens falling down and dying midstep by the hundreds, we then saw the (in)famous pictures of Italian military trucks carting thousands of bodies away to God knows where. We in Britain had ice rinks commandeered as makeshift morgues and hospitals with fleets of fridge trailers in their car parks ready to deal with the deluge of bodies. We had the millions wasted on empty Nightingale hospitals. During all of this we’ve been bombarded with lurid and apocalyptic headlines warning of the end of civilisation as we know it.

None of that has come to pass and now Covid and reporting of it is treated with suspicion which is unfortunate and ultimately counterproductive. There has to come a point where collectively we say “it’s here, it’s not going to go away, some of us will die, this is the new normal so lets get back to living life in normality “.

880

Franglais:

Maybe it is you who is denying what is evident to those with access to data?
Do you think you get a better of the world through your windscreen, than SAGE experts, Doctors, and Nurses in hospitals get?

There is no data!
If the “data” is deaths “from any cause within 28 days (used to be 3 months) of a positive case”
If the data ignores deaths with co morbidities, ignores the age of those most at risk.
My experience of hospitals during the crisis was emptyness with doctors with nothing to do.
I had a positive PCR test over a year ago and subsequently has 3 positive antibody tests spread over the past 6 months (most recently over a year after my Covid infection) how come no one is interested in my data and everyone like me with proven natural immunity. Because there’s no money in it. Money in vaccinations, testing, masks, quarantine hotels. So no Covid pass for me.