Compulsory masks

LazyDriver:

Franglais:

LazyDriver:
‘many more double jabbed people are dying…’

Since the vast majority of the UK adult population has been double vaccinated, (45m* from a total pop of 66m) including I would expect, the most elderly and at risk, it would be truly bizarre if those hospitalised and dying from C19 weren`t vaccinated.
Is it to be expected that young fit people will be more likely to refuse the jab? Those who are most at risk will take it? So, comparing the two groups is…problematic…at the least.

I’m having a little trouble actually understanding this, but as the deaths prior to this placebo had an average age of 82.5y.o. Then if I understand it right, you’re saying nothing’s changed. Which begs the question, why? What has been acheived by getting injected? Other than the willingness to sign up to a registration of the world’s population but to what end?

Just a wild stab in the dark: a lower level of cases requiring medical intervention?

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

robroy:
‘‘HYSTERICAL reaction’’■■ :open_mouth: [emoji38]
Nothing tricky, but a slight exaggeration maybe.
No hysteria here mate, is this the ‘‘Fit me up’’ routine?
Old habits die hard or what? :wink: :smiley:

Fit me up routine?

You’re a walking cliche old lad

Too long away from civilised company

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

Monkey241:

robroy:
‘‘HYSTERICAL reaction’’■■ :open_mouth: [emoji38]
Nothing tricky, but a slight exaggeration maybe.
No hysteria here mate, is this the ‘‘Fit me up’’ routine?
Old habits die hard or what? :wink: :smiley:

Fit me up routine?

You’re a walking cliche old lad

Too long away from civilised company

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

I knew that would get a bite. :laughing: …Old lad. :neutral_face:

images.app.goo.gl/y5E7AVcf6fET3kiS9

LazyDriver:

Franglais:

LazyDriver:
‘many more double jabbed people are dying…’

Since the vast majority of the UK adult population has been double vaccinated, (45m* from a total pop of 66m) including I would expect, the most elderly and at risk, it would be truly bizarre if those hospitalised and dying from C19 weren`t vaccinated.
Is it to be expected that young fit people will be more likely to refuse the jab? Those who are most at risk will take it? So, comparing the two groups is…problematic…at the least.

I’m having a little trouble actually understanding this, but as the deaths prior to this placebo had an average age of 82.5y.o. Then if I understand it right, you’re saying nothing’s changed. Which begs the question, why? What has been acheived by getting injected? Other than the willingness to sign up to a registration of the world’s population but to what end?

Sorry, too late for me tonight to give a full and polite response.
Early start Monday!
.
But…why do you say placebo?
There are vaccines tested and approved by the WHO, NHS, and other national Govs.
Why say placebo?
Are the trials of these drugs flawed?
All the data from the trials (in the West at least) is there for peer review and criticism. All can be checked and double checked.
It isn’t a few nasty Big Pharma* companies publishing dodgy data!
.

*I am no fan of such.

robroy:

Monkey241:

robroy:
‘‘HYSTERICAL reaction’’■■ :open_mouth: [emoji38]
Nothing tricky, but a slight exaggeration maybe.
No hysteria here mate, is this the ‘‘Fit me up’’ routine?
Old habits die hard or what? :wink: :smiley:

Fit me up routine?

You’re a walking cliche old lad

Too long away from civilised company

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

I knew that would get a bite. [emoji38] …Old lad. :neutral_face:

images.app.goo.gl/y5E7AVcf6fET3kiS9

A bite?

Or a response?

It’s interesting how some people desperately need to portray the routine as a victory of some kind [emoji849].

If it was a bite it would be far clearer.

But if me ‘biting’ gives you solace, crack on. It can be your metaphor for a mask [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

Ffs man lighten up, :unamused: I bet you were a scream at ‘The Policeman’s Ball’’ :laughing:

robroy:
Ffs man lighten up, :unamused: I bet you were a scream at ‘The Policeman’s Ball’’ [emoji38]

Lighten up?

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

Monkey241:

Truckulent:

Franglais:

Truckulent:
Why stop at a mask? Why not insist on full PPE whenever interacting with anyone? That has also been proven to be even more effective than just a mask. In fact, include full PPE and 2m distancing whenever you interact with anyone. That would be miles better than just a mask and poor old Covid would be dead in the water…
You could even insist onnit between partners. They are after all amongst the most likely to infect you.

So what about the above? Any objection? More effective than the mask proposal for sure.

Good Idea!
The perfect solution for Drama Queens.

Just take a simple proportionate response and ramp it up to the nth degree.
What do you do for an encore? Claim a 0mph limit is much safer than a 30mph limit?
Say wearing seat belts is stupid because you aren`t wearing a crash hat and body armour?

Well yes exactly.

At what point do you stop? What is “acceptable risk”?

And why is mask wearing ok but not gloves and distancing and an apron as well?

The point is that risk is all around us.

My point here is this. Everyone has their own idea of acceptable risk. Just because yours is different to mine does not make you right and me wrong. Especially as there are many more things beyond your threshold we COULD do.

I’m happy without a mask thanks. It has served me well for 48 years. If you wish to wear one then that’s fine by me. Please do me the same courtesy.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Why?

Proportion.

Low level inconvenience and cost.

Yet still you whine.

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

My proportion is different to yours.

Doesn’t make you right and me wrong, as I said.

The most likely source of transmission is from family and friends. Do you wear your mask all the time with them? Small inconvenience still…But I bet you don’t…[emoji41]

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

msn.com/en-us/news/us/sesam … uxbndlbing

Now will you get vaccinated ■■? :sunglasses:

Truckulent:

Monkey241:

Truckulent:

Franglais:

Truckulent:
Why stop at a mask? Why not insist on full PPE whenever interacting with anyone? That has also been proven to be even more effective than just a mask. In fact, include full PPE and 2m distancing whenever you interact with anyone. That would be miles better than just a mask and poor old Covid would be dead in the water…
You could even insist onnit between partners. They are after all amongst the most likely to infect you.

So what about the above? Any objection? More effective than the mask proposal for sure.

Good Idea!
The perfect solution for Drama Queens.

Just take a simple proportionate response and ramp it up to the nth degree.
What do you do for an encore? Claim a 0mph limit is much safer than a 30mph limit?
Say wearing seat belts is stupid because you aren`t wearing a crash hat and body armour?

Well yes exactly.

At what point do you stop? What is “acceptable risk”?

And why is mask wearing ok but not gloves and distancing and an apron as well?

The point is that risk is all around us.

My point here is this. Everyone has their own idea of acceptable risk. Just because yours is different to mine does not make you right and me wrong. Especially as there are many more things beyond your threshold we COULD do.

I’m happy without a mask thanks. It has served me well for 48 years. If you wish to wear one then that’s fine by me. Please do me the same courtesy.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Why?

Proportion.

Low level inconvenience and cost.

Yet still you whine.

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

My proportion is different to yours.

Doesn’t make you right and me wrong, as I said.

The most likely source of transmission is from family and friends. Do you wear your mask all the time with them? Small inconvenience still…But I bet you don’t…[emoji41]

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

I don’t wear my mask at all at the moment [emoji6]

As for proportion ours do indeed differ.
You err on the margins of hysteria and paranoia. For me, that takes too much energy [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

Monkey241:

LazyDriver:

Franglais:

LazyDriver:
‘many more double jabbed people are dying…’

Since the vast majority of the UK adult population has been double vaccinated, (45m* from a total pop of 66m) including I would expect, the most elderly and at risk, it would be truly bizarre if those hospitalised and dying from C19 weren`t vaccinated.
Is it to be expected that young fit people will be more likely to refuse the jab? Those who are most at risk will take it? So, comparing the two groups is…problematic…at the least.

I’m having a little trouble actually understanding this, but as the deaths prior to this placebo had an average age of 82.5y.o. Then if I understand it right, you’re saying nothing’s changed. Which begs the question, why? What has been acheived by getting injected? Other than the willingness to sign up to a registration of the world’s population but to what end?

Just a wild stab in the dark: a lower level of cases requiring medical intervention?

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

Does this even need a response■■?

LazyDriver:

Monkey241:

LazyDriver:

Franglais:

LazyDriver:
‘many more double jabbed people are dying…’

Since the vast majority of the UK adult population has been double vaccinated, (45m* from a total pop of 66m) including I would expect, the most elderly and at risk, it would be truly bizarre if those hospitalised and dying from C19 weren`t vaccinated.
Is it to be expected that young fit people will be more likely to refuse the jab? Those who are most at risk will take it? So, comparing the two groups is…problematic…at the least.

I’m having a little trouble actually understanding this, but as the deaths prior to this placebo had an average age of 82.5y.o. Then if I understand it right, you’re saying nothing’s changed. Which begs the question, why? What has been acheived by getting injected? Other than the willingness to sign up to a registration of the world’s population but to what end?

Just a wild stab in the dark: a lower level of cases requiring medical intervention?

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

Does this even need a response■■?

Yes…if you thought about it logically.
Unfortunately no vaccine so far bestows eternal life.

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

Franglais:

LazyDriver:

Franglais:

LazyDriver:
‘many more double jabbed people are dying…’

Since the vast majority of the UK adult population has been double vaccinated, (45m* from a total pop of 66m) including I would expect, the most elderly and at risk, it would be truly bizarre if those hospitalised and dying from C19 weren`t vaccinated.
Is it to be expected that young fit people will be more likely to refuse the jab? Those who are most at risk will take it? So, comparing the two groups is…problematic…at the least.

I’m having a little trouble actually understanding this, but as the deaths prior to this placebo had an average age of 82.5y.o. Then if I understand it right, you’re saying nothing’s changed. Which begs the question, why? What has been acheived by getting injected? Other than the willingness to sign up to a registration of the world’s population but to what end?

Sorry, too late for me tonight to give a full and polite response.
Early start Monday!
.
But…why do you say placebo?
There are vaccines tested and approved by the WHO, NHS, and other national Govs.
Why say placebo?
Are the trials of these drugs flawed?
All the data from the trials (in the West at least) is there for peer review and criticism. All can be checked and double checked.
It isn’t a few nasty Big Pharma* companies publishing dodgy data!
.

*I am no fan of such.

Thank you for keeping it polite, as I have tried to too. The reason I referred to it as a placebo is, there was never a claim that any of these injections either prevented infection or transmission. The only claim, as Monkey puts it was it presented, ‘a lower level of cases requiring medical intervention’. Now, it appears that claim is also false, fake, or just made and repeated to induce some form of psychological response or treatment. I’m pretty sure that’s the purpose of a placebo.
Sorry, but it really does irk me that a potion that doesn’t vaccinate is referred to as a vaccination. In many discussions on this over the last year or so, the people who advocate it used polio & smallpox as comparables. I can’t ever remember being asked to take a ‘booster’ for either of these.

Franglais:
Is it to be expected that young fit people will be more likely to refuse the jab? Those who are most at risk will take it? So, comparing the two groups is…problematic…at the least.

The only comparison I’ve tried to make, is between pre & post injection campaign, using the entire population as the subject matter. I believe this to be a fair, simple and unproblematic one.

LazyDriver:

Franglais:

LazyDriver:

Franglais:

LazyDriver:
‘many more double jabbed people are dying…’

Since the vast majority of the UK adult population has been double vaccinated, (45m* from a total pop of 66m) including I would expect, the most elderly and at risk, it would be truly bizarre if those hospitalised and dying from C19 weren`t vaccinated.
Is it to be expected that young fit people will be more likely to refuse the jab? Those who are most at risk will take it? So, comparing the two groups is…problematic…at the least.

I’m having a little trouble actually understanding this, but as the deaths prior to this placebo had an average age of 82.5y.o. Then if I understand it right, you’re saying nothing’s changed. Which begs the question, why? What has been acheived by getting injected? Other than the willingness to sign up to a registration of the world’s population but to what end?

Sorry, too late for me tonight to give a full and polite response.
Early start Monday!
.
But…why do you say placebo?
There are vaccines tested and approved by the WHO, NHS, and other national Govs.
Why say placebo?
Are the trials of these drugs flawed?
All the data from the trials (in the West at least) is there for peer review and criticism. All can be checked and double checked.
It isn’t a few nasty Big Pharma* companies publishing dodgy data!
.

*I am no fan of such.

Thank you for keeping it polite, as I have tried to too. The reason I referred to it as a placebo is, there was never a claim that any of these injections either prevented infection or transmission. The only claim, as Monkey puts it was it presented, ‘a lower level of cases requiring medical intervention’. Now, it appears that claim is also false, fake, or just made and repeated to induce some form of psychological response or treatment. I’m pretty sure that’s the purpose of a placebo.
Sorry, but it really does irk me that a potion that doesn’t vaccinate is referred to as a vaccination. In many discussions on this over the last year or so, the people who advocate it used polio & smallpox as comparables. I can’t ever remember being asked to take a ‘booster’ for either of these.

Hmm…I can think of several vaccines that require boosters. Having had some of them it must be said that travel broadens the mind.
As for boosters not being discussed earlier… .almost like the idea that to a degree with this disease we’re learning as we go along.

You seem skeptical.
Why? Try and articulate what you think the end game is

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

LazyDriver:

Franglais:

LazyDriver:

Franglais:

LazyDriver:
‘many more double jabbed people are dying…’

Since the vast majority of the UK adult population has been double vaccinated, (45m* from a total pop of 66m) including I would expect, the most elderly and at risk, it would be truly bizarre if those hospitalised and dying from C19 weren`t vaccinated.
Is it to be expected that young fit people will be more likely to refuse the jab? Those who are most at risk will take it? So, comparing the two groups is…problematic…at the least.

I’m having a little trouble actually understanding this, but as the deaths prior to this placebo had an average age of 82.5y.o. Then if I understand it right, you’re saying nothing’s changed. Which begs the question, why? What has been acheived by getting injected? Other than the willingness to sign up to a registration of the world’s population but to what end?

Sorry, too late for me tonight to give a full and polite response.
Early start Monday!
.
But…why do you say placebo?
There are vaccines tested and approved by the WHO, NHS, and other national Govs.
Why say placebo?
Are the trials of these drugs flawed?
All the data from the trials (in the West at least) is there for peer review and criticism. All can be checked and double checked.
It isn’t a few nasty Big Pharma* companies publishing dodgy data!
.

*I am no fan of such.

Thank you for keeping it polite, as I have tried to too. The reason I referred to it as a placebo is, there was never a claim that any of these injections either prevented infection or transmission. The only claim, as Monkey puts it was it presented, ‘a lower level of cases requiring medical intervention’. Now, it appears that claim is also false, fake, or just made and repeated to induce some form of psychological response or treatment. I’m pretty sure that’s the purpose of a placebo.
Sorry, but it really does irk me that a potion that doesn’t vaccinate is referred to as a vaccination. In many discussions on this over the last year or so, the people who advocate it used polio & smallpox as comparables. I can’t ever remember being asked to take a ‘booster’ for either of these.

Types of COVID-19 vaccine

The COVID-19 vaccines currently approved for use in the UK are:

Moderna vaccine

Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine

Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine

Janssen vaccine (available later this year)

nhs.uk/conditions/coronavir … s-vaccine/

The NHS says these are vaccines.
Why do you think they aren’t?

.
You want to compare before and after vaccine a?
england.nhs.uk/statistics/s … l-archive/

Example from above
1st week Oct 2020 29,000 covid deaths in the UK
1st week Oct 2021 4,000 covid deaths.
Apart from vaccines what has changed?
.
And weren’t we far more restricted Oct 2020? Less death now in spite of moving around and mixing more.

The stats I would like are
% of unvaccinated in hospital
% of unvaccinated deaths
age ranges of the above
% of those who have confirmed covid twice in the above

I think those numbers would give us a better picture of what is happening

Perhaps taking a 10 day snapshot as that would be about 10 thousand patients as about 1000 are going into hospital each day

ROG:
The stats I would like are
% of unvaccinated in hospital
% of unvaccinated deaths
age ranges of the above
% of those who have confirmed covid twice in the above

I think those numbers would give us a better picture of what is happening

Perhaps taking a 10 day snapshot as that would be about 10 thousand patients as about 1000 are going into hospital each day

The ONS has got a massive data set.
Fully open to the public and with full explanations of definitions and methodologies.
What you want is almost certainly there.
.
But be very careful of said definitions.
When you are asking for percentages etc, be sure you truly understand what is being measured.
Remember Julia Hartley Brewer and her misunderstanding of false positives in covid tests? Even when her error was explained by David Spiegelhalter she still got it wrong.

Monkey241:

Truckulent:

Monkey241:

Truckulent:

Franglais:

Truckulent:
Why stop at a mask? Why not insist on full PPE whenever interacting with anyone? That has also been proven to be even more effective than just a mask. In fact, include full PPE and 2m distancing whenever you interact with anyone. That would be miles better than just a mask and poor old Covid would be dead in the water…
You could even insist onnit between partners. They are after all amongst the most likely to infect you.

So what about the above? Any objection? More effective than the mask proposal for sure.

Good Idea!
The perfect solution for Drama Queens.

Just take a simple proportionate response and ramp it up to the nth degree.
What do you do for an encore? Claim a 0mph limit is much safer than a 30mph limit?
Say wearing seat belts is stupid because you aren`t wearing a crash hat and body armour?

Well yes exactly.

At what point do you stop? What is “acceptable risk”?

And why is mask wearing ok but not gloves and distancing and an apron as well?

The point is that risk is all around us.

My point here is this. Everyone has their own idea of acceptable risk. Just because yours is different to mine does not make you right and me wrong. Especially as there are many more things beyond your threshold we COULD do.

I’m happy without a mask thanks. It has served me well for 48 years. If you wish to wear one then that’s fine by me. Please do me the same courtesy.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Why?

Proportion.

Low level inconvenience and cost.

Yet still you whine.

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

My proportion is different to yours.

Doesn’t make you right and me wrong, as I said.

The most likely source of transmission is from family and friends. Do you wear your mask all the time with them? Small inconvenience still…But I bet you don’t…[emoji41]

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

I don’t wear my mask at all at the moment [emoji6]

As for proportion ours do indeed differ.
You err on the margins of hysteria and paranoia. For me, that takes too much energy [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

Don’t be so silly.

Just a simple right to choose for yourself is all I ask.

A lot of of our forefathers fought some bloody battles to enable the above. I just want that to continue.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Truckulent:

Monkey241:

Truckulent:

Monkey241:

Truckulent:

Franglais:

Truckulent:
Why stop at a mask? Why not insist on full PPE whenever interacting with anyone? That has also been proven to be even more effective than just a mask. In fact, include full PPE and 2m distancing whenever you interact with anyone. That would be miles better than just a mask and poor old Covid would be dead in the water…
You could even insist onnit between partners. They are after all amongst the most likely to infect you.

So what about the above? Any objection? More effective than the mask proposal for sure.

Good Idea!
The perfect solution for Drama Queens.

Just take a simple proportionate response and ramp it up to the nth degree.
What do you do for an encore? Claim a 0mph limit is much safer than a 30mph limit?
Say wearing seat belts is stupid because you aren`t wearing a crash hat and body armour?

Well yes exactly.

At what point do you stop? What is “acceptable risk”?

And why is mask wearing ok but not gloves and distancing and an apron as well?

The point is that risk is all around us.

My point here is this. Everyone has their own idea of acceptable risk. Just because yours is different to mine does not make you right and me wrong. Especially as there are many more things beyond your threshold we COULD do.

I’m happy without a mask thanks. It has served me well for 48 years. If you wish to wear one then that’s fine by me. Please do me the same courtesy.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Why?

Proportion.

Low level inconvenience and cost.

Yet still you whine.

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

My proportion is different to yours.

Doesn’t make you right and me wrong, as I said.

The most likely source of transmission is from family and friends. Do you wear your mask all the time with them? Small inconvenience still…But I bet you don’t…[emoji41]

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

I don’t wear my mask at all at the moment [emoji6]

As for proportion ours do indeed differ.
You err on the margins of hysteria and paranoia. For me, that takes too much energy [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

Don’t be so silly.

Just a simple right to choose for yourself is all I ask.

A lot of of our forefathers fought some bloody battles to enable the above. I just want that to continue.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Do you have the right to choose what speed you drive past the school gates? No.
Your personal freedom is limited by the right to safety of others.
.
Talking of the sacrifices of lives by many, whilst complaining about wearing a bit of material over your face!! Really■■?