Another company gone to the Wall, or ‘Ceased Trading’ my text message said. that was 3 weeks ago, no wages, no redundancy, no holiday pay.
Then I read Local paper, and Same guy, Same address, different name has applied for Operators Licence. Unbelivable!
18 guys out of work, he starts again, its just wrong. No money to pay off debts, but enough money to start a new business.
Any thoughts, cos its starting to grind on me 
Kyp.
PS, did get another job, 3 days later, on more money, better terms, better truck.
Just sticks in the throat a bit.
I know what you mean, there’s a company near me that are working for peanuts, and I mean close on zero profit margin.
They under-cut our already keen prices to get the work off us. We won’t lower our prices to play their game, as we know they can’t sustain their prices forever, we’ll get the work back when they fold.
Well guess what, they did fold. An employee of theirs had taken them to a tribrunal over something, and was awarded £11k payout. They folded.
And suprise suprise, the trucks never stopped working, they were back in business the very next day, same operator, same trucks, same low prices.
But now their VAT debt is written off, their diesel supplier has taken a hit and the tribrunal guy won’t see his money.
So they’re still doing the work at an un-sustainable price. How long til they go bang again?
S.M.S spring to my mind Mr marsh is running another outfit there’s plenty of em out there, although the circumstances of SMS were a little different, but same script
I thought directors of bankrupt companies were banned from being a company director for some time afterwoulds? - At least a year surely?
In an industrial tribunal claim, should a claim be made on the basis of a company director’s unlawful behaviour, then the compensation might be charged to them, with the shortfall being plundered from company funds to replenish their own pocket?
Clearly the director should then be joining Azil Nadir in jail for defrauding their own company! 
Personally, I can’t understand how mickey mouse firms get any kind of credit line that enables them to run up debts with suppliers in the first place?
With individual members of the public being routinely told by banks “we’re only letting you have a paid-up card” when their finances are bad (no income, overdrawn), how come firms can start up and go bust at will without some kind of legal effect on the directors? 
If they are bankrupt then they will have a family member as director quite often. I once worked for a firm where the boss was bankrupt but he had his daughter as the director, he always had the final word though.
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Yeah. Know a few companies like that. Cycle around the family as directors, company secretaries etc until they’re all barred. Until then running up debt after debt and only just staying afloat paying drivers late or slow and stuff
Worked on a training wage for a company like that. Zb money but if I quit dole office said no money for 6 weeks
Perhaps I should have walked sooner but I was young and inno… well, more innocent than I am now 
If you don’t want them to start up again, then object on the grounds they went bust last time (and contact the local RHA and ask them to do the same).
The traffic commissioners generally don’t allow phoenix companies to hold O licences…the applicant will have to prove there is no link between the old and new.
BTW I am still owed £3500 by a (non transport) company that went bust and started up again in 2009. I did get the Administrator disciplined for gross misconduct, but he was only fined £1000.
And the OP should be able to reclaim at least some of his cash from the Redundancy Payments Office. You need to contact the Administrator/Receiver of the old company. If no administrator/receiver was appointed then they still owe you the money.
When the recession hit, one local haulier owed us £30k+. Part of the blame should’ve fallen on the company credit controller for not “putting him on stop”. He’d undercut us for a large muckshift, tipping at our landfill and coupled with a bad paying customer and the fact he’d bought a new Hini “'cos they’re cheap” he was stuffed in no time. He restarted with one truck but none of the local quarries and plant firms will give him work or let him have an account. Harsh, yes but it sends out a message.
Saratoga:
Yeah. Know a few companies like that. Cycle around the family as directors, company secretaries etc until they’re all barred. Until then running up debt after debt and only just staying afloat paying drivers late or slow and stuffWorked on a training wage for a company like that. Zb money but if I quit dole office said no money for 6 weeks
Perhaps I should have walked sooner but I was young and inno… well, more innocent than I am now
That is what happened with the Olivers, they had an ongoing issue with the TC and systematically got banned
The solution to all this is to have company directors forwarding their own personal credit ratings in order to be directors of a company. 
That way, if you put mickey mouse names down as directors, they’ll either be “poor credit” which means nothing will be achieved by it (you’ll have no credit line), or “good credit” in which case they’ll refuse to be put down - 'cos it would damage THEIR personal credit if something later happened to the wider company! 
“Ltd” has got a lot to answer for. Starting a business should be easier but riskier in that there’s less red tape BUT your liability limitation can’t be used to shield a bent director from hiding their personal assets from the company receivers. It boils my blood when I see a bust company and the ex-directors are still living in flash pads with their flash cars untouched by any kind of comeback for the suppliers and staff who all got shafted!
Redundancy from Government is still nil below 2 years service, so 2 years seems to be the optimum time for a company to run up debts, go bust, then recyle anew as a “phoenix” business that isn’t prevented despite the same old names appearing on company house forms! 
Most of the time, the Directors set up a new company with slightly different name a few months before the company goes bust.
ie XYZ Logistics Ltd go bust, new company starts a XYZ Logistics Group Ltd
Then before shutting down the original company they transfer or sell (for a very small fee) the assets to the new company and tell their customers they are making changes to their company structure and the company name is changing, plus new bank accounts etc. Some staff get transferred to the new firm, some don’t.
Seen it many times…!!
If you’re concerned about your firm - check out Company Check & Director Check on the net, look up your company & directors, see if a new firm has been set up recently etc, see the value / assets / liabilities of the current firm - very helpful
Herongate:
Then before shutting down the original company they transfer or sell (for a very small fee) the assets to the new company and tell their customers they are making changes to their company structure and the company name is changing, plus new bank accounts etc. Some staff get transferred to the new firm, some don’t.
Sounds suspiciously like PRE-PACK!!!
Ross.
Were the same mugs still there, to give fule,oil,tyres .spares…the work and ho yes to drive them
fuse:
Were the same mugs still there, to give fule,oil,tyres .spares…the work and ho yes to drive them
When a large north east container haulier went skint recently, they re-started the next week with a new O licence etc but before long they went ‘pop’ again with the boss (same as old boss) claiming he couldn’t keep afloat as he found it very difficult to get the credit he needed to run his business. BIG SURPRISE!!!
So, he goes sking owing everyone (including HMRC) then starts up again expecting all his former surpliers (still with sore fingers!!) to extend him the same credit terms as before!!! I believe it was the HMRC that finally closed this bloke down because they wouldn’t extend his payment period as their ‘burned fingers’ were still sore!!
Ross.
bigr250:
Herongate:
Then before shutting down the original company they transfer or sell (for a very small fee) the assets to the new company and tell their customers they are making changes to their company structure and the company name is changing, plus new bank accounts etc. Some staff get transferred to the new firm, some don’t.Sounds suspiciously like PRE-PACK!!!
Ross.
That’s exactly what the company I was referring to did.
They registered a new company 6 months before the original company went pop.
Suddenly Auto Recovery Services Ltd becomes Auto Recovery Services 2011 Ltd overnight, same trucks, same drivers, same management.
(Mods, This info is readily available from Companies House).
There’s only two real choices. Grin and bear the chancers that deliberately run up debts (some will just be well-intentioned idiots not suited for business) or make directors personally liable for debts. Problem with the latter is no-one will want to set up on their own.
Own Account Driver:
There’s only two real choices. Grin and bear the chancers that deliberately run up debts (some will just be well-intentioned idiots not suited for business) or make directors personally liable for debts. Problem with the latter is no-one will want to set up on their own.
I say make directors personally liable myself, there are some firms in our area that are working on the same job i was doing 5 years ago and yes they are doing the same loads for less money! even with fuel costs as they are today
there are also some that have gone bang only to start up again on the same work as before, which they cut the rates in the first place
if directors had to liable for debts there would be less firms working for peanuts in the first place!
There’s something you guys who have posted are missing out on. Unless you have cash assets of hundreds of thousands of pounds (and a lot of companys dont) then you will be running up a credit tab with your suppliers, whilst waiting for payment from your clients. It only takes one of them to stall in the chain and it can wind you up in the winding up arena !!! Thats why TC’s let directors start up again when they have had a company go bang. If there was nothing underhand/malicious on the directors part then yes they can start up again, it almost makes sense…they already have the know how, the contacts etc… Of course this is a bitter pill to swallow for anyone who has lost money to them, and maybe the answer is to not to anymore work than you can afford to lose. If so we’d almost work and live in an exchange economy. We don’t. We live in a credit based economy, right from the top to the bottom.
The fact is if you can’t pay your bills tomorrow when your creditors want paying then you can be closed down. Doesn;t matter if you won the euro millions and you’re getting paid out next year, if you can’t pay when they want then your out of the game. Not something thats wasted on those who control the ‘cash’ (or should i say credit) flow.
There we have it.
Gambling is clearly more honest, and a lot safer than starting up a business. Being crooked gives an edge to some, but it is a sad day now that “Captains of Industry” are nothing more than “the most able crooks” in this land where true creativity (not creative accounting!) is punished, whilst Bullcrap Ltd. is encouraged.
If I approached a bank to get funding for the extraction of Gold from seawater, I wouldn’t get a look in - merely because the gold is not realised in a short space.
If I approached a bank to get funding for an office, office furniture, and phone setups so I could become “a debt advisor” - they’d probably throw money at me, providing it was to be spent on something “within the penpusher economy” rather than attempting to make some raw materials into a finished product which is where banks SHOULD be throwing the money!
Wheel Nut:
Saratoga:
Yeah. Know a few companies like that. Cycle around the family as directors, company secretaries etc until they’re all barred. Until then running up debt after debt and only just staying afloat paying drivers late or slow and stuffWorked on a training wage for a company like that. Zb money but if I quit dole office said no money for 6 weeks
Perhaps I should have walked sooner but I was young and inno… well, more innocent than I am now
That is what happened with the Olivers, they had an ongoing issue with the TC and systematically got banned
Oliver’s,the same ones who tried to start up as revilo?
Been seeing Olivers pulling fridges as I do the scotch run so I wonder what’s happening there and wherever it’s the same shower.