Coming In Under Your WTD Average 48

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Who manages to stay within the 48 hour average working week stipulated within the working time directive for road transport?

I have just started a new job, gone up from 7.5t to a 40t drawbar outfit for a local company. Having been there a week and a half now, I know its very early days for working out your average working week, as the reference period is a rolling 26 weeks.

However, having had a good look at the schedules, both for other drivers and myself, I have a good idea of how many drops etc are expected per day, and can’t see how I will ever land up in accordance with the WTD.

It pays a fixed rate per week, and the contract doesnt specifiy hours, so I can only assume they are basing it on a 48hr average working week. But the majority of the days have been at least 12 hours, and a few 14-15’s. To do 48 in a week, you will need three 10 hours and two 9 hour days for example.

I know it is an ‘average’ over 26 weeks, and the WTD states you can work a maximum of 60 in any working week. But if I have too many 12 and 14hr days, then I am going to be looking at such a headache, trying to work out how to bring it back down, in later weeks.

To compound the problem, the schedules are designed by a customer of the company, not the haulage company itself, so (although I havent asked) I assume they (my company) will have very little ability to fiddle things around to shorten the days, and also be less willing to, as they pay me the same whatever, and are trying to keep their customer happy.

What are the penalties for not working in accordance with the WTD? Are they as harsh as the EU drivers hours rules? Who enforces them?

Is the onus on the driver or the employing company to sort it out? If its the former, does it just mean having to put your foot down and taking a hard line with the company.

I do realise its early days, and it may straighten itself out, but i’m not running bent for anyone and this includes such practices at leaving it on POA or break at customers or depots, when I am actually in fact I am loading/securing the vehicle and it is other work.

I know a lot of the other drivers at the company just do POA or break when loading to bring themselves in under the WTD, but as I get paid the same regardless, why should I put myself out just to cover up for the company, I will end up working even longer days this way, as I have that many spare hours being freed up by fake POA. No way.

It seems having spoken to most of the drivers, that knowledge of the drivers hours rules is limited, particularly that of the Apr 07 changes. One of them thought the crossed hammers was only to be used for mechanical breakdown and left the tacho on POA the rest of the time.

Advice appreciated folks, particularly those who are struggling or have done in the past, with a similar situation.

2

the wtd is not there for you it is to give …i can not say no more wtd is a farce
and should be ditched now and lower hors built in to tacho rules with no loss of earnings

3

With POA and breaks I think it is harder to exceed the 48 hour average than anything else. You say to get 48 hours you would need 3x10 hour days and 2x9 hour but it is only working time which counts toward the average so the shifts could be longer. An hour ago I left my time sheet for this week in the transport office and there are 89 hours booked on it. However by the time breaks/POA are taken into consideration it is a nice WTD compliant week of 47.25 hours.

4

How did you get that Neil i thought you could only rack up 84 hours max?

5

Coffeeholic:
With POA and breaks I think it is harder to exceed the 48 hour average than anything else.

I’m exceeding it every week! :open_mouth: I’ve even exceeded the 60 hrs working time on a couple of ocassions - and I should know better :blush:

We don’t really have any POA unless we are double-manned, and so the only time taken off the day is 45 mins or 1.5 hrs depending on driving time. As far as I am aware, it is up to your employer to keep a record of your working hours, although how they are getting ours down is a mystery! I’ve seen my tacho records in their downloaded form and I’m close to 60hrs (just working time) every week. As you say - actual shift time is always more anyway. I’m expecting to have to take several days off at some point.

6

Depends on your line of work I would imagine. Those guys who go to supermarket RDC’s day in day out delivering the main item those RDC’s deal with in box trailers, you will spend a lot of time, sat in the cab, in a queue (for a period of time apparently known in advance) or being loaded on a bay, clocking up a nice amount of POA.

For me, the only time I can use POA, is when waiting on the road outside for someone to clear the bay I need, or when queueing for the drop-off depot, of which a lot of the time is used to undo the straps/load restraints, roll them up and stow them, thus is other work.

I totally agree about ditching the WTD, in favour of incorporating the points into the EU drivers rules, having two separate pieces of legislation for the same thing seems rather odd (and yes I know the drivers hours rules are concerned with driving hours and rest periods only, and the WTD is concerned with all working hours excluding POA, but there could still be something worked out to implement both into the same)

7

Mike-C:
How did you get that Neil i thought you could only rack up 84 hours max?

5x15 + 1x 14 hour days using the split daily rest system. I’ve been on the Holyhead - Dublin or Dublin - Holyhead ferry every day this week so that is at least a 4 hour rest period every day to go with my 9 hours each night.

8

I wouldn’t be particularly fussed about exceeding it, but as all my contract says about hours is 0000 Monday until 2400 Friday, or something like that, then the WTD is all I have in order to regulate the hours I do for the pay.

It’s ultimately for my own interests, I have no wish to spend every waking hour inside the cab. Getting home with just over an hour to get dinner sorted, have a shower and chill for a bit before having to think about getting a decent nights sleep. Is quite frankly a joke.

I also dont subscribe to the line of, if you dont like it, go and work in an office. It should not be assumed that all truck drivers wish to subscribe to a life on the road Monday to Friday.

9

WildGoose:
Depends on your line of work I would imagine. Those guys who go to supermarket RDC’s day in day out delivering the main item those RDC’s deal with in box trailers, you will spend a lot of time, sat in the cab, in a queue (for a period of time apparently known in advance) or being loaded on a bay, clocking up a nice amount of POA.

For me, the only time I can use POA, is when waiting on the road outside for someone to clear the bay I need, or when queueing for the drop-off depot, of which a lot of the time is used to undo the straps/load restraints, roll them up and stow them, thus is other work.

I totally agree about ditching the WTD, in favour of incorporating the points into the EU drivers rules, having two separate pieces of legislation for the same thing seems rather odd (and yes I know the drivers hours rules are concerned with driving hours and rest periods only, and the WTD is concerned with all working hours excluding POA, but there could still be something worked out to implement both into the same)

agree, i do loads of r.d.c etc work and im now if im waiting 4 hrs i only book 1 hr break out of that as im only booking 30 odd hrs a week working time , so now trying to boost it up nearer the 48 mark

10

WTD :question: did i miss something :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

11

coffeholic did you get paid for 89 hours

12

fuse:
coffeholic did you get paid for 89 hours

Knowing Neil, I don’t imagine him doing it for free :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

13

if wtd is only for hours worked how is po availability not counted availability used to mean available if you are available you are there .you are at work you can not go for a pint you can not go to a football match you are at work for god sake we have been conned well some of you have

14

Mate of mine working on agency for Innovate was told that POA was going to be abolished - in fact Innovate HAVE abolished it now and their drivers only get 48 hours per week…

15

fuse:
coffeholic did you get paid for 89 hours

Not quite. We are deducted 45 minutes per day for break so in fact I will be paid 84.5 hours. We only get deducted the 45 minutes regardless of the amount of break we actually have, which is just as well as there were 5-6 hours of break each day. All POA is also paid as break and POA are the same thing really.

16

this wtd it is good for you cr…p was to con drivers into working longer akward hours without getting correct pay for it. i think it was better years ago with log books if you were on for a good company i think we done a 12 hour spread and that was it .sorry i will keep saying it we should be only doing 38 hours drive 2 hours other work and no loss of pay

17

coffeholic am i getting this right were you ther at work in some form if you were i would expet to get paid 84 hours but i think this defeats the safety aspect

18

fuse:
if wtd is only for hours worked how is po availability not counted availability used to mean available if you are available you are there .you are at work you can not go for a pint you can not go to a football match you are at work for god sake we have been conned well some of you have

Totally agree with you fuse if you are at work you are at work no matter what you are doing & should be paid accordingly.

Anyyone sat in an RDC or similar & not getting paid for it want’s there head testing in my opinion.

19

haven’t booked any POA yet, and no intention of doing so.
48 hours a week is enough for me, I have a life at home.
Notice my bosses only manage to do 40.
If it’s good enough for him …!

20

fuse:
coffeholic am i getting this right were you ther at work in some form if you were i would expet to get paid 84 hours but i think this defeats the safety aspect

I was at work for 89 hours last week and will be paid for 84.5 as we are deducted 45 minutes break per day - total for 6 days - 4.5 hours. I don’t have a problem with this deduction as not many jobs pay you during your lunch break. Of those 89 hours, 47.5 were actual work - Driving or Other Work - with the other 41.5 hours comprising of Breaks/Rest/POA.