Derf:
OK, I get the weight thing with trucks, but what was the point of a chinese 6 coach chassis such as the Bedford VAL?
to many coaches at that time were having front wheel blow outs jeh
I thought it has something to do with length of body, my parents had coaches and we had 41 or 45 seater Duple’s and the only 52 seaters then where the VAL’s - we had both Duple and the later Plaxton VAL’s which where definitely longer.
Bedford VAL 6x2 Twin Steer Chinese Six Motorcoach and Bus.
It’s actually been explained several times in previous posts on this thread as to why and how the Bedford VAL
Motorcoach and Bus model was developed and entered production
From 1961 new regulations for motor vehicles allowed buses and mototcoaches to be built to a maximum 36 feet in length,and rather instead of developing heavy duty components for the increased weight of these
motorcoaches,and to save on expense,Bedford developed the 36 ft long VAL using existing components.
To take in to account the increase in weight and length,the Leyland O.400 131 BHP diesel engine was chosen,as was a 6x2 twin steer layout - this layout compensated for the non-heavy duty steering axles that were used which together could comfortably cope with the increased weight.
The Bedford 466 CID engine replaced the Leyland engine in late 1967.
So far as the Bedford VAL Motorcoach and Bus is concerned,which was introduced in September 1962,there
was,and is,nothing new under the sun : Leyland introduced the Gnu 6x2 Twin Steer Motorcoach and Bus
models in 1937…and later came out with the one-off Panda 6x2 Bus,with underfloor engine,in 1940:-
rigsby:
that sounds like pete o’leary john . he was mechanic for turner bros when i worked for them . top notch bloke , set up on hie own about the time turners packed up . i think he came from alstonfield or thereabouts , cheers , dave
Hiya Dave…i knew he was a mechanic. yes top bloke i,ve been trying to remember his name for the site but had to give in and ask.
thanks Dave
John
Correct, it was Pete (now sadly departed) and he also worked for Barlow and Hodgkinson as a fitter. He also ran an S80 Foden chinese six, his sister Monica is married to David Massey who has the wagons at Longcliffe.
Would I be right in thinking,prior to Testing and Plating,if a steer axle was added to a 14ton GVW chassis it then became an 18ton GVW chassis.But if a twin wheeled trailing or double drive axle was added the GVW was increased to 20tons.I could be wrong but I seem to also recall that a trailing axle Albion Reiver was only 18ton GVW but the double drive was 20ton GVW.Cheers Bewick.
Stanfield:
During the 60s the Dodge tipper seemed to be a popular lorry to be converted to the chinese six configuration.The company I served my time with had two on there fleet one had the perkins 6.354 engine and the other was fitted with a Leyland 350 engine.The 1st picture was one of James Bacons fleet who were based in the Manchester area.6430 Other marques that also used the chinese six configuration A Fletcher & Co Ibstock- GUY-521
I can recall those Commer Maxi Load steers of Alston Foundry staying at Durose Cafe in the late 60’s early 70’s,one of their drivers was a pal of the first driver I employed.They used to deliver castings to the West Midlands and load back with either Foundry sand from Bromsgrove or Scrap for re smelting.Cheers Bewick.
You will remember Duros from your trailamating day with Possy and him going up to the Mile House pub for a pint and a game of cards. All our yesterday,s Denis
Leyland 680:
You will remember Duros from your trailamating day with Possy and him going up to the Mile House pub for a pint and a game of cards. All our yesterday,s Denis
Aye those were the days Frank,but I never played cards or went near the bandits with Possy,we did play cards on the bonnet of the Octopus both stationary and on the move ! I used to both deal and sort Possys hands out,he always moaned that he could never win many many hands when we were mobile!! Cheers Dennis.
poor old peter , i didn’t know he worked for barlows , he must have had a good pair of roller skates pete , i didn’t think barlows stopped long enough to get a spanner on them . i remember jimmy buxton telling me he had done a cornwall with the tank and got back about 7pm , barlow chucked him an order number with the words "get off when you’ve had your tea , its got to be in paisley for 8am " . cheers , dave
rigsby:
poor old peter , i didn’t know he worked for barlows , he must have had a good pair of roller skates pete , i didn’t think barlows stopped long enough to get a spanner on them . i remember jimmy buxton telling me he had done a cornwall with the tank and got back about 7pm , barlow chucked him an order number with the words "get off when you’ve had your tea , its got to be in paisley for 8am " . cheers , dave
Hi Dave, going ‘off topic’ slightly but Peter told me when he was at Barlow’s and they were running Perkins engined Dodges they had a visit from a rep trying to sell them a diesel engine compression tester. The gaffer asked Pete to remove some injectors from a Dodge parked in the yard and the rep proceeded to install the tester. Failing to gain a satisfactory reading he asked Mr Barlow if the engine actually ran! His reply was that “Of course it runs, it has been to Essex and it now has a load of flints on for the Potteries”! The poor chap packed the tester back in its box and left with the comment “You don’t need this”. Pete swore that the tale was true, seems feasible enough to me.
Kev73:
Did the change in regulations in '68 make these chinese six convertions
illegal? or was it just too costly to convert and meet the regulations?
Did it also mean convertions made prior to that date had to me taken off the road?
or just modified?
hiya Erf/Foden/ AEC /Atkinson was usually built in house, it was on lighter weight lorries that had a second axle fitted usually.
Lorries from the makes mentioned was all built to order. the likes of Dodge Ford Commer and Bedford was mass built then converted
later, i don’t think there was any problem,s with the Plating system that stopped them been used primrose had a good name.
i would think it was the use of pallets that sort of phased out the twin steer. before pallets drivers would load to the headboard
hence putting the weight onto the front axle. when pallets was put into use you could take a pallet from the front to lighten the
load at the headboard. you still see twinsteers if a Hiab is fitted behind the cab or some other plant equipment.
John
in the late 60s i drove a foden s21 twin steer , it was a long wheelbase 4 wheeler new and went back to fodens to have the extra axle fitted , it had a deadman brake fitted , but being fodens they never put brakes on the second axle . it carried 10 tons legal with a bit to spare . cheers , dave
Bewick:
Would I be right in thinking,prior to Testing and Plating,if a steer axle was added to a 14ton GVW chassis it then became an 18ton GVW chassis.But if a twin wheeled trailing or double drive axle was added the GVW was increased to 20tons.I could be wrong but I seem to also recall that a trailing axle Albion Reiver was only 18ton GVW but the double drive was 20ton GVW.Cheers Bewick.
More or less correct depending on the original gross weight of the chassis design. For example, a 12-tons gvw Leyland Comet with a second steer axle fitted became 16-tons gvw. A 14-tons Leyland Super Comet with a second steer added became 18-tons gvw. A York, Boys, or Primrose trailing axle added became 18-tons gvw and 20-tons gvw respectively.
When 16-tons gvw rigids were introduced in 1965/66 the need for twin-steer rigids rapidly diminished and when Testing & Plating was introduced in 1969 the new regulations for parking brakes on 2 axles out of 3 meant that most twin-steer conversations were condemned as they could not meet the new regulations.
Bewick:
Would I be right in thinking,prior to Testing and Plating,if a steer axle was added to a 14ton GVW chassis it then became an 18ton GVW chassis.But if a twin wheeled trailing or double drive axle was added the GVW was increased to 20tons.I could be wrong but I seem to also recall that a trailing axle Albion Reiver was only 18ton GVW but the double drive was 20ton GVW.Cheers Bewick.
More or less correct depending on the original gross weight of the chassis design. For example, a 12-tons gvw Leyland Comet with a second steer axle fitted became 16-tons gvw. A 14-tons Leyland Super Comet with a second steer added became 18-tons gvw. A York, Boys, or Primrose trailing axle added became 18-tons gvw and 20-tons gvw respectively.
When 16-tons gvw rigids were introduced in 1965/66 the need for twin-steer rigids rapidly diminished and when Testing & Plating was introduced in 1969 the new regulations for parking brakes on 2 axles out of 3 meant that most twin-steer conversations were condemned as they could not meet the new regulations.
Thanks for that well explained explanation “gingerfold” Cheers Bewick.
I drove an old ERF Chinese six for John Jordan the flour millers of Broom near Biggleswade in the early 60s. It had a 5-pot Gardener and a 5-speed box. If you had two drops of flour and a tight spot to get into for the second drop, the old Armstrong power steering sure built your muscles up.
These configurations never caught on in Aus.
Operators running that close to the edge went to a pusher or lazy axle.
Something like this Beaver from an old Leyland book makes me scratch my head, what a dreadful concept.
Must be quite an early model, 600 or 680 engine and the old 6+1 box but where did they put the battery box?
Perhaps it went 2x12v instead of the usual 4x6v, and no chassis room left for a spare wheel carrier.
It does have maxi brakes on the 2nd steer though.
cargo:
These configurations never caught on in Aus.
Operators running that close to the edge went to a pusher or lazy axle.
Something like this Beaver from an old Leyland book makes me scratch my head, what a dreadful concept.
Must be quite an early model, 600 or 680 engine and the old 6+1 box but where did they put the battery box?
Perhaps it went 2x12v instead of the usual 4x6v, and no chassis room left for a spare wheel carrier.
It does have maxi brakes on the 2nd steer though.
I’am not 100% sure but I think the batteries fit in front of the n/s front wheel behind the wheel step on this model.
Bewick:
Would I be right in thinking,prior to Testing and Plating,if a steer axle was added to a 14ton GVW chassis it then became an 18ton GVW chassis.But if a twin wheeled trailing or double drive axle was added the GVW was increased to 20tons.I could be wrong but I seem to also recall that a trailing axle Albion Reiver was only 18ton GVW but the double drive was 20ton GVW.Cheers Bewick.
More or less correct depending on the original gross weight of the chassis design. For example, a 12-tons gvw Leyland Comet with a second steer axle fitted became 16-tons gvw. A 14-tons Leyland Super Comet with a second steer added became 18-tons gvw. A York, Boys, or Primrose trailing axle added became 18-tons gvw and 20-tons gvw respectively.
When 16-tons gvw rigids were introduced in 1965/66 the need for twin-steer rigids rapidly diminished and when Testing & Plating was introduced in 1969 the new regulations for parking brakes on 2 axles out of 3 meant that most twin-steer conversations were condemned as they could not meet the new regulations.
Thanks for that well explained explanation “gingerfold” Cheers Bewick.
I agree good explanation a lot of points I had forgotten about.
This has brought back memories, we had a BMC with a primrose trailing axle, two Super Comets with Boys trailing axles, a Clydesdale with a York trailing axle & a Lynx with a Primrose mid self steer. I remember the Boys axles were worst for traction & the shackle pins used to wear out very quickly. When the big bushes were worn in the York from the rear it looked as if you had a bent axle as the two sides were independent of each other.
We had a Bedford S-type with Boys third axle and-Oh, No!- a Perkins R6.
As most of our work was agricultural, any amount of rain would result in a tractor being brought into play to get the thing onto a hard road, whereupon that unreliable engine would promptly let you down!
The next six-wheeler was a bit better, a Guy with 6LW Gardner which was terribly slow, but at least it had the benefit of a diff lock, and it didn’t break down every few days.
: Leyland introduced the Gnu 6x2 Twin Steer Motorcoach and Bus
Cheers Dennis.
Pete swore that the tale was true, seems feasible enough to me. 
