Once you’re back in the yard your journey has ended and you’re not on the public highway so free to pull the card as far as I’m concerned
Edit…not disputing what tachograph is saying btw, just my take on it. I had typed the above before I saw tachograph’s reply!
Looks like they’ve got a vacancy for a yard shunter there, card out at gate, you clock out and go home, shunter takes over, everyone’s happy.
burnley-si:
dieseldog999:
so what do you tell vosa when your pulled in and they ask where the missing milage went in the middle of your shift?..is what your describing not just standard practice for the cowboys and classed as tipping/loading off card?..or have I read the post wrong.i used to do it plenty when I had the misfortune to work for Tosco/sains agency stuff,but that was to suit myself when I couldn’t be bothered stopping,and someone else was on the truck after me…its not in the middle of his shift is it
apologies,i misread it…i thought it was when he was messing in scouseland…so wheres the prob,run back for 9 hours,then pull the card,and do the mesing offcard…someone else will be on the truck later,plus the shunter etc,so who cares■■?
Reef:
oh and it wouldn’t be a couple of K’s on the tacho head as someone else suggested would it? It’d be a couple of tenths of a K at most (does that even register?)
Depends on the size of the yard. Looking at Google Maps, at my spot from hitting the gate to fuelling up, dropping the trailer on the trailer park and getting back to the truck ■■■■■■■■■■■■ is 1.5km. And yes they would measure 1/10th of a km.
Iceman, our Portbury night trunk is like your Liverpool to Glasgow one - if you get a good run you can get there in 4h20m but if you get held up you’re stuffed. Usually by the time you’ve done the driving around at the start, at the changeover and back at the yard you’re at 9h 5min or something like that. What our spot does is book it as 10hr drive double break shift and only schedule you for it a max 2 nights a week.
Your company if they’re a responsible one shouldn’t be scheduling a run that tight as a 9hr drive one.
Rentadent:
Just pull the card if it gets that tight, it’s at the end of your shift and the ‘missing mileage’ will barely be
noticeable anyway.
+1…how hard would that be if your working in reality land. and then between the shunter,and the dayshift driver,then who can possibly say where the km went…pull it,and forget it,then deny it…end of.
My lorry is analogue, so tomorrow when I’m using it in the yard to move some screened material around, do you advise using it without a chart in (manual entry, noting mileage) or stick a chart in and make a note of “out of scope”?
It’ll need to be out by 9am so I can start at 6am on Monday. 
dieseldog999:
Rentadent:
Just pull the card if it gets that tight, it’s at the end of your shift and the ‘missing mileage’ will barely be
noticeable anyway.+1…how hard would that be if your working in reality land. and then between the shunter,and the dayshift driver,then who can possibly say where the km went…pull it,and forget it,then deny it…end of.
+2 but only if it suits you, not because the TM tells you to, If you don’t fancy another drive up to Glasgow the next day than go in to your ten hours and have a short run on your next shift, happy days
so a quick one for the experts seeing as the o/p seems to have his answer,
every other saturday i leave my keys with the gateman and a fella comes in to steam my truck off, he gets the keys moves the truck across the site so its over the drain and steam cleans it, he then puts it back in my space and gives the keys back to the security man, this has gone on for the last 18 months and on anologue i wasnt overly concerned but i,ve now switched to digital and not quite sure how to go on with the truck moving
chaversdad:
so a quick one for the experts seeing as the o/p seems to have his answer,every other saturday i leave my keys with the gateman and a fella comes in to steam my truck off, he gets the keys moves the truck across the site so its over the drain and steam cleans it, he then puts it back in my space and gives the keys back to the security man, this has gone on for the last 18 months and on anologue i wasnt overly concerned but i,ve now switched to digital and not quite sure how to go on with the truck moving
Nothing to worry about for you. You’re not at work so its not your concern. The OP’s only worry if he ejects his card is that the truck will still record the movement and the time of the movement and if thats seconds after he’s ejected the card it will be obviously whats been going on, even if not entirely possible to prove days, weeks or months after the event who did it. Your truck on the other hand maybe doesn’t move for several hours after you’ve finished and won’t look in the slightest bit suspicious.
tachograph:
theiceman1978:
I mainly do trunking work from Glasgow to Liverpool. It can be done in under 9 hours but its very tight so if you get held up for whatever reason (roadworks,rta etc) then you run over your 9 and into a ten.
The other night I arrived back at the yard and was at the security barrier with 8hrs and 54 minutes driving time that day. By the time I had driven to a spare bay,backed in,unhooked and moved to where the units get parked I had then used 9hrs and 4 minutes. I had also had this scenario earlier in the week so I had no more 10hr days left. When I was downloading my card I told the TM I couldnt do that run anymore this week as it cant be risked. He was not amused (not angry or Pd off,just sighing and shaking his head). He then asked why I didnt take my card out at the gate THEN unhook trailer etc as this would have preserved a 10hr driving shift for another night.
I told him that couldnt be done as I was still driving. He then said it was because you dont need a card to drive on private ground and as long as you are not on a public highway. If vosa(or whatever they are called this week) enter the yard,it is legal as long as the card is still in when entering the yard if they happen to be there.
I told him I thought this was incorrect as I was still driving and working and that rule only applies if using a tractor unit for shunting etc. He then told me,in a nutshell, your wrong. It was 0615am and I was in no mood to argue as my bed was calling so I just said ok and left.
Can anyone shed any light on the law regarding this? If it is 100% legal then I would rather preserve a ten hour day rather than waste one for the sake of 4 minutes driving but if its illegal,or even if its a grey area,then I will accept the fact a 10hr driving day is gone.Can I emphasise clearly that I NEVER drive with no tacho card in place,no matter what a company tells me,and never will. I just want to know before I see this guy again with a similer story
It’s not for me to say whether or not you should pull your card at the gate but it would be illegal and your TM is talking rubbish.
When you return to the yard and go to a bay you’re still in-scope of EU regulations, if any part of a journey involves driving on public roads the whole journey is in-scope of EU regulations, driving from the gate to the bay is part of the same journey, just as driving from the bay to the gate is when you start the trip.
I would have to agree with tacho on this, up to the point of backing onto the bay after coming in from the highway is all within scope of e.u. regs.
Now once that trailer is dropped that journey has ended, so the driving of the unit around the yard could be done “out of scope” as the vehicle is not going to go back onto the highway.
robinhood_1984:
chaversdad:
so a quick one for the experts seeing as the o/p seems to have his answer,every other saturday i leave my keys with the gateman and a fella comes in to steam my truck off, he gets the keys moves the truck across the site so its over the drain and steam cleans it, he then puts it back in my space and gives the keys back to the security man, this has gone on for the last 18 months and on anologue i wasnt overly concerned but i,ve now switched to digital and not quite sure how to go on with the truck moving
Nothing to worry about for you. You’re not at work so its not your concern. The OP’s only worry if he ejects his card is that the truck will still record the movement and the time of the movement and if thats seconds after he’s ejected the card it will be obviously whats been going on, even if not entirely possible to prove days, weeks or months after the event who did it. Your truck on the other hand maybe doesn’t move for several hours after you’ve finished and won’t look in the slightest bit suspicious.
but i,m an owner driver so surely i have to show who has been driving the truck, albeit for only 0.5km?
chaversdad:
but i,m an owner driver so surely i have to show who has been driving the truck, albeit for only 0.5km?
Ah. I really have no idea how much being the owner will complicate things here as you’re probably responsible for keeping records for all movements where as an employed driver is only responsible for his own. I still doubt it matters though. Trucks get moved around in yards all the time without issue.
dieseldog999:
+1…how hard would that be if your working in reality land. and then between the shunter,and the dayshift driver,then who can possibly say where the km went…pull it,and forget it,then deny it…end of.
What a fantastic idea. I’m sure that someone will say they did the missing mileage that occurred seconds after you pulled your card which was recorded in the tacho head as “Driving without card”…There’s no way that DVSA could possibly use that to insinuate you drove on the road without a card when you’ve got 10 minutes of “driving without card” on the tacho…
absolutely correct…since theres no offence of being on the wrong side if a insinuation,and anyone with brains would slow down a bit coming near the yard,and crawl for a tad before pulling it to make it look like your at the end of a normal journey…if its not your truck,and your an employee at end of shift,then once your card is out,its not your prob. the shunter could be using it,or the next driver,the transport manager could be using it as a mobile love nest to scuttle his favourite jobsworth driver in,or who cares ,so long as its not your card that’s in it. when im on paper cards,ive a set for each side of the ferry , the hundreds of missing miles unnacountable every week for are not my prob.seeing as ive yet to use my proper name on the Belfast/larne ferries anyway,so no trace.you get asked a few stupid beancounter questions,followed by the threat that itl be looked into .then nobody cares,if vosa want to make waves and go for a prowl,then the cards are missing and its a 1 hit offence for non producing,which is always easier than a few thousand dodgy cards…welcome to the land of reality where insinuating,knowing and proving are all different things. 
Conor:
dieseldog999:
+1…how hard would that be if your working in reality land. and then between the shunter,and the dayshift driver,then who can possibly say where the km went…pull it,and forget it,then deny it…end of.What a fantastic idea. I’m sure that someone will say they did the missing mileage that occurred seconds after you pulled your card which was recorded in the tacho head as “Driving without card”…There’s no way that DVSA could possibly use that to insinuate you drove on the road without a card when you’ve got 10 minutes of “driving without card” on the tacho…
don’t you know dd99 is a professional driver who knows that he’s well above the regulations, the type of driver every company wants, the sort of super hero that knows how to squeeze that extra mile and min and we wonder why the job is so ferked
robinhood_1984:
The OP’s only worry if he ejects his card is that the truck will still record the movement and the time of the movement and if thats seconds after he’s ejected the card it will be obviously whats been going on, even if not entirely possible to prove days, weeks or months after the event who did it. Your truck on the other hand maybe doesn’t move for several hours after you’ve finished and won’t look in the slightest bit suspicious.
Hmm in retrospect, that’s a good point, good enough in fact to make me reconsider my original opinion on it… I think I was still in analogue mode tbh.
A couple of points. How big is your yard if you’re generating kms from the gate to bay to park? Would you prefer to park outside the yard for 45 before using the extra hour for the sake of 4 mins? Just to be 100% legal.
As far as being legal is concerned, as long as you cannot be held directly responsible for the vehicle being driven without card you’re safe, unlike constantly driving 4 mins over your legal time which will be recorded.
To me it boils down to wether you like doing that job or want off it & put on something else.
BillyHunt:
Would you prefer to park outside the yard for 45 before using the extra hour for the sake of 4 mins? Just to be 100% legal.
That’s not the OP’s point, he is saying that he has exceeded 9hrs driving (therefore using up one of his 10’s for the sake of 4 minutes)
Nothing to do with reaching the end of a 4.5hr driving period so sitting outside for 45 doesn’t enter into this case 
What is the definition of - journey?
The definition of a journey is :
journey
noun
1.
an act of travelling from one place to another. ? 
? 
.
verb
verb: journey; 3rd person present: journeys; past tense: journeyed; past participle: journeyed; gerund or present participle: journeying
1.
travel somewhere.
“they journeyed south”
Amazing how so many people do a " Lifes Journey " 
these days ,… how hip… woopey - doo. 
( rumour has it, Limey phil is in the transitional state ¬ ). 
suppose really you are still working so the card should be in, but personally I would have pulled it at the gate, so as to save myself a ten for the friday journey. only think is that driving without card showing up on a regular basis would leave you open for a bit of vaseline treatment from the gestapo.all this out of scope talk is wrong,thats ok aslong as your off road` all day/night, but cannot be used just to suit your hours running out.
