I mainly do trunking work from Glasgow to Liverpool. It can be done in under 9 hours but its very tight so if you get held up for whatever reason (roadworks,rta etc) then you run over your 9 and into a ten.
The other night I arrived back at the yard and was at the security barrier with 8hrs and 54 minutes driving time that day. By the time I had driven to a spare bay,backed in,unhooked and moved to where the units get parked I had then used 9hrs and 4 minutes. I had also had this scenario earlier in the week so I had no more 10hr days left. When I was downloading my card I told the TM I couldnt do that run anymore this week as it cant be risked. He was not amused (not angry or Pd off,just sighing and shaking his head). He then asked why I didnt take my card out at the gate THEN unhook trailer etc as this would have preserved a 10hr driving shift for another night.
I told him that couldnt be done as I was still driving. He then said it was because you dont need a card to drive on private ground and as long as you are not on a public highway. If vosa(or whatever they are called this week) enter the yard,it is legal as long as the card is still in when entering the yard if they happen to be there.
I told him I thought this was incorrect as I was still driving and working and that rule only applies if using a tractor unit for shunting etc. He then told me,in a nutshell, your wrong. It was 0615am and I was in no mood to argue as my bed was calling so I just said ok and left.
Can anyone shed any light on the law regarding this? If it is 100% legal then I would rather preserve a ten hour day rather than waste one for the sake of 4 minutes driving but if its illegal,or even if its a grey area,then I will accept the fact a 10hr driving day is gone.
Can I emphasise clearly that I NEVER drive with no tacho card in place,no matter what a company tells me,and never will. I just want to know before I see this guy again with a similer story
I think this sort of thing came up recently with a driver who was based in a quarry
The journey out of the quarry and back to the quarry was under EU regs but peeing about in the quarry was not under EU regs and the driver could select - out of scope
I believe you are entirely correct in your views. As to whether or not you take the card out for your own benefit is up to you. I often used to go to work late on a Sunday night and sleep in the truck to avoid having to get up early on Monday from home and inevitably be late. The yard could be quite noisy from 2am onwards so if starting at 5 or 6 for example I used to drive the truck around the yard to a quiet bit with no card in. Illegal? Yes. Did I worry too much about something so small and irrelevant? No.
If I were you in your situation and you were going to run over a 9hr whilst on the yard, I’d record the whole thing rather than eject the card and then write on the back that you ran over due to time consuming shunting at end of shift. When the “offence” occurred you’d be off the public highway so even the most pedantic jobsworth would have trouble claiming you were any sort of risk and a menace to society for over running by the same amount of time it takes to boil a kettle.
so what do you tell vosa when your pulled in and they ask where the missing milage went in the middle of your shift?..is what your describing not just standard practice for the cowboys and classed as tipping/loading off card?..or have I read the post wrong.i used to do it plenty when I had the misfortune to work for Tosco/sains agency stuff,but that was to suit myself when I couldn’t be bothered stopping,and someone else was on the truck after me…
dieseldog999:
so what do you tell vosa when your pulled in and they ask where the missing milage went in the middle of your shift?..is what your describing not just standard practice for the cowboys and classed as tipping/loading off card?..or have I read the post wrong.i used to do it plenty when I had the misfortune to work for Tosco/sains agency stuff,but that was to suit myself when I couldn’t be bothered stopping,and someone else was on the truck after me…
I agree about not pulling the card but to use OUT OF SCOPE which means no mileage is missing and does not count as driving but as other work
dieseldog999:
so what do you tell vosa when your pulled in and they ask where the missing milage went in the middle of your shift?..is what your describing not just standard practice for the cowboys and classed as tipping/loading off card?..or have I read the post wrong.i used to do it plenty when I had the misfortune to work for Tosco/sains agency stuff,but that was to suit myself when I couldn’t be bothered stopping,and someone else was on the truck after me…
dieseldog999:
so what do you tell vosa when your pulled in and they ask where the missing milage went in the middle of your shift?.
It’s at the end of his shift
I would do whatever suits you, not the TM, if it’s to your advantage to pull your card when you are through the gate then do it, there would be only a couple of K’s unaccounted for which can be classed as shunting
I understood it being at the end of shift. Vosa aren’t expecting every single km to be accounted for. A shunt in the yard isn’t exactly a heinous crime. Depending on your tacho you will have not used your entire driving hours during the day
Talking of driving in a quarry, I was under the impression that if any part of the day involved using public roads, then any off road driving counts as driving time. I thought using out of scope would be if the driver spent all day in the pit, using his lorry as a dumper?
ROG:
I think this sort of thing came up recently with a driver who was based in a quarry
The journey out of the quarry and back to the quarry was under EU regs but peeing about in the quarry was not under EU regs and the driver could select - out of scope
I think I remembered that correctly
If any part of the shift includes in-scope driving, doesn’t then the whole thing have to be recorded as such, including on private land?
ROG:
I think this sort of thing came up recently with a driver who was based in a quarry
The journey out of the quarry and back to the quarry was under EU regs but peeing about in the quarry was not under EU regs and the driver could select - out of scope
I think I remembered that correctly
If any part of the shift includes in-scope driving, doesn’t then the whole thing have to be recorded as such, including on private land?
TBH I’d have pulled the card at the gate and then next shift manually entered 15 mins other work (you do not need to specify what the other work was remember!)
Mr DVSA man will just assume that the 15 mins was you being a good boy and logging your paperwork filling out time, oh and it wouldn’t be a couple of K’s on the tacho head as someone else suggested would it? It’d be a couple of tenths of a K at most (does that even register?)
ROG:
I think this sort of thing came up recently with a driver who was based in a quarry
The journey out of the quarry and back to the quarry was under EU regs but peeing about in the quarry was not under EU regs and the driver could select - out of scope
I think I remembered that correctly
Are you sure about that ROG or do you have any links to the case you’ve mentioned.
From drivers hours Regulations.
Note: Driving time includes any off-road parts of a journey where the rest of that journey is made on the public highway. Journeys taking place entirely off road would be considered as ‘other work’.
Out of Scope Working Rules
Out of scope driving is driving that takes place on roads which are not the public highway. All driving done out of scope does not count towards your driving time and instead counts as other work.
Note — If you drive for any amount of time on a public highway, then all driving you for the remainder of that day will count as driving, even if it is off road.
theiceman1978:
I mainly do trunking work from Glasgow to Liverpool. It can be done in under 9 hours but its very tight so if you get held up for whatever reason (roadworks,rta etc) then you run over your 9 and into a ten.
The other night I arrived back at the yard and was at the security barrier with 8hrs and 54 minutes driving time that day. By the time I had driven to a spare bay,backed in,unhooked and moved to where the units get parked I had then used 9hrs and 4 minutes. I had also had this scenario earlier in the week so I had no more 10hr days left. When I was downloading my card I told the TM I couldnt do that run anymore this week as it cant be risked. He was not amused (not angry or Pd off,just sighing and shaking his head). He then asked why I didnt take my card out at the gate THEN unhook trailer etc as this would have preserved a 10hr driving shift for another night.
I told him that couldnt be done as I was still driving. He then said it was because you dont need a card to drive on private ground and as long as you are not on a public highway. If vosa(or whatever they are called this week) enter the yard,it is legal as long as the card is still in when entering the yard if they happen to be there.
I told him I thought this was incorrect as I was still driving and working and that rule only applies if using a tractor unit for shunting etc. He then told me,in a nutshell, your wrong. It was 0615am and I was in no mood to argue as my bed was calling so I just said ok and left.
Can anyone shed any light on the law regarding this? If it is 100% legal then I would rather preserve a ten hour day rather than waste one for the sake of 4 minutes driving but if its illegal,or even if its a grey area,then I will accept the fact a 10hr driving day is gone.
Can I emphasise clearly that I NEVER drive with no tacho card in place,no matter what a company tells me,and never will. I just want to know before I see this guy again with a similer story
It’s not for me to say whether or not you should pull your card at the gate but it would be illegal and your TM is talking rubbish.
When you return to the yard and go to a bay you’re still in-scope of EU regulations, if any part of a journey involves driving on public roads the whole journey is in-scope of EU regulations, driving from the gate to the bay is part of the same journey, just as driving from the bay to the gate is when you start the trip.
