Can't get my head round weekly rest

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
41

Harry Monk:
As to whether this complies with the Working Time Directive, I’m not entirely sure, none of us take any notice of that to be honest. :wink:

:laughing: :laughing:

42

NewLad:
I see what your saying but it was holiday on both sunday nights doesn’t that count as work for WTD perposes?

This is my fixed agreed “rota” with work although the sundays will usually be worked and not holidays it would then be illegal wouldn’t it?? I’m getting soooo confused at the moment!

Week 3 I don’t do any driving but don’t I still have to make up for the rest I reduced? Do you see what Im saying?

Statutory holiday counts as 8 hours per day or 48 hours per complete week for the RT(WT)R but counts as rest for the EU driving regulations, so the Sundays were rest days as far as diving rules are concerned.

Because you had regular weekly rest periods in weeks 1 and 2 there was no compensation to pay back in week 3.

If you normally finish work at 06:00 on Saturday and start work again at 22:00 on Sundays you’re having 40 hours weekly rest periods in both weeks 1 and 2 which if you’re driving to EU regulations in both of those weeks would not be legal, I’m not sure how harshly a VOSA bod would look upon it given the amount of driving you’re doing but it is illegal, you need to get another 5 hours in one of the weeks to make a 45 consecutive hours rest period.

edit: If you could start after midnight on Sunday of week 3 (after the 63 hour rest) the schedule would be legal because the 63 hours rest could count as a 45 hour weekly rest period for week 1 and compensation for week 2.

43

I think I understand as I dont need to worry about weekly rest in week 3 because of there being no driving in week 3

44

NewLad:
I think I understand as I dont need to worry about weekly rest in week 3 because of there being no driving in week 3

I think its the working week that’s confusing you, don’t count to Midnight Sunday if you are off work and this means Driving and any other work then your rest continues.

Your week starts on any day and time you come back after a weekly rest.

45

I found more reduced weekly rests hidden in this…

NewLad:
Week 1
Sunday 30/09 22:00 start 06:15 finish (working in the warehouse)
Monday 01/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 02/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday Rest Day (22hrs away from work)
Thursday 04/10 04:00 start 17:35 finish (DRIVING)
28 hours off = another reduced weekly rest
Friday 05/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Saturday Rest Day

Total Rest 36hrs

Week 2
Sunday 07/10 Holiday
Monday 08/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 09/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday Rest Day (22 hrs away from work)
Thursday 11/10 04:00 start 13:05 finish (DRIVING)
32 hours off = another reduced weekly rest
Friday 12/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Saturday Rest Day

Total Rest 36hrs

Week 3
Sunday 14/10 Holiday
Monday 15/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 16/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday 17/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Thursday 18/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Friday Rest
Saturday Rest

Total Rest 63.75hrs

Start over with week 1

Saturday Rest Day

46

ROG:
I found more reduced weekly rests hidden in this…

NewLad:
Week 1
Sunday 30/09 22:00 start 06:15 finish (working in the warehouse)
Monday 01/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 02/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday Rest Day (22hrs away from work)
Thursday 04/10 04:00 start 17:35 finish (DRIVING)
28 hours off = another reduced weekly rest
Friday 05/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Saturday Rest Day

Total Rest 36hrs

Week 2
Sunday 07/10 Holiday
Monday 08/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 09/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday Rest Day (22 hrs away from work)
Thursday 11/10 04:00 start 13:05 finish (DRIVING)
32 hours off = another reduced weekly rest
Friday 12/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Saturday Rest Day

Total Rest 36hrs

Week 3
Sunday 14/10 Holiday
Monday 15/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 16/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday 17/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Thursday 18/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Friday Rest
Saturday Rest

Total Rest 63.75hrs

Start over with week 1

Saturday Rest Day

I’m guessing that all this means there is no way I can drive where I work as my rest is all over the place, however there are drivers at my place who will have 2 days off in one week like myself like work Sunday, Monday, Tuesday off Weds, work Thursday and Friday off on Saturday then the next week will be off 2 days together

47

Harry, most of what you say is true, but not wanting to rain on your parade, you can have two reduced weekly rest periods in a row, as long as they are not in the same fortnight/ two weekly period. You can do 45, then 24, in the first two weeks, then 24 ,then 45 in the next two weeks, you still have to pay back the reduced time by the end of the third week following, This is on the VOSA website but I don’t know how to post a link, I am sure someone can.

Sapper

48

NewLad:
I think I understand as I dont need to worry about weekly rest in week 3 because of there being no driving in week 3

Spot on

The company really need to get to grips with the rules for EU driving weekly rests

As others have already said - you cannot have any fortnight where reduced weekly rests have been counted for both weeks of that fortnight

Looking at your shift pattern then the only way to do it would be to always drive in week 3 as that has both fri & sat off making for a full weekly rest but then to drive in either week 1 or week 2 but not both

49

NewLad:

ROG:
I found more reduced weekly rests hidden in this…

NewLad:
Week 1
Sunday 30/09 22:00 start 06:15 finish (working in the warehouse)
Monday 01/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 02/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday Rest Day (22hrs away from work)
Thursday 04/10 04:00 start 17:35 finish (DRIVING)
28 hours off = another reduced weekly rest
Friday 05/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Saturday Rest Day

Total Rest 36hrs

Week 2
Sunday 07/10 Holiday
Monday 08/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 09/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday Rest Day (22 hrs away from work)
Thursday 11/10 04:00 start 13:05 finish (DRIVING)
32 hours off = another reduced weekly rest
Friday 12/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Saturday Rest Day

Total Rest 36hrs

Week 3
Sunday 14/10 Holiday
Monday 15/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 16/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday 17/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Thursday 18/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Friday Rest
Saturday Rest

Total Rest 63.75hrs

Start over with week 1

Saturday Rest Day

I’m guessing that all this means there is no way I can drive where I work as my rest is all over the place, however there are drivers at my place who will have 2 days off in one week like myself like work Sunday, Monday, Tuesday off Weds, work Thursday and Friday off on Saturday then the next week will be off 2 days together

You have Thursday 28 as Rog says, then Saturday- Sunday, then again thursday then Sat-Sun, then fri.-Sat. there is no problem there.
Thats without bothering about driving or not.

Two separate days in one week and then two together the next is perfectly legal and you don’t have to worry about payback.

50

aranger:
You have Thursday 28 as Rog says, then Saturday- Sunday, then again thursday then Sat-Sun, then fri.-Sat. there is no problem there.
Thats without bothering about driving or not.

Two separate days in one week and then two together the next is perfectly legal and you don’t have to worry about payback.

Perhaps you could point out to us where the two days off amount to 45 consecutive hours in weeks 1 or 2 ?

51

tachograph:

aranger:
You have Thursday 28 as Rog says, then Saturday- Sunday, then again thursday then Sat-Sun, then fri.-Sat. there is no problem there.
Thats without bothering about driving or not.

Two separate days in one week and then two together the next is perfectly legal and you don’t have to worry about payback.

Perhaps you could point out to us where the two days off amount to 45 consecutive hours in weeks 1 or 2 ?

Saturday off, Sunday off.

Same week 2-3.

52

NewLad:
I’m guessing that all this means there is no way I can drive where I work as my rest is all over the place, however there are drivers at my place who will have 2 days off in one week like myself like work Sunday, Monday, Tuesday off Weds, work Thursday and Friday off on Saturday then the next week will be off 2 days together

Those extra reduced weekly rest periods make no difference to the situation, as I said before you need to either add an extra 5 hours onto one of the 40 hour rest periods or if you can extend the 63 hour rest period so that it crosses over into Monday morning by a couple of minutes it will all be legal.

Would you be allowed to start after midnight on the Sunday after the 63 hour rest period, if you can it will solve the problem for you.

53

aranger:

tachograph:

aranger:
You have Thursday 28 as Rog says, then Saturday- Sunday, then again thursday then Sat-Sun, then fri.-Sat. there is no problem there.
Thats without bothering about driving or not.

Two separate days in one week and then two together the next is perfectly legal and you don’t have to worry about payback.

Perhaps you could point out to us where the two days off amount to 45 consecutive hours in weeks 1 or 2 ?

Saturday off, Sunday off.

Same week 2-3.

But he’s not having the whole of Saturday and Sunday off, he’s finishing at 06:00 Saturday morning and usually starting again at 22:00 Sunday which only amounts to 40 hours in weeks 1 and 2.

Week 3 is irrelevant unless he can extend the rest period past midnight into week 1 of the next 3 week sequence.

54

tachograph:

aranger:

tachograph:

aranger:
You have Thursday 28 as Rog says, then Saturday- Sunday, then again thursday then Sat-Sun, then fri.-Sat. there is no problem there.
Thats without bothering about driving or not.

Two separate days in one week and then two together the next is perfectly legal and you don’t have to worry about payback.

Perhaps you could point out to us where the two days off amount to 45 consecutive hours in weeks 1 or 2 ?

Saturday off, Sunday off.

Same week 2-3.

But he’s not having the whole of Saturday and Sunday off, he’s finishing at 06:00 Saturday morning and usually starting again at 22:00 Sunday which only amounts to 40 hours in weeks 1 and 2.

Week 3 is irrelevant unless he can extend the rest period past midnight into week 1 of the next 3 week sequence.

Never knew he said that, looking at that his usual days off are Friday-Saturday but as he had a holiday it allowed him to work Friday, week 3 no holiday back on track.

55

tachograph:

NewLad:
I’m guessing that all this means there is no way I can drive where I work as my rest is all over the place, however there are drivers at my place who will have 2 days off in one week like myself like work Sunday, Monday, Tuesday off Weds, work Thursday and Friday off on Saturday then the next week will be off 2 days together

Those extra reduced weekly rest periods make no difference to the situation, as I said before you need to either add an extra 5 hours onto one of the 40 hour rest periods or if you can extend the 63 hour rest period so that it crosses over into Monday morning by a couple of minutes it will all be legal.

Would you be allowed to start after midnight on the Sunday after the 63 hour rest period, if you can it will solve the problem for you.

I wouldn’t think it would be a problem they would just ask me to make up the time within that week so I could finish at 08:15 rather than 06:15 my work place are being really flexible with my hours at the minute just don’t want to ■■■■ them off by saying oh I got it wrong I now need 2 days off together every other week (as everyone at my place wants Friday night off) if I push them too much they might tell me to forget it, and I really want the experience.

56

aranger:
Never knew he said that, looking at that his usual days off are Friday-Saturday but as he had a holiday it allowed him to work Friday, week 3 no holiday back on track.

8th post in this page.

This is my fixed agreed “rota” with work although the sundays will usually be worked and not holidays it would then be illegal wouldn’t it??

The original example with the Sunday holidays was sorted out several posts back and it was all legal :wink:

57

aranger:

tachograph:

aranger:

tachograph:

aranger:
You have Thursday 28 as Rog says, then Saturday- Sunday, then again thursday then Sat-Sun, then fri.-Sat. there is no problem there.
Thats without bothering about driving or not.

Two separate days in one week and then two together the next is perfectly legal and you don’t have to worry about payback.

Perhaps you could point out to us where the two days off amount to 45 consecutive hours in weeks 1 or 2 ?

Saturday off, Sunday off.

Same week 2-3.

But he’s not having the whole of Saturday and Sunday off, he’s finishing at 06:00 Saturday morning and usually starting again at 22:00 Sunday which only amounts to 40 hours in weeks 1 and 2.

Week 3 is irrelevant unless he can extend the rest period past midnight into week 1 of the next 3 week sequence.

My usual rest day is a Wednesday, I work nights so have the Wednesday off to drive on a Thursday then back in on the Friday night

Never knew he said that, looking at that his usual days off are Friday-Saturday but as he had a holiday it allowed him to work Friday, week 3 no holiday back on track.

58

WTD was mentiond earlier and I do not believe you have anything to worry about on that score because the warehouse work days are under the normal WTD and only the driving days are under the RTD

WTD and RTD are not added together and WTD (not RTD) can be completely opted out of by an individual

I think that is correct for your situation but am prepared to be corrected

59

NewLad:

aranger:

tachograph:

aranger:

tachograph:

aranger:
You have Thursday 28 as Rog says, then Saturday- Sunday, then again thursday then Sat-Sun, then fri.-Sat. there is no problem there.
Thats without bothering about driving or not.

Two separate days in one week and then two together the next is perfectly legal and you don’t have to worry about payback.

Perhaps you could point out to us where the two days off amount to 45 consecutive hours in weeks 1 or 2 ?

Saturday off, Sunday off.

Same week 2-3.

But he’s not having the whole of Saturday and Sunday off, he’s finishing at 06:00 Saturday morning and usually starting again at 22:00 Sunday which only amounts to 40 hours in weeks 1 and 2.

Week 3 is irrelevant unless he can extend the rest period past midnight into week 1 of the next 3 week sequence.

My usual rest day is a Wednesday, I work nights so have the Wednesday off to drive on a Thursday then back in on the Friday night

Never knew he said that, looking at that his usual days off are Friday-Saturday but as he had a holiday it allowed him to work Friday, week 3 no holiday back on track.

You only have 22 on a Wednesday, its Thursday to Friday thats your rest, drop one Friday or Start Early Monday morning one week.

Giving you Thursday-Saturday. Thursday-Saturday-Sunday.

60

tachograph:

NewLad:
I’m guessing that all this means there is no way I can drive where I work as my rest is all over the place, however there are drivers at my place who will have 2 days off in one week like myself like work Sunday, Monday, Tuesday off Weds, work Thursday and Friday off on Saturday then the next week will be off 2 days together

Those extra reduced weekly rest periods make no difference to the situation, as I said before you need to either add an extra 5 hours onto one of the 40 hour rest periods or if you can extend the 63 hour rest period so that it crosses over into Monday morning by a couple of minutes it will all be legal.

Would you be allowed to start after midnight on the Sunday after the 63 hour rest period, if you can it will solve the problem for you.

FAO Tachograph (so this would be legal right■■?)

Week 1

Sunday 30/09 00:01 start 08:15 finish (working in the warehouse)
Monday 01/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 02/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday Rest Day (22hrs away from work)
Thursday 04/10 04:00 start 17:35 finish (DRIVING)
Friday 05/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Saturday Rest Day

Total Rest 39.75hrs

Week 2

Sunday 07/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Monday 08/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 09/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday Rest Day (22 hrs away from work)
Thursday 11/10 04:00 start 13:05 finish (DRIVING)
Friday 12/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Saturday Rest Day

Total Rest 39.75hrs

Week 3

Sunday 14/10 21:45
Monday 15/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 16/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday 17/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Thursday 18/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Friday Rest
Saturday Rest

Total Rest 66hrs

Start over with week 1

The only other option I have got is to see if work will do this …

Week 1

Sunday 30/09 21:45 start 06:15 finish (working in the warehouse)
Monday 01/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 02/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday Rest Day (22hrs away from work)
Thursday 04/10 04:00 start 17:35 finish (DRIVING)
Friday 05/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Saturday Rest Day

Total Rest 39.75hrs

Week 2

Sunday 07/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Monday 08/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 09/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday 10/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Thursday 11/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Friday Rest Day
Saturday Rest Day

Total Rest 63.75hrs

Start over with week 1