Ched:
Yes that helps (both Rog and Harry Monk) thanks. Means I’ve been doing it wrong though. Also I work nights with a workforce agreement of 12 hours max WTD extended. I’m pretty sure I understand what you’ve both explained and it means the job I do can’t be done legally as it stands which means a major headache monday morning trying to explain this.
Remember that any POA or BREAKS do not count towards that 12 hours RTD (WTD)
Explain this to boss/TM
A week is from sunday midnight to sunday midnight
A full weekly rest must be in a week by at least 1 minute for it to count for that week
A full weekly rest of at least 45 hours must be in every other week
A reduced weekly rest of a minimum 24 hours can be done in weeks when a full is not needed
Payback for a reduced weekly rest must be paid back in full before the end (sunday midnight) of week 4 if the reduction was in week 1
I have a question also can I have a 36hr weekley rest every week if I have a further daily rest later in the week of 21hrs would this be legal?
NewLad:
I have a question also can I have a 36hr weekley rest every week if I have a further daily rest later in the week of 21hrs would this be legal?
No.
Can you tell me why it wouldn’t be legal I just don’t understand why. At the moment I’m having a 36 followed by a 36 followed by a 63 to repay the 18 reduced
NewLad:
Can you tell me why it wouldn’t be legal I just don’t understand why. At the moment I’m having a 36 followed by a 36 followed by a 63 to repay the 18 reduced
Because to comply with the EU regulations you must have a regular 45 hour weekly rest period at-least every second week.
In any two consecutive ‘fixed’ weeks a driver must take at least:
two regular weekly rests; or
one regular weekly rest and one reduced weekly rest.
edit: The 45 hour weekly rest period has to be 45 consecutive hours.
tachograph:
Because to comply with the EU regulations you must have a regular 45 hour weekly rest period at-least every second week.
^^^^ This.
Every other weekly rest has to be a 45 hour rest, you can’t reduce twice in a row.
tachograph:
NewLad:
Can you tell me why it wouldn’t be legal I just don’t understand why. At the moment I’m having a 36 followed by a 36 followed by a 63 to repay the 18 reducedBecause to comply with the EU regulations you must have a regular 45 hour weekly rest period at-least every second week.
In any two consecutive ‘fixed’ weeks a driver must take at least:
two regular weekly rests; or
one regular weekly rest and one reduced weekly rest.edit: The 45 hour weekly rest period has to be 45 consecutive hours.
thanks for that so me doing a 36 36 and a 63 is illigal then?!?
NewLad:
thanks for that so me doing a 36 36 and a 63 is illigal then?!?
Yes, illegal, no ifs, no buts, no grey areas, two reduced rests in a row = illegal.
NewLad:
thanks for that so me doing a 36 36 and a 63 is illigal then?!?
Are you talking about doing that shift pattern on a regular basis or as a one off ?
There’s no way I can see that you could legally do it on a regular basis.
If you’re talking about doing it once then that may be legal as long as the weekly rest period following the 63 hours was a 45 hour rest period.
You’re talking about the 63 hour rest period paying back 18 hours of compensation but there’s no way it’s could work like that because the 63 hours would have to count for a 45 hour weekly rest period for the same week as the second 36 hour reduced weekly rest so there would only be 8 hours compensation to pay back and you’d be having two weekly rest periods in the same week (Getting complicated isn’t it 
).
Originally you asked about having a 36 hour weekly rest period every week, it would help if you clarified what it is that you’re doing 36 every week with a further 21 hour rest or 36, 36 63 
If he even needs to ask the question then his work/life balance is seriously wrong.
when you are showing your examples of time off how are you calculating your weekly rest ie week 1 34 hrs or week 2 45 hrs
Harry Monk:
Generally, you have to take 45 hours off in one continuous period as your weekly rest period.You can reduce this down to an absolute minimum of 24 hours, provided you took a 45 hour rest the week before, and you take one after. In other words, you can only reduce every other weekly rest.
Week 1- 45 hours.
Week 2- 24 hours.
Week 3- 45 hours.
Week 4- 24 hours.
Week 5- 87 hours. A 45 hour rest, with two lots of 21 hours added to compensate for weeks 2 and 4. 45+ 21 + 21 = 87.
Or you could take 66 hours, (45 + 21) but you would still need to compensate 21 hours from week 4 before the end of week 7.
Is that based on driving hours or working hours?
Ok so I will try to make this really simple
I have only been driving since week commencing Monday 01/10/12
My company’s working week starts on a Sunday.
My last 3 weeks at work have been…
Week 1
Sunday 30/09 22:00 start 06:15 finish (working in the warehouse)
Monday 01/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 02/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday Rest Day (22hrs away from work)
Thursday 04/10 04:00 start 17:35 finish (DRIVING)
Friday 05/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Saturday Rest Day
Total Rest 36hrs
Week 2
Sunday 07/10 Holiday
Monday 08/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 09/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday Rest Day (22 hrs away from work)
Thursday 11/10 04:00 start 13:05 finish (DRIVING)
Friday 12/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Saturday Rest Day
Total Rest 36hrs
Week 3
Sunday 14/10 Holiday
Monday 15/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 16/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday 17/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Thursday 18/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Friday Rest
Saturday Rest
Total Rest 63.75hrs
Start over with week 1
Saturday Rest Day
This is illegal, you would have thought that the big supermarket company I work for would have known this was wrong when they sat down and agreed when I could drive with me.
Thanks for your help need to speak to work now.
Also how does the occasional mobile workers exemption work I know I can qualify if I don’t drive more than 10 times in a 26 week period but what does it exempt you from?
NewLad:
Week 1
Friday 05/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Saturday Rest DayTotal Rest 36hrs
Week 2
Sunday 07/10 Holiday
Monday 08/10 21:45 start
If you finished at 0600 Saturday and started back at 2145 Monday, then that is 63 hours rest.
EDIT. I see where you are going wrong here. You are thinking that you have only had 36 hours off when the next fixed week starts at midnight on Sunday. That isn’t how it works, your weekend rest can span two weeks, fixed weeks are for daily driving purposes only.
NewLad:
Ok so I will try to make this really simpleI have only been driving since week commencing Monday 01/10/12
My company’s working week starts on a Sunday.
My last 3 weeks at work have been…
Week 1
Sunday 30/09 22:00 start 06:15 finish (working in the warehouse)
Monday 01/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 02/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday Rest Day (22hrs away from work)
Thursday 04/10 04:00 start 17:35 finish (DRIVING)
Friday 05/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Saturday Rest DayTotal Rest 36hrs
Week 2
Sunday 07/10 Holiday
Monday 08/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 09/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday Rest Day (22 hrs away from work)
Thursday 11/10 04:00 start 13:05 finish (DRIVING)
Friday 12/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Saturday Rest DayTotal Rest 36hrs
Week 3
Sunday 14/10 Holiday
Monday 15/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 16/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday 17/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Thursday 18/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Friday Rest
Saturday RestTotal Rest 63.75hrs
Start over with week 1
Saturday Rest Day
This is illegal, you would have thought that the big supermarket company I work for would have known this was wrong when they sat down and agreed when I could drive with me.
Thanks for your help need to speak to work now.
Also how does the occasional mobile workers exemption work I know I can qualify if I don’t drive more than 10 times in a 26 week period but what does it exempt you from?
At the end of week 1 you had from when you finished on Saturday morning to when you started on Monday off so you must have had more than 45 hours weekly rest, the same applies to the end of week 2.
Week 3 you didn’t do any driving to EU regulations so didn’t need a weekly rest period.
Harry Monk:
Generally, you have to take 45 hours off in one continuous period as your weekly rest period.
So for the likes of me doing warehouse hours my shift pattern is any 5 days from 7, never guaranteed 2 days off consecutively. If I wanted to do the odd day driving for them I would need to get my rota changed so I had my 2 rest days together? Therefore giving me just over 45 hours weekly rest?
tachograph:
NewLad:
Ok so I will try to make this really simpleI have only been driving since week commencing Monday 01/10/12
My company’s working week starts on a Sunday.
My last 3 weeks at work have been…
Week 1
Sunday 30/09 22:00 start 06:15 finish (working in the warehouse)
Monday 01/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 02/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday Rest Day (22hrs away from work)
Thursday 04/10 04:00 start 17:35 finish (DRIVING)
Friday 05/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Saturday Rest DayTotal Rest 36hrs
Week 2
Sunday 07/10 Holiday
Monday 08/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 09/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday Rest Day (22 hrs away from work)
Thursday 11/10 04:00 start 13:05 finish (DRIVING)
Friday 12/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Saturday Rest DayTotal Rest 36hrs
Week 3
Sunday 14/10 Holiday
Monday 15/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Tuesday 16/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Wednesday 17/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Thursday 18/10 21:45 start 06:00 finish (working in the warehouse)
Friday Rest
Saturday RestTotal Rest 63.75hrs
Start over with week 1
Saturday Rest Day
This is illegal, you would have thought that the big supermarket company I work for would have known this was wrong when they sat down and agreed when I could drive with me.
Thanks for your help need to speak to work now.
Also how does the occasional mobile workers exemption work I know I can qualify if I don’t drive more than 10 times in a 26 week period but what does it exempt you from?
At the end of week 1 you had from when you finished on Saturday morning to when you started on Monday off so you must have had more than 45 hours weekly rest, the same applies to the end of week 2.
Week 3 you didn’t do any driving to EU regulations so didn’t need a weekly rest period.
I see what your saying but it was holiday on both sunday nights doesn’t that count as work for WTD perposes?
This is my fixed agreed “rota” with work although the sundays will usually be worked and not holidays it would then be illegal wouldn’t it?? I’m getting soooo confused at the moment!
Week 3 I don’t do any driving but don’t I still have to make up for the rest I reduced? Do you see what Im saying?
NewLad:
I see what your saying but it was holiday on both sunday nights doesn’t that count as work for WTD perposes?
You started off by asking about tachograph rules. You are legal under tachograph rules for the scenario you described in the original post.
As to whether this complies with the Working Time Directive, I’m not entirely sure, none of us take any notice of that to be honest.
Harry Monk:
NewLad:
I see what your saying but it was holiday on both sunday nights doesn’t that count as work for WTD perposes?You started off by asking about tachograph rules. You are legal under tachograph rules for the scenario you described in the original post.
As to whether this complies with the Working Time Directive, I’m not entirely sure, none of us take any notice of that to be honest.
ok harry I get the point lol, if I hadn’t had holidays on the Sundays I would have broken the law right?