hi all, new to this forum but been behind a wheel for 20 years - I would like some advice on the following please, I have just moved to a new company and I am doing a run with the details below:
15 mins other work (daily checks)==1.20 hr driving==45 min break==5 mins other work or driving==15 min break==3 hr driving==30 min break==2 hr driving
now I keep getting an infringement saying insufficient rest for driving period
I know under the old system that 3 hrs before and 2 hrs after the 30 min break would give me 5 hrs driving with only a 30 min break but I thought under the new system that as soon as 45 min break has been taken (in this case 15+30) the slate was wiped clean and a new 4.5 hour driving period was allowed - my tacho unit clears my driving hours on the first 45 break and clears it again after the 2nd 15+30 have been taken - any thoughts would be much appreciated.
Could it be that the accrued driving time begins at the start of the period before the last break ? check my signature as I might be talking bollux but not trying to …
Yea I think that’s it exactly - it’s counting the 3+2 driving time but I don’t know why as after the 15+30 break the slate should be wiped again - I think!
By my reckoning even under the wipe the slate clean regime you need the 15 and 30 to be ‘within’ the 5 hour driving period.IE wiping the slate clean only provides for 4.5 hour driving time total segments.Which the second driving time period obviously exceeds because the 15 minute break was before and therefore outside the 5 hour period.IE 5 hours driving 30 minutes break.While by your figures it’s difficult to see what the 15 minute break before the 5 hour driving period acheived.IE it didn’t wipe any slate clean regarding what is stated as 5 hours driving.
It’s just another example of the bs EU regs.When it would be a lot simpler to just say 12 hours total shift with 1 hour break required to be taken after 5.5 hours duty with no seperate driving time limits.
After your full 45 min driving you say you do 5min other work or driving. Are you doing at least a min of driving■■? I have always asked this and there is no limit on the minimum amount of driving before a break but something has to be there for it to start. If your 5 min of other work and driving as you say isn’t driving then you haven’t started your 4.30 hours of driving if you get me. In a morning when I wasn’t loaded I used to have to drive on a loading bay and wait. I would always stop the clock on 44 or less meaning the next break I needed was only a 30 min break to reset the clock. I thought this was a loophole as I could do 4.28 min driving with just a 30 min break. I never got a infringement or an answer from cpc instructor only called stupid and why would you do that. I would say it’s for my benefit.
If I’ve read it right the OP has just made the shift 45 minutes longer than it needed to be when he could probably have just booked everything up to the last 4.5 hours of driving time as driving and duty then took a 45 minute break.
Have you definitely recorded at least a minute of driving between the 45 min break and the 15 min break?
If there is no driving recorded then the 15 min break won’t count as part of a driving break, since it’s not within the new period of driving.
I’ve only took a quick glance but as mentioned the ‘5 mins other work or driving’ could be the crucial bit.
If it’s a new version 1.4 Tacho it will record the most activity in that minute for the full minute and if your just doing a quick shunt it may not register as driving leading to a 5 hour final drive with a 30min break that would only count as a 15min break for driving.
Glen A9:
Have you definitely recorded at least a minute of driving between the 45 min break and the 15 min break?
If there is no driving recorded then the 15 min break won’t count as part of a driving break, since it’s not within the new period of driving.
15 min break==3 hr driving==30 min break==2 hr driving
that’s the problem 5 hrs driving with only 30 mins break, could you not move the 15 min break before 3 hour drive and make 30 min break 45 minutes?
Davem:
hi all, new to this forum but been behind a wheel for 20 years - I would like some advice on the following please, I have just moved to a new company and I am doing a run with the details below:
15 mins other work (daily checks)==1.20 hr driving==45 min break==5 mins other work or driving==15 min break==3 hr driving==30 min break==2 hr driving
now I keep getting an infringement saying insufficient rest for driving period
I know under the old system that 3 hrs before and 2 hrs after the 30 min break would give me 5 hrs driving with only a 30 min break but I thought under the new system that as soon as 45 min break has been taken (in this case 15+30) the slate was wiped clean and a new 4.5 hour driving period was allowed - my tacho unit clears my driving hours on the first 45 break and clears it again after the 2nd 15+30 have been taken - any thoughts would be much appreciated.
davem
I agree with others - if no driving time has been recorded in the red bit then it will flag up a driving time infringement
Davem:
Yea I think that’s it exactly - it’s counting the 3+2 driving time but I don’t know why as after the 15+30 break the slate should be wiped again - I think!
I know the new T Range from renault won’t clear the tacho time until you have moved the wheels for at least a full minute so to take the OPs words directly,
Davem:
15 mins other work (daily checks)==1.20 hr driving==45 min break==5 mins other work or driving==15 min break==3 hr driving==30 min break==2 hr driving
The 45 mins break would wipe the slate clean from the 1.20 drive but if you don’t do enough driving in that 5 mins of other work the difference between the 45 and 15 won’t be noticed by the tacho. If thats the case then you would actually be looking at.
15 mins Checks - 1.2hrs driving - 1.05 break - 3hrs driving - 30 min break - 2hr driving.
It can be quite useful in places. Take the woolwich ferry. Its quite possible to get from south to north without recording any driving at all because you move so slow and so infrequently that the newer tacho software doesn’t record it.
Juddian:
malcob:
you have 5 hrs driving with a 30 min break
this ^^
Not this^^
It is perfectly acceptable to start in Luton, drive 15 minutes to Toddington Services, take a fifteen minute break while Greggs make you a sausage baguette and a coffee, drive 4 hours, take 30 mins break then drive another 4 hours to a 45 or daily rest.
Davem:
15 mins other work (daily checks)==1.20 hr driving==45 min break==5 mins other work or driving==15 min break==3 hr driving==30 min break==2 hr driving
I agree with others that sometimes you’re probably not doing any/enough driving in the 5 minutes so the 15 minute break is not counted as a driving break, you cannot have a driving break until you’ve done some driving.
You say “my tacho unit clears my driving hours on the first 45 break and clears it again after the 2nd 15+30 have been taken” but my guess would be that you’ve checked the tachograph sometimes when you’ve done some driving in the 5 minutes and assumed it’s always clearing the driving time (I could be wrong though ).
The rule is that you must have some driving showing on the tachograph, either since the start of the shift or since the driving time was last reset, for a break to count as a driving break.
How much driving you need to do for it to show on a tachograph will depend on the age of tachograph, but if you do at-least 1 minute of driving it should always show on any make or age of digital tachograph.
malcob:
you have 5 hrs driving with a 30 min break
this ^^
Not this^^
Actually it’s most likely precisely that, if the OP doesn’t have any driving time showing on the tachograph when he has the 15 minute break then going by the example in his post he ends up doing 5 hours driving with only a 30 minute break.
tachograph:
Actually it’s most likely precisely that, if the OP doesn’t have any driving time showing on the tachograph when he has the 15 minute break then going by the example in his post he ends up doing 5 hours driving with only a 30 minute break.
Exactly what I was thinking, to (hopefully) make it clearer…
malcob:
you have 5 hrs driving with a 30 min break
^^ This!
shep532:
It will without doubt be that no driving is taking place between the 45 minute BREAK and the 15 minute BREAK.
You just need to get at least 1 minute driving in and it’ll work.
Why take a 45 after only 1hr 20? Take a 30 (or 44) and as long as your 3hrs later is 3 hours (not pushing you over 4 and a half total) take another 30 then and you’re not picking up infringements.
