I’m a bit unclear on this but I think possibly the second break must be 45 minutes and a 15-30 doesn’t count.
Eric Rambler:
I’m a bit unclear on this but I think possibly the second break must be 45 minutes and a 15-30 doesn’t count.
Any 45 minute driving break can be taken in 2 parts (15 followed by 30), the problem is the OP most likely never did any driving between the end of the 45 minute break and the start of the 15 minute break, so the 15 minute break wouldn’t count as a driving break, hence the 5 hours driving with only a 30 minute break.
It’s just that the idea of the second 45 minute break is to allow the further 1 hour after using up the normal days maximum of 9. So if taken as advised you would need to take it as one break as you couldn’t do any more driving until it was complete. However I don’t think many people ever actually drive 4.5 hours have a break and drive another 4.5 hours. It would be very hard to do in this country and you need to give yourself at least 10 minutes to park up. I have only ever driven more than 4 and 20 minutes once. Anyhow my tacho does the same thing and tells me there is an infringement when I have split a second break but this hasn’t shown up on the tachomaster report so I think it’s wrong, but at the time it causes me much stress so I take 45 in one go.
Oh and I’ve just read what I’ve written and it makes no sense.
shep532:
It will without doubt be that no driving is taking place between the 45 minute BREAK and the 15 minute BREAK.You just need to get at least 1 minute driving in and it’ll work.
Even if it did work what’s the point of effectively booking 1.5 hours breaks,by the figures given,when just putting 45 minutes in the right place would be enough to cover the whole shift with no chance of getting it wrong. 
As for the idea that anything will allow a 30 minute break to cover a 5 hour driving period that just shows how stupid the regs are.
Juddian:
malcob:
you have 5 hrs driving with a 30 min breakthis ^^
But according to the EU so long as you do 5 minutes of driving then take a 15 minute break,you can then do 5 hours of driving with just a 30 minute break. Which obviously all helps towards a 15 hour total shift in large part made up of pointless breaks. 
Vid:
Why take a 45 after only 1hr 20? Take a 30 (or 44) and as long as your 3hrs later is 3 hours (not pushing you over 4 and a half total) take another 30 then and you’re not picking up infringements.
By those figures just 45 minutes break in the right place won’t exceed 4.5 hours driving anywhere.
Carryfast:
Vid:
Why take a 45 after only 1hr 20? Take a 30 (or 44) and as long as your 3hrs later is 3 hours (not pushing you over 4 and a half total) take another 30 then and you’re not picking up infringements.By those figures just 45 minutes break in the right place won’t exceed 4.5 hours driving anywhere.
But what about his WTD? That could easily have been a factor (just surmising mind you)
Reef:
Carryfast:
Vid:
Why take a 45 after only 1hr 20? Take a 30 (or 44) and as long as your 3hrs later is 3 hours (not pushing you over 4 and a half total) take another 30 then and you’re not picking up infringements.By those figures just 45 minutes break in the right place won’t exceed 4.5 hours driving anywhere.
But what about his WTD? That could easily have been a factor (just surmising mind you)
As I read it in this case it’s a case of 15 minutes duty + 1.20 minutes driving + 45 minutes duty + 5 hours 5 minutes of driving possibly followed by 15 minutes + duty at the end of the shift.IE around 8 hours total duty and driving combined ?.So unless I’ve missed something 45 minutes break at around the 4 hour mark covers everything ?.
Carryfast:
Reef:
Carryfast:
Vid:
Why take a 45 after only 1hr 20? Take a 30 (or 44) and as long as your 3hrs later is 3 hours (not pushing you over 4 and a half total) take another 30 then and you’re not picking up infringements.By those figures just 45 minutes break in the right place won’t exceed 4.5 hours driving anywhere.
But what about his WTD? That could easily have been a factor (just surmising mind you)
As I read it in this case it’s a case of 15 minutes duty + 1.20 minutes driving + 45 minutes duty + 5 hours 5 minutes of driving possibly followed by 15 minutes + duty at the end of the shift.IE around 8 hours total duty and driving combined ?.So unless I’ve missed something 45 minutes break at around the 4 hour mark covers everything ?.
That was 45 mins break of the OP btw,
but yes you’re right, though I was not thinking directly of this case it was a kneejerk reply to your post and in certain situations you could indeed get caught out by the WTD (not that anyone cares about the bloody WTD but still)
Reef:
Carryfast:
As I read it in this case it’s a case of 15 minutes duty + 1.20 minutes driving + 45 minutes duty + 5 hours 5 minutes of driving possibly followed by 15 minutes + duty at the end of the shift.IE around 8 hours total duty and driving combined ?.So unless I’ve missed something 45 minutes break at around the 4 hour mark covers everything ?.That was 45 mins break of the OP btw,
but yes you’re right, though I was not thinking directly of this case it was a kneejerk reply to your post and in certain situations you could indeed get caught out by the WTD (not that anyone cares about the bloody WTD but still)
I showed the 45 as duty as an example of the question as to why the OP bothered to book it as break ?.
Realistically in most cases neither the WTD nor all the aggro of where to put split breaks need to apply unless it’s an extended driving time and/or reduced daily rest type shift. 
Which still leaves the question of that weird loophole in the regs which seems to allow 5 hours driving with 30 minutes break even on a wipe the slate clean type basis.
Carryfast:
shep532:
It will without doubt be that no driving is taking place between the 45 minute BREAK and the 15 minute BREAK.You just need to get at least 1 minute driving in and it’ll work.
Even if it did work what’s the point of effectively booking 1.5 hours breaks,by the figures given,when just putting 45 minutes in the right place would be enough to cover the whole shift with no chance of getting it wrong.
I don’t think I mentioned anything about whether the regs were sane or stupid - what ya having a go at me for? 
I just answered the OPs question.
Drive 1 minute, break 15 minutes, drive 4h 29m break 30m drive 4h 30m. That’s 8h 59m with a break of only 30m but appears to fit the rules as they stand. Of course with the old 15/15/15 I could do 8h 58m with only 15m break.
shep532:
Carryfast:
shep532:
It will without doubt be that no driving is taking place between the 45 minute BREAK and the 15 minute BREAK.You just need to get at least 1 minute driving in and it’ll work.
Even if it did work what’s the point of effectively booking 1.5 hours breaks,by the figures given,when just putting 45 minutes in the right place would be enough to cover the whole shift with no chance of getting it wrong.
I don’t think I mentioned anything about whether the regs were sane or stupid - what ya having a go at me for?
Drive 1 minute, break 15 minutes, drive 4h 29m break 30m drive 4h 30m. That’s 8h 59m with a break of only 30m but appears to fit the rules as they stand. Of course with the old 15/15/15 I could do 8h 58m with only 15m break.
That’s fair enough shep.I wasn’t having a go at your comments.I was just questioning the logic or need for messing about with split breaks in the case of the OP’s example let alone the logic of the regs themselves.As for 8h 58m with a 15 minute break. 
I think the wipe the slate clean clarification only came about because of the even bigger dogs breakfast of the aggregate driving time interpretation ?.Which the government were trying to defend on the basis of the wipe slate clean being against the spirit of the EU regs when it’s obvious that either interpretation is as bad as each other.
With it still being contradictory confusing bollox which says one thing in the form of a supposed 4.5 hour limit and 45 minute break and the opposite such as in the case of 5 hours driving with 30 minutes break.Let alone the mathematical chaos caused by a 4.5 hour driving limit and 45 minute break regime when applied to a potential 10 hour daily driving limit. You couldn’t make it up.IE it’s what happens when ze Germans make ze laws and the French and the Italians implement them with the Brit courts and government acting as the referee.
As opposed to the idea of 12 hours minimum daily rest,1 hour break after 5.5 hours duty no split breaks but if you want more just book them as duty on the log book,with no seperate driving time limits.
I think you should have had a 45 after the 3 hour drive, possibly because the tacho thinks you have driven for 5 hours with only a 30 minute break ( as it cleared the slate after the 15 minutes )
hi all and thanks for the answers - the shift needs do be done in this fashion for reasons to complex to go into here so moving the breaks is a none starter - however the couple of guys who said I needed the tacho to record at least 1 minute of driving between the 45 and 15 are correct - instead of just shunting the unit between the 2 trailers during other work I drove around the yard until 1 minute of driving was recorded and hey presto no infringement showed