Well CF if you have said it then I suppose it must be true as I bow to your superior knowledge on all thing maritime (and everything else for that matter from world politics to nuclear fission) but I would think a naval architect designed those ‘Isle of Wight’ ferries so maybe HE knows a bit more about it than an internet reading layman. Just sayin like.
raymundo:
Well CF if you have said it then I suppose it must be true as I bow to your superior knowledge on all thing maritime (and everything else for that matter from world politics to nuclear fission) but I would think a naval architect designed those ‘Isle of Wight’ ferries so maybe HE knows a bit more about it than an internet reading layman. Just sayin like.
I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with the ‘architect’ he can only design what the customer has ordered. 
As for older more like classic at least in the case of the Tors which were arguably two of the best sea going ‘ferries’ ever built/ordered obviously in better less pc days. 
I give up ! (but I refer to the opening sentence in my previous post) but I will add that it isn’t the amount of sea that can run across that 19 miles of ditch that prevents them from sailing but the berthing/letting go at either end when it’s blowing a hooley.
As part of my job I decide which route is the best to get to Europe for various jobs, we normally use the tunnel as it’s far quicker than any other method but the Dover Calais ferries normally work out cheaper than.
I’ve looked at many other routes over the years and before they put on the environmental surcharge, and the channel crossings always worked out better in terms of price or time to destination.
Priced up a job to Gothenburg a couple of year ago and it was cheaper to go Dover - Calais than use an of the Ferries either to Gothenburg or Esbjerg. The only reason we would consider them would be to get a break on the boat or to reduce the road miles on the vehicle, the same goes for the Portsmouth to Spain ferries.
As for Ramsgate - Ostende looked into that a few years ago to avoid Calais, but a 4 hour crossing meant it just didn’t make sense.
Of to Austria next week and the first of our trucks to leave will be on the Harwich - Hook of Holland boat due to the problems in Calais, because of this the the truck has to leave earlier than if we could use the tunnel, I haven’t worked out what the price difference will be from using the tunnel as it was a beggars can’t be choosers situation.
muckles:
As part of my job I decide which route is the best to get to Europe for various jobs, we normally use the tunnel as it’s far quicker than any other method but the Dover Calais ferries normally work out cheaper than.I’ve looked at many other routes over the years and before they put on the environmental surcharge, and the channel crossings always worked out better in terms of price or time to destination.
Priced up a job to Gothenburg a couple of year ago and it was cheaper to go Dover - Calais than use an of the Ferries either to Gothenburg or Esbjerg. The only reason we would consider them would be to get a break on the boat or to reduce the road miles on the vehicle, the same goes for the Portsmouth to Spain ferries.
As for Ramsgate - Ostende looked into that a few years ago to avoid Calais, but a 4 hour crossing meant it just didn’t make sense.
Of to Austria next week and the first of our trucks to leave will be on the Harwich - Hook of Holland boat due to the problems in Calais, because of this the the truck has to leave earlier than if we could use the tunnel, I haven’t worked out what the price difference will be from using the tunnel as it was a beggars can’t be choosers situation.
Which all looks a bit different when you factor in the issue that Calais and/or the tunnel are now obviously creaking under the strain and have no margins for any type of unforeseen circumstances whatsoever.In which case being stuck in a ‘stack’ means ( a lot ) more than the extra couple of hours spent getting to Ostende bearing in mind that the run from Calais to Liege for example will also eat into that saving in crossing time.
As for pricing being critical to make the alternative longer crossings viable that is the issue and adding to the fuel costs etc in the form of all the eco bs won’t help matters in that regard.On that note it would be interesting to compare the fuel bill for a run to Sweden via Calais with the best case better days crossing price for Harwich to Gothenburg for example.
Carryfast:
Which all looks a bit different when you factor in the issue that Calais and/or the tunnel are now obviously creaking under the strain and have no margins for any type of unforeseen circumstances whatsoever.In which case being stuck in a ‘stack’ means ( a lot ) more than the extra couple of hours spent getting to Ostende bearing in mind that the run from Calais to Liege for example will also eat into that saving in crossing time.
What do you suggest, have certain routes subsidised for the occasions where they have problems on the Tunnel or Dover Calais route?
I know others here use the channel crossings several times a week, so might have suffered more problems then me as we only use it on average 3 or 4 times a month during the racing season, March to October. But I have been using the channel crossings for over 10 years and the times there are serious delays aren’t that regular.
Carryfast:
As for pricing being critical to make the alternative longer crossings viable that is the issue and adding to the fuel costs etc in the form of all the eco bs won’t help matters in that regard.On that note it would be interesting to compare the fuel bill for a run to Sweden via Calais with the best case better days crossing price for Harwich to Gothenburg for example.
If you read my post properly you’ll see I’d already priced up a job to Gothenburg before they introduced the Eco tax, and that includes Fuel, tolls, truck costs, wages etc for all options, it still was cheaper to go Dover Calais than go straight to Gothenburg, of course for others it might be better on the longer crossing depending on what price they pay as some companies will have a better deal than us.
Carryfast:
raymundo:
IMO opinion Transeuropa went bust because they were try to keep old rustbuckets going well past their sell by date and amongst other things could not keep up with the then legislation regarding emissions etc, but there again what do I know about ships? P&O don’t get did of owt if it has an ounce of profitable life left in it.It’s not an issue of how new the ships are it’s all about the costs of fuelling them and all the other emissions bs.The result being higher fuel costs because the ‘clean’ diesel is a lot more expensive than the usual stuff and just like trucks more expense to fit and maintain all the exhaust scrubbing kit.All of which reduces viability over longer distances.
As for new ships,just like the modern cruise ‘barges’ v a proper sea going liner, the older designs were arguably better for running in all weathers over longer routes.Bearing in mind that is a solid bow with the Ro Ro front doors in the sides which would have saved the Estonia if it had been designed the same way.
ferry-site.dk/picture/ferry/7361312g.jpg
Than something with a front end like this which is nothing more than a large Isle of Wight type effort which can’t go anywhere but Calais and even then with the usual ‘cancellations’ and yet more ‘operation stack’ when the wind blows. .
Now me and Raymondo have crossed swords many a time but Carryfast lecturing him on the running of ships is so so funny!
He keeps rattling on about Dover - Calais creaking under the strain but it isn’t really. It was CLOSED for four days, reopened and recovered in two so ya know it’s pretty good at what it does. Close any port for four days and it would struggle. In nearly 15 years of doing Europe I’ve been in operation stack twice, hardly creaking under the strain. I don’t know why I’m bothering, you won’t listen. You won’t listen to real world experience, your prefer your fantasy world theories. Some of us on this thread have probably been on more ferries in the last couple of months that you have in a lifetime
Been off Euro for about 5 yrs now, didn’t know Ramsgate to Oostende had finished. Only done it about twice, think the boat had been once used for evacuating Brit troops from Dunkerque in WW2 
Still have nightmares about the fat smelly chef on there, dressed in a string vest and a bandana, chucking mashed spuds on my plate with one hand, and scratching his arse with the other
Next it will the operation stack at the airports 
switchlogic:
You won’t listen to real world experience, your prefer your fantasy world theories. Some of us on this thread have probably been on more ferries in the last couple of months that you have in a lifetime
That would be a bit difficult being that many are now scrapped,including the last Isle of Wight paddle steamer,and 3 were destroyed in accidents at sea 
and they’d have to have managed numerous return runs to Scandinavia,Genoa to the Italian Islands,a few across the Adriatic from Italy to Yugoslavia and more than one Atlantic crossing in both directions if that can be described as a ‘ferry’ crossing. 
Question for you Oh ye Righteous Font of all Knowledge ? what was the name of the last paddle steamer on the IOW service and the names of the 3 lost at sea ■■ ( answers please without a copy/paste piece of the tinterweb if you can )
Two ferries that I know of personally went to the Falklands in '82, the Norland and the St. Edmund but they were real passenger ships that could have sailed anywhere in the world, unlike the ones you deride that were designed and built solely for the Dover Calais route. The thing I am skipper of at the moment was built and designed for carrying passengers and freight around the Greek Islands but was brought to the UK to work the West of Scotland round timber trade, hardly the same work but quite capable when weather allows. (which aint bleedin often in the winter months but we do it).
And I think you will find if you read the regulations regarding clean exhausts for ships that they only have to be complied with if within a certain distance to land but cant recollect which ‘M’ notice I got the info from. M notices btw are issued by the maritime and coastguard agency informing mariners of the new and forthcoming crap we have to contend with.
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
You won’t listen to real world experience, your prefer your fantasy world theories. Some of us on this thread have probably been on more ferries in the last couple of months that you have in a lifetimeThat would be a bit difficult being that many are now scrapped,including the last Isle of Wight paddle steamer,and 3 were destroyed in accidents at sea
Wow, redefining what a ferry is now are we?! Or just missing the point as usual?
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
You won’t listen to real world experience, your prefer your fantasy world theories. Some of us on this thread have probably been on more ferries in the last couple of months that you have in a lifetimeThat would be a bit difficult being that many are now scrapped,including the last Isle of Wight paddle steamer,and 3 were destroyed in accidents at sea
I’m a bit worried that you’ve been on 3 ferries that were destroyed at sea. Were you in charge at the time or did the crew scuttle them to try and get rid of you and preserve their sanity 
or have we just outed you as Uncle Albert?
muckles:
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
You won’t listen to real world experience, your prefer your fantasy world theories. Some of us on this thread have probably been on more ferries in the last couple of months that you have in a lifetimeThat would be a bit difficult being that many are now scrapped,including the last Isle of Wight paddle steamer,and 3 were destroyed in accidents at sea
I’m a bit worried that you’ve been on 3 ferries that were destroyed at sea.
Don’t question him! The odd holiday abroad gives him way more experience than those of us who’ve been doing euro work for years, I’m amazed you can’t see that! All aboard the MS Cantankerous, Captain Carryfast awaits.
I can just imagine CF in charge of any thing bigger than a plastic boat in the bath, I reckon after about two or three hours of listening to his ranting on and on when asked a simple question by the crew would see him being strung up from the nearest mast 
raymundo:
Question for you Oh ye Righteous Font of all Knowledge ? what was the name of the last paddle steamer on the IOW service and the names of the 3 lost at sea ■■ ( answers please without a copy/paste piece of the tinterweb if you can )
Ryde.
Juliana/Moby Pince,Herald,Boccaccio.
Just to make it clear I was luckily no where near them when they met their fate.
raymundo:
Two ferries that I know of personally went to the Falklands in '82, the Norland and the St. Edmund but they were real passenger ships that could have sailed anywhere in the world, unlike the ones you deride that were designed and built solely for the Dover Calais route.And I think you will find if you read the regulations regarding clean exhausts for ships that they only have to be complied with if within a certain distance to land but cant recollect which ‘M’ notice I got the info from. M notices btw are issued by the maritime and coastguard agency informing mariners of the new and forthcoming crap we have to contend with.
The first paragraph is the point.IE any ‘issues’ with Calais and they can’t be re routed.Unlike the days when the same ships were used on numerous interchangeable routes.
As for the second paragraph according to the reports the emissions area in question covers all of the North Sea and Channel crossing areas.Which probably explains why ex DFDS ships as those referred to are still working happily in the Med.
What was the reason other runs like Dover-Oostende, Ramsgate-Dunquerque, Folkstone-Boulogne, & Sheerness-Vlissengen got knocked on the head btw?
If we could cut Calais out of the entire cross channel trade route - just think how much better off we’d be in the long term?
Solve the illegals problem and the striking dockers problem at the same time eh? 