Going to do my bus licence (D)to complete the set.
Didn’t realise there was a D+E category,is that for the single decker bendy buses?
In what ways do the PCV and LGV tests differ?
I read the big bus companies have their own examiners,doesn’t that mean they will pass everybody regardless of how good or bad they are?
Surely they’ll only have instructors, examiners are DSA.
If you already have C or C+E in a manual, you can take your test in an automatic bus and you will automatically gain the full entitlement. I am fairly sure that if you have a C+E they will give you D+E for the standard D test (although stand to be corrected)
It is a daft process to go through as a C licence allows you to drive a bus or coach without passengers. Surely they should just make you sit the relevant theory?
I think the D+E is indeed for the bendy bus (Although I may be wrong) As there is a class that allows coaches to pull a trailer too, which will be an articulated PCV licence?
I’m not sure how the test will differ as I haven’t taken the LGV as yet, but maybe there not so different as the examiners tend to look for a safe and comfortable ride in any class?
Its is true that the larger bus operators do have their own examiners, I took mine with Barnsley based Yorkshire Traction (Now Stagecoach) in 1991 and the examiner was very relaxed, even to the point he turned a blind eye when I caught the N/S mirror on a council wagon in a very tight space!
I look at it this way, they won’t waste the money on training a bad driver, if they think you have a good chance of completing the course at assessment stage, you stand a very good chance of getting the licence. If you fluff the assessment, they won’t train you, full stop.
8wheels:
It is a daft process to go through as a C licence allows you to drive a bus or coach without passengers.
Only if it’s broken down and being driven to a place for repair.
The actual PCV test follows the same format as the LGV.
The theory test, the multiple choice bit is almost identical to the LGV.
The hazard perception bit is the same for all classes,what’s the point?
Well yes exactly. A bus is just a rigid with windows.
The only difference really comes down to the handful of bus questions in the theory book that cover passengers. There are loads of HGV only questions as the work can be so much more varied, with different size vehicles, weights and irregular loads.
There is a security company based round here that were advertising for PCV drivers to drive the prison vans. Now these are just Iveco Eurocargos 12t, if it was full of food or whatever a bus driver couldn’t drive one but stuff it full of criminals and it becomes a bus. Daft or what.
Hope this helps, bus licences are broken down like this since the category changes after Jan 1st 1997
D1 Minibus, up to17 passenger seats
D1+E Minibus with trailer
D Bus or Coach
D+E Bus or Coach with trailer
If you have a full category C licence and have held it for 2yrs, you can drive a large bus or coach if it is damaged or defective and being driven a place of repair or being roadtested and there is no one on it who is not involved with the repair or road testing.
There isn’t a separate test for a bendy bus, so a holder of a D licence can drive one as while it bends it is not a trailer, as the part behind the bend cannot be unhitched in the way a trailer can.
I need a beer after all that. 
I’m not sure how the test will differ as I haven’t taken the LGV as yet, but maybe there not so different as the examiners tend to look for a safe and comfortable ride in any class?
Its is true that the larger bus operators do have their own examiners, I took mine with Barnsley based Yorkshire Traction (Now Stagecoach) in 1991 and the examiner was very relaxed, even to the point he turned a blind eye when I caught the N/S mirror on a council wagon in a very tight space!
I think the test is basically identical, however there is an extra excersise, where you have to basically pull up at a bus stop. Stopping so that people can get on and off ok, ie. not with a lamp post in the middle of the door etc.
Larger firms have their own examiners, but generally they train you to a higher standard, simply because you’ll be driving their busses for the next few years and they dont want them wrecked. The DSA also send in ‘mystery candidates’ from time to time to check up on them.
It’s a bit like a garage with an MOT tester, it’s not worth them passing duds, as if they lose their licence to test. Then they have to send people elsewhere at huge expense 
The D licence covers you to drive both single and double decker buses/coaches with full compliment of seats and fare paying passengers.
D+E does not apply to bendy buses it applies to buses pulling a trailer.
If you already have your ‘E’ licence with your C+E then your new D licence will be automatically upgraded to D+E.
You cannot drive a ‘D’ catagory vehicle, with or without passengers, unless you have a 'D; on your licence but I agree there is a provision for breakdowns as mentioned above.
The theory test is pretty simlar but of course you have to answer questions about passenger safety.
The practical test also involves you showing the examiner where the emergency exits are and the fire extinguisher and medical kit are kept - a legal requirement for passenger carrying vehicles.
It is also illegal to smoke whilst in charge of a Passenger Carrying Vehicle’- this does not mean only when you are carrying passengers either. The vehicle must be a smoke free zone altogether for the consideration of future passengers using the vehicle.
Some big companies do have thier own in house examiners but dont bank on them just passing you as a matter of course. They are still employed by the DSA and have to keep to the strict standard as laid down. although personally I have my doubts about some of them.
The practical test is just the same as any large vehicle test - apart from the passenger questions. The driving skills required and driving standard is exactly the same as are the routes - although you will be asked to stop at a number of bus stops, making sure that the door is in the correct place for safety and convenience of passengers embarking and disembarking your vehicle.
Hope this helps
you can drive a large bus or coach if it is damaged or defective and being driven a place of repair
Surely if it’s ‘damaged or defective’ you shouldnt be driving it full stop
You cannot drive a ‘D’ catagory vehicle, with or without passengers, unless you have a 'D; on your licence but I agree there is a provision for breakdowns as mentioned above.
Not sure how you would stand if you un bolted the seats, as then they wouldnt be fitted, so it would be a large van with windows?
There is also and exemption for historic vehicles (those over 30 years old) you can drive those on a car licence, providing you dont carry more than 8 passengers. Was chatting to a guy the other day who had bought a Routemaster, and driven it back from Birmingham to Kent. 40mph flat out, nice!
Not sure how you would stand if you un bolted the seats, as then they wouldnt be fitted, so it would be a large van with windows?
strange but true actually!
Having said that - that USED to be the case but I heard that it may have changed more recently.
They keep changing the rules to close the loopholes - but they have not caught up with the ‘historic’ drivers yet.
Probably wont be long though.
Quote:
Not sure how you would stand if you un bolted the seats, as then they wouldnt be fitted, so it would be a large van with windows?strange but true actually!
Having said that - that USED to be the case but I heard that it may have changed more recently.
I guess its not really a ‘loophole’ just a change of vehicle type, i doubt you would get many paying passengers if they had to sit on the floor
If they did change it then it would also mean changing the clasification of prison lorries (which are technically busses if they have more than 8 seats!)
clasification of prison lorries (which are technically busses if they have more than 8 seats!)
Ah, now here is a puzzle. At the driving schools i work at we are sent many candidates that work for the prison service, or Securicor and the like.
Some to PCV other do LGV - for the same job!!
I queried it and allIi found out was that the six cells are classed as PCV whereas the eight cells are LGV.
Dont ask me!!! 
I have no idea how that one works
Are prisoners ‘Passengers’ or ‘Cargo’?
I have never gone into it further so maybe others know for sure.
Might be something to do with the overall weight of the vehicle?
Are prisoners ‘Passengers’ or ‘Cargo’?
I have never gone into it further so maybe others know for sure.
Maybe it depends on what crime they committed?
dennisw1:
There is also an exemption for historic vehicles (those over 30 years old) you can drive those on a car licence, providing you dont carry more than 8 passengers.
This exemption was brought in in 1997 when they changed all the licencing classes around and was added “after consulation” Also added at the same time was a grandfathers rights exemption for drivers of 30 year old buses to continue to drive them after a LGV/PCV medical provided their employer signed a declaration that they had been driving large buses before that date.
Calv
Also added at the same time was a grandfathers rights exemption for drivers of 30 year old buses to continue to drive them after a LGV/PCV medical provided their employer signed a declaration that they had been driving large buses before that date.
But the rule for historic vehicles covers trucks AND buses so why this seperate ruling for buses over 30yrs old.
Surely one rule covers all vehicles so cant see the need for employers signing any declarations.
Employers had to sign declarations many years ago when the HGV licencing laws first applied but i have not heard of it since.
Mothertrucker:
clasification of prison lorries (which are technically busses if they have more than 8 seats!)
Ah, now here is a puzzle. At the driving schools i work at we are sent many candidates that work for the prison service, or Securicor and the like.
Some to PCV other do LGV - for the same job!!
I queried it and allIi found out was that the six cells are classed as PCV whereas the eight cells are LGV.
Dont ask me!!!
Are prisoners ‘Passengers’ or ‘Cargo’?
I have never gone into it further so maybe others know for sure.
Had a think about this (yes i;ve had a boring day)
Basically a 6 cell vehicle has too few seats to be considered a bus or minibus (D or D1), but the vehicles weight means it cant be considered a car. So therefore a C1 or C licence is required. The same rule applies to large motorhomes and horse boxes with living accomodation.
The 8 cell vehicle has more than 8 passenger seats (1 passenger seat in the cab) so it can be considered a D1 (minibus)
Mothertrucker:
Also added at the same time was a grandfathers rights exemption for drivers of 30 year old buses to continue to drive them after a LGV/PCV medical provided their employer signed a declaration that they had been driving large buses before that date.
But the rule for historic vehicles covers trucks AND buses so why this seperate ruling for buses over 30yrs old.
Surely one rule covers all vehicles so cant see the need for employers signing any declarations.Employers had to sign declarations many years ago when the HGV licencing laws first applied but i have not heard of it since.
This exemption allows you to carry more than 8 passsengers but not for hire or reward. I have this entitlement on my licence to allow me to continue driving my 45 year old bus with passengers on. It appears on my licence as D/D1 with endorsement 101 (which I cannot find on the net) It was only available for a limited time when the rules changed .
Calv
Basically a 6 cell vehicle has too few seats to be considered a bus or minibus (D or D1), but the vehicles weight means it cant be considered a car. So therefore a C1 or C licence is required. The same rule applies to large motorhomes and horse boxes with living accomodation.
The 8 cell vehicle has more than 8 passenger seats (1 passenger seat in the cab) so it can be considered a D1 (minibus)
Thanks for that Dennisw1- it all makes sense now!
… endorsement 101 (which I cannot find on the net)
Endorsmenent 101 is ‘Not for Hire or Reward’
which I cannot find on the net
Get the DVLA leaflet INS57P ‘Driver licencing information’, they normally dish one out when ever they send you licence back to you. Has all the catergories, Information codes and most of the Endorsments.