slowlane:
This is British government, the organisation specifically in charge of running our country… who can’t manage to get a power station or airport built to save their lives, but can plough ahead with a very-slightly-faster train line than we have already got.
If that doesn’t scare the pants off you, please give me some of whatever you’re taking!
have they even managed to knock the first nail in with HS2
Do they ever intend to do anything other than pay each other vast suns of money in consultancy fees?
What we want is a “Thatcher of the White Collar Workers”
That is, someone who does to the white collar wasters what Thatcher did to Blue collar workers.
"If you cannot build something, fix something, or have any actual REAL skill set - your job of “moving bits of paper to the other side of the desk” for a meaty salary that you get even when you don’t turn up at all" - is now REDUNDANT.
About two weeks FRENCH ,GERMAN ,AND ITALIAN GOV OFFICIALS WERE on an ITALIAN BATTLE SHIP…ERR IT WAS AFLOAT BY THE WAY ,THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT A JOINT EUROPEAN ARMY .PRE BREXIT THIS WAS SAID TO BE A LIE AND THERE WAS NO INTENTION OF A EU ARMY
Firstly as I said if we were going to leave we’d have either torn up article 50 on the grounds that it is a document clearly intended to deny the right of secession and our EU membership since 1975 and all treaties since are void having been obtained under the false pretence of a ‘Common Market’ not an EU.If not article 50 would have at least been expected to be invoked within 24 hours of the referendum result.Not delayed supposedly until January 2017 and now delayed again until at least March 2017.While if the so called Eurosceptics among the Cons were that committed as they pretend to be we wouldn’t now have a remain PM working to a remain agenda.EEA member state ( soft Brexit ),which May has obviously refused to rule out,being effectively the same thing as remain in terms of it not meeting the aims of the leave manifesto.Nor would we have people like Blair,Farron and Corbyn being able to openly state that they intend to over turn the referendum result without any clear opposition to their plans from the May administration.
Firstly as I said if we were going to leave we’d have either torn up article 50 on the grounds that it is a document clearly intended to deny the right of secession and our EU membership since 1975 and all treaties since are void having been obtained under the false pretence of a ‘Common Market’ not an EU.If not article 50 would have at least been expected to be invoked within 24 hours of the referendum result.Not delayed supposedly until January 2017 and now delayed again until at least March 2017.While if the so called Eurosceptics among the Cons were that committed as they pretend to be we wouldn’t now have a remain PM working to a remain agenda.EEA member state ( soft Brexit ),which May has obviously refused to rule out,being effectively the same thing as remain in terms of it not meeting the aims of the leave manifesto.Nor would we have people like Blair,Farron and Corbyn being able to openly state that they intend to over turn the referendum result without any clear opposition to their plans from the May administration.
Don’t normaly read this topic, But,
Surely article 50 is to allow us to have the time to set things straight, without the remaining EU states unilaterally kicking us out at their will.
We joined a common market, and successive british politicians signed us into the EU, and in many ways or at least free movement, much of the EU is of British construct.
As I said on the other thread, the timing of article 50, shows that 1- May does not intend to call an early election and 2- May does not need to state opposition to any plan to over turn the referendum, because she knows that if such a plan was put into practice, she can walk the moral high ground of delivering the publics wish for Brexit, and thus brexit delivered (2019) go to the country in may 2020 and gain a landslide victory.
Such a victory will bring on the a right wing free market agenda, un hindered by political opposition, due to a fragmented labour party, a continuing weak libdem party, and a I believe an SNP that will be fighting amongst themselves after the loss of Scottish seats to the torries, for the first time in generations ask yourself, was the much hailed Scottish vote to remain unanimous, No therefore, the SNP’s continual clamour for either independence or the to remain must be hacking of a lot of Scottish vote leave voters, were can they go to register a protest
Firstly as I said if we were going to leave we’d have either torn up article 50 on the grounds that it is a document clearly intended to deny the right of secession and our EU membership since 1975 and all treaties since are void having been obtained under the false pretence of a ‘Common Market’ not an EU.If not article 50 would have at least been expected to be invoked within 24 hours of the referendum result.Not delayed supposedly until January 2017 and now delayed again until at least March 2017.While if the so called Eurosceptics among the Cons were that committed as they pretend to be we wouldn’t now have a remain PM working to a remain agenda.EEA member state ( soft Brexit ),which May has obviously refused to rule out,being effectively the same thing as remain in terms of it not meeting the aims of the leave manifesto.Nor would we have people like Blair,Farron and Corbyn being able to openly state that they intend to over turn the referendum result without any clear opposition to their plans from the May administration.
Don’t normaly read this topic, But,
Surely article 50 is to allow us to have the time to set things straight, without the remaining EU states unilaterally kicking us out at their will.
We joined a common market, and successive british politicians signed us into the EU, and in many ways or at least free movement, much of the EU is of British construct.
As I said on the other thread, the timing of article 50, shows that 1- May does not intend to call an early election and 2- May does not need to state opposition to any plan to over turn the referendum, because she knows that if such a plan was put into practice, she can walk the moral high ground of delivering the publics wish for Brexit, and thus brexit delivered (2019) go to the country in may 2020 and gain a landslide victory.
Such a victory will bring on the a right wing free market agenda, un hindered by political opposition, due to a fragmented labour party, a continuing weak libdem party, and a I believe an SNP that will be fighting amongst themselves after the loss of Scottish seats to the torries, for the first time in generations ask yourself, was the much hailed Scottish vote to remain unanimous, No therefore, the SNP’s continual clamour for either independence or the to remain must be hacking of a lot of Scottish vote leave voters, were can they go to register a protest
God help us all
The ‘successive’ Europhile British politicians signed us into the EU based on the 1975 ‘Common Market’ mandate.While it’s obvious at best Europhile May intends to sign us up to ‘soft’ Brexit on a ‘hard’ Brexit mandate.On that note how does May’s refusal to rule out soft Brexit fit the script of her supposedly having any intention of delivering the ‘hard’ Brexit that she’s been instructed by the electorate to do.Or for that matter what advantage would there be for the Conservatives in that regard other than pandering to the Europhile Con vote.
As for Brexit being a so called ‘right wing’ agenda how do you explain Kate Hoey’s position or the fact that more Labour voters rightly voted for Brexit than Cons based on her ‘correct’ position.The fact is it’s time to nail the Socialist lie that Federal Soviet style centralist government is good for the working class.When it’s clear that the reality is that it,not surprisingly,just actually helps exploitative free market Capitalism more than it helps the working class.Bearing in mind that,by definition,it isn’t accountable to the electorate.Just as Benn,Shore,Heffer and now Hoey said.So no I don’t buy your nightmare vision but yes we do need a new Eurosceptic wing of the Labour Party led by Hoey to reflect that Eurosceptic Labour vote and to deliver the Brexit that May has no intention whatsoever of delivering.
All this foot-dragging will lead us to the point where the EU can finally offer on the table “Ok Britain, we accept you don’t want any more immigrants.” We are now in a position to let you have that, because there’s no more that want to get to Britain - they are all 28 million of them now finally all over there already!
Of course, “Closing our borders” by that point will be worth bugger-all.
Each and every day that more illegals are admitted to the UK following our June 23rd Mandate - represents a day of “wasted time” at best, and “treasonable behaviour” at worst by our establishment.
It seems to me that Theresa May is more interested in keeping White Collar Remainers everywhere happy - rather than doing what has to be mainly Blue collar workers wishes in “taking back control” properly.
There’s a lot of work there for the corridors of power after all!
Most people want to do less work for the same or more pay - NOT the other way around.
“Status Quo” is always going to be the biggest skive possible for the white collar worker.
One might call this the “Remainer Inertia”.
If you bunged them - they’d be up for it I bet. They just don’t want to have their lifestyles squashed down for the wider benefit of the communities they live in.
So MONEY is the key to converting White Collar remainers to the cause.
Working class remainers though? - They are the loony left. You can’t sell them tenners for a fiver to get them on board, because they long-since gave up the mental agility to get their heads around what’s good for those they should care about. I don’t want to hear “I love whomever you’re worried of right now, who may well go on to kill you - but I HATE you, my fellow working class guy - because you disagree with ME”
I’ve given the left countless opportunities to “sell me” on the left-wing cause - and it always ends up with them attacking ME for not being on board to start with. They see my “I want to understand” approach to their arguments as “some kind of infiltration attempt”. FFS I’ve never been a member of ANY political party, not even UKIP. I’m a floating voter, ready to be sold-to by any and every party who can actually present me with a joined-up argument for their case!
The Leftie argument wants to destroy people like me. I have no truck with them. (Pun fully intended.)
But I’m neither rich or a white collar worker neither!
I’m just one of the 52% majority who are sick and tired of being dictated to by others who don’t have a clue.
Firstly as I said if we were going to leave we’d have either torn up article 50 on the grounds that it is a document clearly intended to deny the right of secession and our EU membership since 1975 and all treaties since are void having been obtained under the false pretence of a ‘Common Market’ not an EU.If not article 50 would have at least been expected to be invoked within 24 hours of the referendum result.Not delayed supposedly until January 2017 and now delayed again until at least March 2017.While if the so called Eurosceptics among the Cons were that committed as they pretend to be we wouldn’t now have a remain PM working to a remain agenda.EEA member state ( soft Brexit ),which May has obviously refused to rule out,being effectively the same thing as remain in terms of it not meeting the aims of the leave manifesto.Nor would we have people like Blair,Farron and Corbyn being able to openly state that they intend to over turn the referendum result without any clear opposition to their plans from the May administration.
Don’t normaly read this topic, But,
Surely article 50 is to allow us to have the time to set things straight, without the remaining EU states unilaterally kicking us out at their will.
We joined a common market, and successive british politicians signed us into the EU, and in many ways or at least free movement, much of the EU is of British construct.
As I said on the other thread, the timing of article 50, shows that 1- May does not intend to call an early election and 2- May does not need to state opposition to any plan to over turn the referendum, because she knows that if such a plan was put into practice, she can walk the moral high ground of delivering the publics wish for Brexit, and thus brexit delivered (2019) go to the country in may 2020 and gain a landslide victory.
Such a victory will bring on the a right wing free market agenda, un hindered by political opposition, due to a fragmented labour party, a continuing weak libdem party, and a I believe an SNP that will be fighting amongst themselves after the loss of Scottish seats to the torries, for the first time in generations ask yourself, was the much hailed Scottish vote to remain unanimous, No therefore, the SNP’s continual clamour for either independence or the to remain must be hacking of a lot of Scottish vote leave voters, were can they go to register a protest
God help us all
The ‘successive’ Europhile British politicians signed us into the EU based on the 1975 ‘Common Market’ mandate.While it’s obvious at best Europhile May intends to sign us up to ‘soft’ Brexit on a ‘hard’ Brexit mandate.On that note how does May’s refusal to rule out soft Brexit fit the script of her supposedly having any intention of delivering the ‘hard’ Brexit that she’s been instructed by the electorate to do.Or for that matter what advantage would there be for the Conservatives in that regard other than pandering to the Europhile Con vote.
As for Brexit being a so called ‘right wing’ agenda how do you explain Kate Hoey’s position or the fact that more Labour voters rightly voted for Brexit than Cons based on her ‘correct’ position.The fact is it’s time to nail the Socialist lie that Federal Soviet style centralist government is good for the working class.When it’s clear that the reality is that it,not surprisingly,just actually helps exploitative free market Capitalism more than it helps the working class.Bearing in mind that,by definition,it isn’t accountable to the electorate.Just as Benn,Shore,Heffer and now Hoey said.So no I don’t buy your nightmare vision but yes we do need a new Eurosceptic wing of the Labour Party led by Hoey to reflect that Eurosceptic Labour vote and to deliver the Brexit that May has no intention whatsoever of delivering.
What ever you think of the politicians who signed us into the EU, it was done legally.
The advantage for the tory party with hard brexit, is the moral high ground, over a generally Europhile political system, in which the tory’s are out to gain all voters whom have aligned themselves to leaving, regardless of the political ideal of said individual voters. May intends to deliver what the referendum asked for, end to free movement being top of the list, thus giving her what she would hope to be a landslide in 2020, in a gesture of gratitude from the voters mate that’s how their minds work
Brexit is not a right wing agenda per sae, but I would reckon that as the labour party is in melt down, it nor any other party are giving any serious opposition to the Tory party, and the brexiteers within the tory party are hard right free marketeers (in the wto sense), so that is the future I see.
Brexit should if the political system worked correctly, give us a clean sheet with which to shape our future, taking back control and all that, but do you ever think that the political system works for the people
“In our dialogue with the European Commission, we have assumed that our cooperation will be based on such principles as objectivism, or respect for sovereignty, subsidiarity, and national identity. However, we have gradually come to realise that interferences into our internal affairs are not characterised by adherence to such principles. On top of that, such actions are largely based on incorrect assumptions which lead to unwarranted conclusions. So we regret to note that the Commission Recommendation is an expression of incomplete knowledge about how the legal system and the Constitutional Tribunal operate in [our country].”
Just another rant from the Brexiteers or indeed the UK government? It’s actually a statement from the Polish government instructing the European Commission that it will defy their rulings because the Commission doesn’t respect Polish sovereignty or understand the Polish legal system. After the Polish government passed legislation allowing it to appoint its own judges to the constitutional court, the EC told them that this was against the rule of law, the first time the EU executive has criticised a member state under its rule-of-law procedure.
Poland is slowly coming to realise that membership of the EU, like membership of the Soviet block, is not compatible with Polish independence. The only difference being the Soviets didn’t pay a large fortune into the Polish economy.
Poland is not on its own however, the Swedes, Austrians and Hungarians are lined up behind them.
There is no need for debate - Tony Blair says it would be best if we have another referendum. We all know how astute he is, so all remainers should just give up now.
eddie snax:
What ever you think of the politicians who signed us into the EU, it was done legally.
The advantage for the tory party with hard brexit, is the moral high ground, over a generally Europhile political system, in which the tory’s are out to gain all voters whom have aligned themselves to leaving, regardless of the political ideal of said individual voters. May intends to deliver what the referendum asked for, end to free movement being top of the list, thus giving her what she would hope to be a landslide in 2020, in a gesture of gratitude from the voters mate that’s how their minds work
Brexit is not a right wing agenda per sae, but I would reckon that as the labour party is in melt down, it nor any other party are giving any serious opposition to the Tory party, and the brexiteers within the tory party are hard right free marketeers (in the wto sense), so that is the future I see.
Brexit should if the political system worked correctly, give us a clean sheet with which to shape our future, taking back control and all that, but do you ever think that the political system works for the people
How was using a referendum mandate for a supposed ‘Common Market’ trade agreement,to then sign us up to the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties,supposedly ‘legal’.
As for the so called Con hard right race to the bottom free markets Brexit agenda I don’t think that is exactly what Davis or Farage are all about or they’d both be shouting for the continuation of free movement in the form of soft Brexit and Turkish membership.But Redwood maybe who knows with that zb.However we aren’t going to get the Redwood v Hoey ( and hopefully,like Farage,Davis ) fight we need without first getting hard Brexit to give us the independence from the Brussels elite we’ll need to do it.IE Juncker or the German bankers or the CBI aren’t our friends in that fight just as they aren’t the friends of the Greek working class.Which explains why you’ve got people like Blair and the majority of the Conservative Party and the CBI on your side for remain.
Stanley Knife: “In our dialogue with the European Commission, we have assumed that our cooperation will be based on such principles as objectivism, or respect for sovereignty, subsidiarity, and national identity. However, we have gradually come to realise that interferences into our internal affairs are not characterised by adherence to such principles. On top of that, such actions are largely based on incorrect assumptions which lead to unwarranted conclusions. So we regret to note that the Commission Recommendation is an expression of incomplete knowledge about how the legal system and the Constitutional Tribunal operate in [our country].”
Just another rant from the Brexiteers or indeed the UK government? It’s actually a statement from the Polish government instructing the European Commission that it will defy their rulings because the Commission doesn’t respect Polish sovereignty or understand the Polish legal system. After the Polish government passed legislation allowing it to appoint its own judges to the constitutional court, the EC told them that this was against the rule of law, the first time the EU executive has criticised a member state under its rule-of-law procedure.
Poland is slowly coming to realise that membership of the EU, like membership of the Soviet block, is not compatible with Polish independence. The only difference being the Soviets didn’t pay a large fortune into the Polish economy.
Poland is not on its own however, the Swedes, Austrians and Hungarians are lined up behind them.
Drip, drip, drip . . .
Yet more confirmation that Farage has made a catastrophic mistake,for UKIP,by going for the return of powers to the Europhile Federalist uk parliament,instead of standing his ground in Europe and going for a Confederal Europe.
The problem then being the terrifying implications and precedent,of a Union based on State rights and State sovereignty,from the point of view of the US government.The same of course applying in the case of the successful secession of any state within the Union.IE make no mistake the US view either as a massive domestic threat.
Well that’s interesting isn’t it, the EU has signed a deal with Canada after ONLY 7 years of negotiations. The deal removes 99% of tariffs and doesn’t come with any requirement of free movement. Sounds like something along the lines of what we want!
Yet when questioned, that nice Mr Jean-Claude Juncker said when asked;
Are there lessons for Brexit? And he replied that he didn’t believe so.
Now I’m no political expert, unlike a few members on here, and I don’t believe I’m a political crack-pot either, unlike a couple of members on here! But I’d like to understand why that twonk Juncker doesn’t think there are any lessons/connections/similarities to the Canadian deal and BREXIT?
Evil8Beezle:
Well that’s interesting isn’t it, the EU has signed a deal with Canada after ONLY 7 years of negotiations. The deal removes 99% of tariffs
You can bet that the Canadian ‘deal’ won’t allow the removal of type approval or duty barriers regarding trade in vehicles and vehicle components.Which I’d guess ‘would’ be more than 1% of the potential trade figure.IE the EU is all for trade so long as it’s in the Germans’ favour.
Evil8Beezle:
Well that’s interesting isn’t it, the EU has signed a deal with Canada after ONLY 7 years of negotiations. The deal removes 99% of tariffs and doesn’t come with any requirement of free movement. Sounds like something along the lines of what we want!
Yet when questioned, that nice Mr Jean-Claude Juncker said when asked;
Are there lessons for Brexit? And he replied that he didn’t believe so.
Now I’m no political expert, unlike a few members on here, and I don’t believe I’m a political crack-pot either, unlike a couple of members on here! But I’d like to understand why that twonk Juncker doesn’t think there are any lessons/connections/similarities to the Canadian deal and BREXIT?
Trying to win favouritism (spelling, I know). Think of British Colombia and French Canadians. It’s a back door stab in the back scenario.
Last report I heard of, Australia supports BREXIT.
Evil8Beezle:
Well that’s interesting isn’t it, the EU has signed a deal with Canada after ONLY 7 years of negotiations. The deal removes 99% of tariffs and doesn’t come with any requirement of free movement. Sounds like something along the lines of what we want!
Yet when questioned, that nice Mr Jean-Claude Juncker said when asked;
Are there lessons for Brexit? And he replied that he didn’t believe so.
Now I’m no political expert, unlike a few members on here, and I don’t believe I’m a political crack-pot either, unlike a couple of members on here! But I’d like to understand why that twonk Juncker doesn’t think there are any lessons/connections/similarities to the Canadian deal and BREXIT?
Trying to win favouritism (spelling, I know). Think of British Colombia and French Canadians. It’s a back door stab in the back scenario.
Last report I heard of, Australia supports BREXIT.
The Ozzies have probably read my plans for unconditional access for Ozzy truck imports here.
On that note money talks.In which case we could also easily trump the EU/Canadian deal by just offering an unconditional free trade deal removing the supposed ‘1%’ not covered in the EU deal.Which,like the Australian example, by default also effectively gives Canada agency status for US-UK trade with the win win of no need then for a UK/US trade deal.
I think that Canada trade deal is supposed to make us “Jealous” somehow, and make us “regret trying to leave”…
The EU sees Brexit as some kind of treason - they rule us, and we’re trying to break away.
Let’s see what happens after the American Elections. I would imagine the Remainer case will get a lot bigger should Hilary end up winning by default, and America then imposes Obama’s “Get to the back of the queue” thing we got threatened with.
Meanwhile, on the other side of the argument - I can live with “being friends” with Trump and Putin - should that prove to be the real political price for Brexit.
Those officials at the top of all this - in my mind, are only “remainers” because they fear the decent hard work they’ll be needing to do to actually earn their wages in future!
For those of us paid by the hour - things can only get better.
Hilary’s poll ratings have slipped over the weekend, complete with more FBI investigations promised “soon”.
If this is cut-and-thrust politics - Trump is doing rather well for a supposed dope and amateur to this “Eternal Sea” game.
There’s no shortage of drivers looking for full-time salaried jobs.
There is a shortage on agencies that are used to cover those full time jobs when they are on leave though.
This means that the hourly paid agency worker has only got to compete with fellow agency “no speke English, dubious licence, and questionable experience from abroad” drivers.
If you are a large firm needing to cover someone’s fortnight off then - who ya gonna call?
Even if it’s "Ghostbusters - firms are going to be paying a lot more than minimum wages to get exactly what you want in future.
…Or risk smashing up the kit, some idiot using the vehicle for “dodgy sideline” activities, or merely being a minimalist worker, because the pay is too low.
This is already happening in Supermarkets, Multidrop, and London work.
Hourly rates are already rising, so I’m not speculating here.
ask yourself, was the much hailed Scottish vote to remain unanimous, No 
therefore, the SNP’s continual clamour for either independence or the to remain must be hacking of a lot of Scottish vote leave voters, were can they go to register a protest 
mate that’s how their minds work 
