BREXIT.

[winseer]

I don’t believe that Theresa May is really stalling - I think it’s all a feint, and she’s in fact a closet brexiteer - but thought she had a shot at becoming PM in the wake of a Cameron departure, should Brexit win - especially by a narrow amount.

She left it rather late to declare in the first place. Cynics might argue that “She wanted to see which way Boris jumped, to make sure she was on the opposite side to him”.
She’s not invoked article 50 straight away, but said nothing more as to why. Cynics think she’s stalling the whole process. I think she might recognize as I do that we can’t actually legally leave the EU by legal means at all. We have to find our own way out, and it isn’t necessarily through that tempting open door that could well be mined and pitfalled all the way along.
She’s been shrewd enough to make sure that SHE got to become PM - and can fly the flag for both halves of the debate - even if that meant pretending to be a remainer.
She made sure Osbourne “went quietly” which was an achievement in itself to “unite the wider party”.
She made a gallant loser of Boris, who has a decent following - even if it’s rather Marmite in flavour, as does Farage. By treating Boris well - she might hope to get a view UKIP voters like me across to support her at the next election.

Thing is - Myself, and others like me - will be staying with UKIP until it’s rendered obsolete by the full implementation of Brexit.
With THAT in mind - it makes sense for Theresa May to keep the election for May 2020 under the “fixed term parliament act” - and there then should be plenty of scope to get Brexit done in time, and scoop the Ukip voters up - because the upside is already starting to be realized by this point.

Hammond is trusted not to do anything connected with “more austerity”. It’ll be hard enough keeping things as they are on that front. The weak pound can be used for some excuses for the time being, but as Labour gets itself back together again - the real work needs to begin soon. “By next March” sounds a perfectly plausible timetable then.

[carryfast]

Franglais:

Carryfast:
No it’s EU free movement rules that ‘invited’ ‘you all’.The Labour rabble,like the Cons,then as now being an enthusiastic pro EU institution.

While you seem to have missed the point that the Labour government or in fact any government has no mandate now to support EU membership or with it free movement.The government’s mandate is now to leave the EU and stop free movement as part of that.We ain’t going to do that by invoking article 50 in March 2017 or even adhering to article 50 at all.

I would suggest that you are missing Dolphs point: when other Eu members put limits on the first Eu migrants from eastern Europe it was a UK national (Labour) decision to allow more in. Art 50 is also a fact. Hiding your head in the sand wont make it go away.
Ignore it? Say were leaving tomorrow? That would mean reversion to WTO terms, which are certainly none too favourable for us. And who would want to make a deal with a country that throws its toys out of the pram if it doesn`t like the contract it freely entered, and reneges on it? I thought we were a more rational and honourable country than you are suggesting.

As I said Labour were,like now,just acting true to form in being enthusiastic supporters of the EU agenda.For which it paid the electoral price and also eventually ending up where we are now with a clear mandate to reverse our EU membership.

Remind us which WTO terms would stop us imposing trade barriers against the EU but which would allow the EU to impose trade barriers against us.Bearing in mind recent 500% tarrifs put on Chinese exports to the US.

The ‘contract’ we had with the EU was based on the lie of it supposedly being just a trading relationship as put to the electorate in 1975.That contract became void as of the recent referendum result.

As for article 50 why is it in anyone’s interests to adhere to the terms of it which effectively remove the right of secession when the EU are supposedly saying they want us gone.Or for that matter how does holding onto the option to stay,when we’re supposed to be leaving,make any difference to the trade argument issue.IE at best that can only mean they say they’ll hit us with trade barriers we say fine then we’ll stay.When the truth is article 50 is all about stopping secession within the EU and the delay in invoking even that is all about the remain agenda playing for time in order to derail Brexit.

[franglais]

Winseer:
I don’t believe that Theresa May is really stalling - I think it’s all a feint, and she’s in fact a closet brexiteer - but thought she had a [zb] at becoming PM in the wake of a Cameron departure, should Brexit win - especially by a narrow amount.

She left it rather late to declare in the first place. Cynics might argue that “She wanted to see which way Boris jumped, to make sure she was on the opposite side to him”.
She’s not invoked article 50 straight away, but said nothing more as to why. Cynics think she’s stalling the whole process. I think she might recognize as I do that we can’t actually legally leave the EU by legal means at all. We have to find our own way out, and it isn’t necessarily through that tempting open door that could well be mined and pitfalled all the way along.
She’s been shrewd enough to make sure that SHE got to become PM - and can fly the flag for both halves of the debate - even if that meant pretending to be a remainer.
She made sure Osbourne “went quietly” which was an achievement in itself to “unite the wider party”.
She made a gallant loser of Boris, who has a decent following - even if it’s rather Marmite in flavour, as does Farage. By treating Boris well - she might hope to get a view UKIP voters like me across to support her at the next election.

Thing is - Myself, and others like me - will be staying with UKIP until it’s rendered obsolete by the full implementation of Brexit.
With THAT in mind - it makes sense for Theresa May to keep the election for May 2020 under the “fixed term parliament act” - and there then should be plenty of scope to get Brexit done in time, and scoop the Ukip voters up - because the upside is already starting to be realized by this point.

Hammond is trusted not to do anything connected with “more austerity”. It’ll be hard enough keeping things as they are on that front. The weak pound can be used for some excuses for the time being, but as Labour gets itself back together again - the real work needs to begin soon. “By next March” sounds a perfectly plausible timetable then.

Great. Excellent news. Nice to know that your Party Political agenda is going to plan. I hope that the increase in my, and the nations, weekly bills is giving you good value.
I see that you trust Hammond not to do “anything connected with more austerity”. I feel the same: he is totally incapable of avoiding more of it.

[dolph]

Will the GB pound keep above water by march is going to be interesting and watched by all of us.
Also on Bulgarian media people are speculating that T.May might resign before the due date for triggering article 50 and call for general election in order to stall the process. Thing will be even worst then today(economically speaking) and people might demand second referendum and canceling Brexit vote.
Thats just speculations, but plausible.

[carryfast]

The-Snowman:

Carryfast:
While you’ve already made your agenda clear which like all the rest of the remainers is all about over turning the vote.In which case at least have the courage to tell the truth about your real reasons for wanting May to stall on the leaving process.Which is all about playing for time to allow the referendum vote to be over turned.

I said I got twitchy, I didnt say id changed my mind and wanted to stay.
And saying I think the result will be overturned is not the same as saying thats what I want.
Stop twisting what people say. Its why no one takes you seriously

I also think the result will be overturned.

The difference being the question why would anyone who supposedly supports Brexit not want to oppose that situation by calling the article 50 delaying tactics what they are,an obvious attempt to derail Brexit and certainly nothing to do with any trade negotiations,let alone the fact that even article 50 itself is designed to stop secession within the EU and should therefore be ignored.

IE anyone who supports Brexit would be calling for the tearing up of article 50 and immediate secession from the EU not the continuation of the delaying tactics.In the knowledge that the delay in question will derail the Brexit process and overturn a democratic referendum decision.

[winseer]

Trade is not worth doing - if it’s at a loss. No one should ever find themselves buying stuff they don’t need - and paying over the odds for it.

Nearly everything we import is “generic” in nature. Eg. Potatoes from Holland are just as tasty as Potatoes from Peru - bearing in mind that Peru is where Potatoes came from in the first place.

Of those things “non-generic” in nature - we are talking about Brand rather than actual goods of a type:

Can we possibly go without BMWs? - We should be saying “They’re too expensive now - I’m not buying one when my car is up for replacement.” rather than “OOOh I MUST have that BMW and rot all those anti-EU types who’ve MADE me pay 16% more for it!”

The cost of living only goes up if we let ourselves be bullied into paying through the nose for our EU trade that was losing us bloody money before all this happened!

Accountancy Lesson One
…If you take away a minus - you make a profit!

Ditch the EU trade routes. Trade with everyone in the world OTHER than the EU. There’s a big wide world out there beyond the suited morons in Brussels…

So. Who’s had their weekly bills INCREASE at the moment then? Really!

If Sainsburys are charging more - go to bloody tescos who’ve succeeding in holding back the prices - even if only temporarily.

We’ve been spoilt for choice for too long. All the drives in the past that tried to get us to “Buy British” never really succeeded in preventing the average Brits from donking their hard-earned Credit limit on foreign stuff they didn’t really need and foreign stuff they’ll now be paying the nose for - to “not give up”.

Shop around. We are all capable of doing thus.

[carryfast]

Winseer:
I don’t believe that Theresa May is really stalling - I think it’s all a feint, and she’s in fact a closet brexiteer - but thought she had a [zb] at becoming PM in the wake of a Cameron departure, should Brexit win - especially by a narrow amount.

She left it rather late to declare in the first place. Cynics might argue that “She wanted to see which way Boris jumped, to make sure she was on the opposite side to him”.
She’s not invoked article 50 straight away, but said nothing more as to why. Cynics think she’s stalling the whole process. I think she might recognize as I do that we can’t actually legally leave the EU by legal means at all. We have to find our own way out, and it isn’t necessarily through that tempting open door that could well be mined and pitfalled all the way along.
She’s been shrewd enough to make sure that SHE got to become PM - and can fly the flag for both halves of the debate - even if that meant pretending to be a remainer.
She made sure Osbourne “went quietly” which was an achievement in itself to “unite the wider party”.
She made a gallant loser of Boris, who has a decent following - even if it’s rather Marmite in flavour, as does Farage. By treating Boris well - she might hope to get a view UKIP voters like me across to support her at the next election.

Thing is - Myself, and others like me - will be staying with UKIP until it’s rendered obsolete by the full implementation of Brexit.
With THAT in mind - it makes sense for Theresa May to keep the election for May 2020 under the “fixed term parliament act” - and there then should be plenty of scope to get Brexit done in time, and scoop the Ukip voters up - because the upside is already starting to be realized by this point.

Hammond is trusted not to do anything connected with “more austerity”. It’ll be hard enough keeping things as they are on that front. The weak pound can be used for some excuses for the time being, but as Labour gets itself back together again - the real work needs to begin soon. “By next March” sounds a perfectly plausible timetable then.

If May is a Leaver not a remainer and realises that article 50 is just a minefield to stop us then she’d obviously have followed UKIP’s idea of taking the non article 50 route out and she’d have done it by now.

As opposed to putting off the date of even the so called article 50 option from January to now March.IE if it looks like a remain duck and quacks like a remain duck then it’s a remain duck.

[winseer]

Dolph:
Will the GB pound keep above water by march is going to be interesting and watched by all of us.
Also on Bulgarian media people are speculating that T.May might resign before the due date for triggering article 50 and call for general election in order to stall the process. Thing will be even worst then today(economically speaking) and people might demand second referendum and canceling Brexit vote.
Thats just speculations, but plausible.

There are actually limits to how far speculators alone can push down the pound.
To trash a currency outright - one has to destroy the country physically first.
There’s no way you can destroy a country by trashing it’s currency first. All that does - is put a right-wing maniac in charge of that partially wounded country that “strangely healed” - a bit like the Serpent’s head in Revelation Chapter 13…

[franglais]

Carryfast:

Franglais:

Carryfast:
No it’s EU free movement rules that ‘invited’ ‘you all’.The Labour rabble,like the Cons,then as now being an enthusiastic pro EU institution.

While you seem to have missed the point that the Labour government or in fact any government has no mandate now to support EU membership or with it free movement.The government’s mandate is now to leave the EU and stop free movement as part of that.We ain’t going to do that by invoking article 50 in March 2017 or even adhering to article 50 at all.

I would suggest that you are missing Dolphs point: when other Eu members put limits on the first Eu migrants from eastern Europe it was a UK national (Labour) decision to allow more in. Art 50 is also a fact. Hiding your head in the sand wont make it go away.
Ignore it? Say were leaving tomorrow? That would mean reversion to WTO terms, which are certainly none too favourable for us. And who would want to make a deal with a country that throws its toys out of the pram if it doesn`t like the contract it freely entered, and reneges on it? I thought we were a more rational and honourable country than you are suggesting.

As I said Labour were,like now,just acting true to form in being enthusiastic supporters of the EU agenda.For which it paid the electoral price and also eventually ending up where we are now with a clear mandate to reverse our EU membership.

Remind us which WTO terms would stop us imposing trade barriers against the EU but which would allow the EU to impose trade barriers against us.Bearing in mind recent 500% tarrifs put on Chinese exports to the US.

The ‘contract’ we had with the EU was based on the lie of it supposedly being just a trading relationship as put to the electorate in 1975.That contract became void as of the recent referendum result.

As for article 50 why is it in anyone’s interests to adhere to the terms of it which effectively remove the right of secession when the EU are supposedly saying they want us gone.Or for that matter how does holding onto the option to stay,when we’re supposed to be leaving,make any difference to the trade argument issue.IE at best that can only mean they say they’ll hit us with trade barriers we say fine then we’ll stay.When the truth is article 50 is all about stopping secession within the EU and the delay in invoking even that is all about the remain agenda playing for time in order to derail Brexit.

The WTO is a package. As a (current) member of the Eu we are also (independent national) members of it. If we renege on part of it we put ourselves out of it totally. Then we would have to negotiate a deal on single aspect of trade with every single aspect of trade with every single country we trade with. 2 years for Brexit… a walk in the park in comparison.
What happened in 75 was changed by various treaties and AGREEMENTS all ratified by our various Governments, of different colours.
Why honour any agreement? So we can be trusted to honour the next one we sign, surely. Who would negotiate with us if we prove ourselves to be the untrustworthy cheats you wish us to become?
I had you down as being above the Trump “spoilt brat” school of thought. Come on no “toys outta the pram”, please.

[winseer]

The “Non Article 50” way of leaving the EU takes longer than “Now” - but less time than “Two Years”.

“By March 2017” falls within that range - so I’m willing to wait and see before getting paranoid about “Theresa May actually stalling for Remain’s benefit” - which I’ll start doing if nothing has happened by Next Easter.

The only way we can leave the EU “overnight” - is by declaring war upon the EU. Not a good idea whilst France are still part of the EU.
Should France and Britain ever find themselves outside the EU though - the EU will finally have been brought to heel. The Germans might fancy themselves as an economic powerhouse right now - but it’s France that are the real military power behind the throne that are actually “on the ground” already as it were…

Patience, Grasshopper!

- YouTube

"When you can take the pebble from my hand - it’ll be time for you to leave."

Pebble from my hand KungFuHD

[carryfast]

Dolph:
Will the GB pound keep above water by march is going to be interesting and watched by all of us.
Also on Bulgarian media people are speculating that T.May might resign before the due date for triggering article 50 and call for general election in order to stall the process. Thing will be even worst then today(economically speaking) and people might demand second referendum and canceling Brexit vote.
Thats just speculations, but plausible.

I think that’s possibly the potential pre planned agenda in the case of a leave win that Cameron had in place from the start.One thing is for sure you won’t stop a large scale secessionist movement in the country by trying to trample it out of existence and you won’t make an enthusiastic EU member state out of one that rightly doesn’t want to be there.

[franglais]

Winseer:
Trade is not worth doing - if it’s at a loss. No one should ever find themselves buying stuff they don’t need - and paying over the odds for it.

Nearly everything we import is “generic” in nature. Eg. Potatoes from Holland are just as tasty as Potatoes from Peru - bearing in mind that Peru is where Potatoes came from in the first place.

Of those things “non-generic” in nature - we are talking about Brand rather than actual goods of a type:

Can we possibly go without BMWs? - We should be saying “They’re too expensive now - I’m not buying one when my car is up for replacement.” rather than “OOOh I MUST have that BMW and rot all those anti-EU types who’ve MADE me pay 16% more for it!”

The cost of living only goes up if we let ourselves be bullied into paying through the nose for our EU trade that was losing us bloody money before all this happened!

Accountancy Lesson One
…If you take away a minus - you make a profit!

Ditch the EU trade routes. Trade with everyone in the world OTHER than the EU. There’s a big wide world out there beyond the suited morons in Brussels…

So. Who’s had their weekly bills INCREASE at the moment then? Really!

If Sainsburys are charging more - go to bloody tescos who’ve succeeding in holding back the prices - even if only temporarily.

We’ve been spoilt for choice for too long. All the drives in the past that tried to get us to “Buy British” never really succeeded in preventing the average Brits from donking their hard-earned Credit limit on foreign stuff they didn’t really need and foreign stuff they’ll now be paying the nose for - to “not give up”.

Shop around. We are all capable of doing thus.

Good thinking, rather than buying an expensive Euro Renault Ill buy a nice cheap Bentley. One with a nice engine designed and built in . . .? Off To Tescos now. Get some fresh veg in before the price hike that youre predicting. Better get a bigger fridge in too, to store it in. Think of the money Ill save. And maybe charge up my electric meter to prepay that electricity Ill need (from EDF via the channel cables).

[carryfast]

Winseer:
The “Non Article 50” way of leaving the EU takes longer than “Now” - but less time than “Two Years”.

“By March 2017” falls within that range - so I’m willing to wait and see before getting paranoid about “Theresa May actually stalling for Remain’s benefit” - which I’ll start doing if nothing has happened by Next Easter.

The only way we can leave the EU “overnight” - is by declaring war upon the EU. Not a good idea whilst France are still part of the EU.

If we’re in the position of it taking war to leave the EU in any way then I’d suggest we’ve already gone past the point where secession from the EU is ever going to be possible on a peaceful basis.

As for patience trust me Brexit won’t survive even a 2 year time scale from now let alone March.The remainers will have taken the initiative away from the leavers long before that point.

IE it’s get out now or never and no I don’t think the French and Germans would even want a trade war in retaliation for us tearing up article 50 in this case let alone a shooting one.That situation will obviously be different for future generations though if we don’t get out now while we can.

[carryfast]

Franglais:
Good thinking, rather than buying an expensive Euro Renault Ill buy a nice cheap Bentley. One with a nice engine designed and built in . . .? Off To Tescos now. Get some fresh veg in before the price hike that youre predicting. Better get a bigger fridge in too, to store it in. Think of the money Ill save. And maybe charge up my electric meter to prepay that electricity Ill need (from EDF via the channel cables).

No who needs the zb Renault when we can import something better and cheaper from the states without tarrifs or EU type approval while we gear up our own manufacturing industry to fill the void left by EU imports.

As for EDF’s over priced nuclear power we can get back to replacing our coal fired power stations by ditching EU energy policies.You know just like the Germans have done.

[carryfast]

Winseer:
There are actually limits to how far speculators alone can push down the pound.
To trash a currency outright - one has to destroy the country physically first.

You mean like de industrialising it to the point where it is a net importer of stuff that it should be self sufficient in.Then prop up the resulting shell with borrowing and quantative easing and artificially low interest rates and false understated inflation figures and an equally false currency value.Thereby creating a debt and currency bomb that can be triggered at any time its people ask for their country back from the asset strippers,bankers and control freaks.Oh wait.

[franglais]

Carryfast:

Franglais:
Good thinking, rather than buying an expensive Euro Renault Ill buy a nice cheap Bentley. One with a nice engine designed and built in . . .? Off To Tescos now. Get some fresh veg in before the price hike that youre predicting. Better get a bigger fridge in too, to store it in. Think of the money Ill save. And maybe charge up my electric meter to prepay that electricity Ill need (from EDF via the channel cables).

No who needs the zb Renault when we can import something better and cheaper from the states without tarrifs or EU type approval while we gear up our own manufacturing industry to fill the void left by EU imports.

As for EDF’s over priced nuclear power we can get back to replacing our coal fired power stations by ditching EU energy policies.You know just like the Germans have done.

Better and cheaper from the USA? What mpg does the USA manufactured car offer? I honestly dont know, but I imagine its not a patch on my 50+mpg VW. No Eu type-approval? OK, lets either let in EVERYTHING, as in all that the world can offer? Or more sensibly, set our own standards. When our experts have finished advising on the new trade agreements we need, maybe thetll have a couple of years free to work out something. I take it you are assuming there would be a free trade agreement with the USA? That is no barriers/tariffs in either direction? So we import their cars, we must equally import their Genetically Modified veg, fruit and meat, from their government subsidised farmers, and accept their standards of food hygiene, and antibiotic use? But as independent producers, I suppose we will be free from Eu regs and can compete equally. By allowing our slaughter men to spray ■■■■ all over the carcases, provided it is all washed off with a good strong bleach afterwards, we may get up to their efficiency levels.
Why do we buy EDFs nuclear?? Good question. Not because its overpriced, its because we cant produce it ourselves at the same, (reprise planning laws arguments) or at any price. Why dont we produce coal generated electricity? well, we both agree, I think, thats due to us having no viable coal mines. Yes, we may disagree about the reasons behind that, but, no coal is, no coal. We are where we are.

[carryfast]

Franglais:

Carryfast:

Franglais:
Good thinking, rather than buying an expensive Euro Renault Ill buy a nice cheap Bentley. One with a nice engine designed and built in . . .? Off To Tescos now. Get some fresh veg in before the price hike that youre predicting. Better get a bigger fridge in too, to store it in. Think of the money Ill save. And maybe charge up my electric meter to prepay that electricity Ill need (from EDF via the channel cables).

No who needs the zb Renault when we can import something better and cheaper from the states without tarrifs or EU type approval while we gear up our own manufacturing industry to fill the void left by EU imports.

As for EDF’s over priced nuclear power we can get back to replacing our coal fired power stations by ditching EU energy policies.You know just like the Germans have done.

Better and cheaper from the USA? What mpg does the USA manufactured car offer? I honestly dont know, but I imagine its not a patch on my 50+mpg VW. No Eu type-approval? OK, lets either let in EVERYTHING, as in all that the world can offer? Or more sensibly, set our own standards. When our experts have finished advising on the new trade agreements we need, maybe thetll have a couple of years free to work out something. I take it you are assuming there would be a free trade agreement with the USA? That is no barriers/tariffs in either direction? So we import their cars, we must equally import their Genetically Modified veg, fruit and meat, from their government subsidised farmers, and accept their standards of food hygiene, and antibiotic use? But as independent producers, I suppose we will be free from Eu regs and can compete equally. By allowing our slaughter men to spray [zb] all over the carcases, provided it is all washed off with a good strong bleach afterwards, we may get up to their efficiency levels.
Why do we buy EDFs nuclear?? Good question. Not because its overpriced, its because we cant produce it ourselves at the same, (reprise planning laws arguments) or at any price. Why dont we produce coal generated electricity? well, we both agree, I think, thats due to us having no viable coal mines. Yes, we may disagree about the reasons behind that, but, no coal is, no coal. We are where we are.

I don’t know of any strings attached to US manufacturing exports that say an importer must also accept a few tonnes of agricultural products as part of the deal. There’s also no trade laws that say we can’t have tarrif free trade with the US on a unilateral basis.IE if we say we are no longer going to apply duty or type approval restrictions to US vehicle imports what would stop us.The fact that such unilateral action would then probably be reciprocated is just a bonus.IE no need for any bs trade deals or WTO involvement all done on a unilateral and product specific basis.

As for getting coal back on line as I said getting rid of EU energy policy would obviously help in that.On that note we haven’t run out of coal we’ve just closed the mines obviously in large part to the benefit of the Frog nuclear energy industry.Which those enthusiastic German EU partners don’t seem to be going along with preferring to say one thing regarding coal while doing the opposite.IE the EU a scam made for the Germans by the Germans.Good luck with that.

Ain’t freedom a ■■■■■.

While your whole case seems to be based on the strange premise that we should be grateful for the privilege of being a net importer of EU goods and aren’t good enough to look after ourselves without the French and Germans.

[dolph]

Carryfast:

Franglais:

Carryfast:

Franglais:
Good thinking, rather than buying an expensive Euro Renault Ill buy a nice cheap Bentley. One with a nice engine designed and built in . . .? Off To Tescos now. Get some fresh veg in before the price hike that youre predicting. Better get a bigger fridge in too, to store it in. Think of the money Ill save. And maybe charge up my electric meter to prepay that electricity Ill need (from EDF via the channel cables).

No who needs the zb Renault when we can import something better and cheaper from the states without tarrifs or EU type approval while we gear up our own manufacturing industry to fill the void left by EU imports.

As for EDF’s over priced nuclear power we can get back to replacing our coal fired power stations by ditching EU energy policies.You know just like the Germans have done.

Better and cheaper from the USA? What mpg does the USA manufactured car offer? I honestly dont know, but I imagine its not a patch on my 50+mpg VW. No Eu type-approval? OK, lets either let in EVERYTHING, as in all that the world can offer? Or more sensibly, set our own standards. When our experts have finished advising on the new trade agreements we need, maybe thetll have a couple of years free to work out something. I take it you are assuming there would be a free trade agreement with the USA? That is no barriers/tariffs in either direction? So we import their cars, we must equally import their Genetically Modified veg, fruit and meat, from their government subsidised farmers, and accept their standards of food hygiene, and antibiotic use? But as independent producers, I suppose we will be free from Eu regs and can compete equally. By allowing our slaughter men to spray [zb] all over the carcases, provided it is all washed off with a good strong bleach afterwards, we may get up to their efficiency levels.
Why do we buy EDFs nuclear?? Good question. Not because its overpriced, its because we cant produce it ourselves at the same, (reprise planning laws arguments) or at any price. Why dont we produce coal generated electricity? well, we both agree, I think, thats due to us having no viable coal mines. Yes, we may disagree about the reasons behind that, but, no coal is, no coal. We are where we are.

I don’t know of any strings attached to US manufacturing exports that say an importer must also accept a few tonnes of agricultural products as part of the deal. There’s also no trade laws that say we can’t have tarrif free trade with the US on a unilateral basis.IE if we say we are no longer going to apply duty or type approval restrictions to US vehicle imports what would stop us.The fact that such unilateral action would then probably be reciprocated is just a bonus.IE no need for any bs trade deals or WTO involvement all done on a unilateral and product specific basis.

As for getting coal back on line as I said getting rid of EU energy policy would obviously help in that.On that note we haven’t run out of coal we’ve just closed the mines obviously in large part to the benefit of the Frog nuclear energy industry.Which those enthusiastic German EU partners don’t seem to be going along with preferring to say one thing regarding coal while doing the opposite.IE the EU a scam made for the Germans by the Germans.Good luck with that.

Ain’t freedom a ■■■■■.

Hahaha, the Americans will rip you inside out in trade negotiation. They might even buy and privatized NHS, then X ray will be $300, MRI $3000, child birth $10 000 and a simple hernia surgery $30 000. Be careful what you wish for regarding trading with US, considering the fact in how bad of position you will be compare to them…

Sturgeon vows Scottish independence vote in event of hard Brexit
theguardian.com/politics/20 … ard-brexit

[carryfast]

Dolph:
Hahaha, the Americans will rip you inside out in trade negotiation. They might even buy and privatized NHS, then X ray will be $300, MRI $3000, child birth $10 000 and a simple hernia surgery $30 000. Be careful what you wish for regarding trading with US, considering the fact in how bad of position you will be compare to them…

Sturgeon vows Scottish independence vote in event of hard Brexit
theguardian.com/politics/20 … ard-brexit

I thought selling out the NHS as part of US trade deals was all about TTIP you know the deal which the EU wants to sign us up to.As for trading with the US yes we’ve been there before like when Ford and GM and ■■■■■■■ etc were happy to be told if they want to sell stuff here then it has to be made here.Or when the US was happy to export engines and drivelines to us which we put in UK made products which were then exported back there in competition with their own finished products.Unlike the deal we got with the EU when GM and Ford transferred production from here to Germany.

As for Sturgeon Scottish ‘Independence’ which means rule by EU Federal government you couldn’t make this zb up.

[winseer]

Good thinking, rather than buying an expensive Euro Renault I`ll buy a nice cheap Bentley. One with a nice engine designed and built in . . .? Off To Tescos now. Get some fresh veg in before the price hike that you`re predicting. Better get a bigger fridge in too, to store it in. Think of the money I`ll save. And maybe charge up my electric meter to prepay that electricity I`ll need (from EDF via the channel cables). [/quote] No who needs the zb Renault when we can import something better and cheaper from the states without tarrifs or EU type approval while we gear up our own manufacturing industry to fill the void left by EU imports.

As for EDF’s over priced nuclear power we can get back to replacing our coal fired power stations by ditching EU energy policies.You know just like the Germans have done.
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Better and cheaper from the USA? What mpg does the USA manufactured car offer? I honestly dont know, but I imagine its not a patch on my 50+mpg VW. No Eu type-approval? OK, lets either let in EVERYTHING, as in all that the world can offer? Or more sensibly, set our own standards. When our experts have finished advising on the new trade agreements we need, maybe thetll have a couple of years free to work out something. I take it you are assuming there would be a free trade agreement with the USA? That is no barriers/tariffs in either direction? So we import their cars, we must equally import their Genetically Modified veg, fruit and meat, from their government subsidised farmers, and accept their standards of food hygiene, and antibiotic use? But as independent producers, I suppose we will be free from Eu regs and can compete equally. By allowing our slaughter men to spray [zb] all over the carcases, provided it is all washed off with a good strong bleach afterwards, we may get up to their efficiency levels.
Why do we buy EDFs nuclear?? Good question. Not because its overpriced, its because we cant produce it ourselves at the same, (reprise planning laws arguments) or at any price. Why dont we produce coal generated electricity? well, we both agree, I think, thats due to us having no viable coal mines. Yes, we may disagree about the reasons behind that, but, no coal is, no coal. We are where we are.
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I don’t know of any strings attached to US manufacturing exports that say an importer must also accept a few tonnes of agricultural products as part of the deal. There’s also no trade laws that say we can’t have tarrif free trade with the US on a unilateral basis.IE if we say we are no longer going to apply duty or type approval restrictions to US vehicle imports what would stop us.The fact that such unilateral action would then probably be reciprocated is just a bonus.IE no need for any bs trade deals or WTO involvement all done on a unilateral and product specific basis.

As for getting coal back on line as I said getting rid of EU energy policy would obviously help in that.On that note we haven’t run out of coal we’ve just closed the mines obviously in large part to the benefit of the Frog nuclear energy industry.Which those enthusiastic German EU partners don’t seem to be going along with preferring to say one thing regarding coal while doing the opposite.IE the EU a scam made for the Germans by the Germans.Good luck with that.

Ain’t freedom a ■■■■■.
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Hahaha, the Americans will rip you inside out in trade negotiation. They might even buy and privatized NHS, then X ray will be $300, MRI $3000, child birth $10 000 and a simple hernia surgery $30 000. Be careful what you wish for regarding trading with US, considering the fact in how bad of position you will be compare to them…

Sturgeon vows Scottish independence vote in event of hard Brexit
theguardian.com/politics/20 … ard-brexit
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Bottom line is, as the loony left AND far right well know - "If you punish the ordinary majority enough - they’ll consider “becoming the tail that KILLS the dog” rather than merely being content on just “wagging it”.

Neanderthals were superior to Sapiens. Once they knew that was 100% the case - the Sapiens who’s only advantage was “there were more of them” - killed them all, and history started again.
The tipping point is “How far do the majority of people have to be pushed” before they’ll consider even starting to break laws in protest at the way they feel they are being treated?
Momentum are trying to accelerate this process to the lower classes.
The Conservatives are split between kicking it into the long grass, or killing it off entirely with a time of unbridled prosperity.
Whoever says “We all want prosperity” is either a liar or doesn’t understand how you control the masses of people that can do the most damage…

Prosperity lies upon the other side of either Anarchy (needing the far right need to rescue us from that) or Smooth Brexit/Natoexit which we’re struggling enough on square one with.
The left think that it’s old ■■■■■ that voted for Brexit and there’s no such thing as a “Young Conservative”.
The right think that it’s champagne socialists that voted for Remain - and there’s no such thing as a “Liberal”.

We’re on an island - a very strategic island - in the middle. But it’s sinking under it’s own weight. We can add ballast or ditch flotsam. Choose your side: Left or Right.