Dolph:
The day she makes this statement UK economy will go belly up, simply the pound will become toilet paper.
SUI is ideal example if you want to pick and choose which of the 4 principles to follow. Either all or non. You want freedom and independence, then pay the freaking tariffs and trade with EU on WTO rules. No, you want access to the EU market, but restricting EU nationals and EU legislation. Do you really think that EU is insane to grant you such a privilege, a privilege that no one have. And frankly why giving you have access to the single market, when everything made in UK and sold in EU can be made in EU. Like Nissan moving to Spain or Slovakia for example. You don’t want to be part of the EU project, vision and values, be on your own and enjoy it(I mean it, Im not sarcastic).
“Funny. I went to the gym the other day and they wouldn’t let me use the facilities. I think it’s outrageous that they are punishing me like this for getting rid of my membership a few months ago.”
You’re avin a larf.We stop free movement and the pound becomes worthless.Based on exactly what economic evidence or historic precedent.
While ironically I actually I prefer your trade idea.Great Nissan etc can build all of its Euro market products there.While it and Renault,Fiat,BMW and Mercedes,Scania and DAF etc etc have to make every part,of every product,destined for the UK market,here.
As for the gym I might be able to put up with being ripped off on the price and profit margin you charge.But the fact that you also want me to sign over the ownership of and decide who lives in my house is a deal breaker.
the nodding donkey:
An EU wide minimum wage? Really? £8.50 per hour to drive a wagon in the Czech Republic? I’ll be on my way now. Or do you mean £2.50 per hour in Britain?
I remain yours
Confused
Tunbridge Wells
+1
I will live as a king in BG with that wage, considering the fact that I own my apartment and car over there.
I support Carryfast in his fight with Brussels to impose EU NMW!!!
You do know that would mean prices having to be harmonised too.The point being net removal of the relative difference in wages in real terms thereby reducing the pull factor regarding EE economic migration.Or undercutting of the west euro work force in the transfer of industry eastward.
While if you support the idea there’d obviously be more chance of that in a Confederal Europe that makes the MEP’s democratically accountable to their own electorates.As opposed to a Federal one which doesn’t.
Prices in Bulgaria are more expensive then in Western Europe, a lot more expensive. Few examples the diapers for my daughter are 40lv(19GBP), here they are 9,50GBP and the package is bigger. A simple chocolate bar Twix there is 1,00-1,30lv(50p), here I bought 8 for 2.00GBP. Its like this with all prices. Believe me Eastern Europeans would love to have the prices of the West + quality of items destined to Western Europe.
And yet you said before that you could live like a king in East Euro on £8.50 per hour.Make your mind up.
Dolph:
The day she makes this statement UK economy will go belly up, simply the pound will become toilet paper.
SUI is ideal example if you want to pick and choose which of the 4 principles to follow. Either all or non. You want freedom and independence, then pay the freaking tariffs and trade with EU on WTO rules. No, you want access to the EU market, but restricting EU nationals and EU legislation. Do you really think that EU is insane to grant you such a privilege, a privilege that no one have. And frankly why giving you have access to the single market, when everything made in UK and sold in EU can be made in EU. Like Nissan moving to Spain or Slovakia for example. You don’t want to be part of the EU project, vision and values, be on your own and enjoy it(I mean it, Im not sarcastic).
“Funny. I went to the gym the other day and they wouldn’t let me use the facilities. I think it’s outrageous that they are punishing me like this for getting rid of my membership a few months ago.”
You’re avin a larf.We stop free movement and the pound becomes worthless.Based on exactly what economic evidence or historic precedent.
While ironically I actually I prefer your trade idea.Great Nissan etc can build all of its Euro market products there.While it and Renault,Fiat,BMW and Mercedes,Scania and DAF etc etc have to make every part,of every product,destined for the UK market,here.
As for the gym I might be able to put up with being ripped off on the price and profit margin you charge.But the fact that you also want me to sign over the ownership of and decide who lives in my house is a deal breaker.
Don’t play smart a$$ on me, you know very well what you written in your previous post. The word “repatriate” does not mean stop it means forcefully or voluntarily expulsion aka deportation! You ask for evidence… well based on the evidence when Teresa may Government makes Brexit statement like last week announced for hard brexit as her goal and Amber Rudd who want employers to disclose immigrant employees, the pound took historic blow. Imagine if she announces deportation of EU migrants who were lawfully residing in UK while UK was still full member of EU. Its gonna be catastrophe.
[/quote]
You do know that would mean prices having to be harmonised too.The point being net removal of the relative difference in wages in real terms thereby reducing the pull factor regarding EE economic migration.Or undercutting of the west euro work force in the transfer of industry eastward.
While if you support the idea there’d obviously be more chance of that in a Confederal Europe that makes the MEP’s democratically accountable to their own electorates.As opposed to a Federal one which doesn’t.
[/quote]
Prices in Bulgaria are more expensive then in Western Europe, a lot more expensive. Few examples the diapers for my daughter are 40lv(19GBP), here they are 9,50GBP and the package is bigger. A simple chocolate bar Twix there is 1,00-1,30lv(50p), here I bought 8 for 2.00GBP. Its like this with all prices. Believe me Eastern Europeans would love to have the prices of the West + quality of items destined to Western Europe.
[/quote]
And yet you said before that you could live like a king in East Euro on £8.50 per hour.Make your mind up.
[/quote]
For native English speaker your reading comprehension its like of a 5th grader
Dolph:
Don’t play smart a$$ on me, you know very well what you written in your previous post. The word “repatriate” does not mean stop it means forcefully or voluntarily expulsion aka deportation! You ask for evidence… well based on the evidence when Teresa may Government makes Brexit statement like last week announced for hard brexit as her goal and Amber Rudd who want employers to disclose immigrant employees, the pound took historic blow. Imagine if she announces deportation of EU migrants who were lawfully residing in UK while UK was still full member of EU. Its gonna be catastrophe.
‘Stop’ in this case obviously also means retrospective repatriation of those who,as you said yourself,decide to all run for the door between the referendum vote and us actually leaving.Bearing in mind the government’s obvious stalling tactics and the in built catch 22 within article 50 in that regard even if she decides to activate it now let alone in March.Without that provision the so called ending of free movement in the leave manifesto would be worthless because those who want to come here could all come because they would obviously have years in which to do it if we stick rigidly to the terms of article 50 let alone add more time by delaying it.While as we’ve seen article 50 is just a bs catch 22 that stops secession of a member state anyway.
As for May’ bs non existent statement in that regard why would the pound only now be affected by that specific part of the free movement issue which was already a known part of our reason for leaving.Or for that matter what is the exact economic link between the value of the pound v our domestic immigration policy anyway.
IE if it looks and sounds like a remain plot,to circumvent the free movement part of the deal,by way of stalling tactics and if that isn’t shown to work economic sanctions,then it is one.On that note if May had any intention of hard Brexit ( non EEA member state ) or in fact any intention of Brexit at all,she’d have already ditched article 50 and walked away from the EU before now.Together with a statement that Brexit means non EEA member state and free movement rules are to apply retrospectively to the date of the referendum decision.
While if the remainers and their German masters didn’t think that she’s just playing for time in that regard to keep us in they’d have done their worst regarding economic sanctions against us already.Not just use them as a threat to be wheeled out any/every time that Davis says/does something they don’t like.Which was ironically in this case just a part of the diversion process from the real remain agenda.
While what ‘her’ ( Davis’ ) so called ‘statement’ has done is just shown the government’s true hand in doing whatever it takes to over turn the referendum decision and the lengths which the EU Federalist agenda is going to go to keep us in,having mistaken what was just a government diversionary exercise to keep the naive Brexit vote on side,as the real thing.So the cat is out of the bag we stop free movement then the bankers in Frankfurt and their puppets here hit us with economic sanctions by flaming the pound.
I’m assuming that there are rural parts of East Europe where a low UK wage goes a long way - and such areas are having people in the UK sending money back to their folks at home there.
Then there are the cities and seaside resorts in Eastern Europe - which are four times the cost of living.
I’ve seen this in places like Egypt, where you CAN live like a Pharaoh in a town like Luxor on about £20 per day.
In a costal town like Sharm el Sheik or Hurghada though - It’s more than that per night just to stay in a hotel there! Overall cost of living is around the £100-£120 mark. Even a cheap tourist hotel will have you burning £80 per day.
Net result? - I always stayed in Luxor where you get a 5* (4 star by our standards) hotel for around $18 per night.
People are starving in Luxor - because the tourists are not going there any more, all the instability in the middle east thing.
I went there three years after the Hatshepsut Temple terrorist attack - and prices had fallen to the levels I depicted by that point, and in the case of Luxor - have never recovered.
Talk to those over the past few years that continue to go to Egypt - and it’s always bloody Sharm el Sheik or Hurghada - so I’m guessing that the Tourists nowadays think paying well over the odds for their stay - is “Terror Proof” somehow… There have already been numerous attacks though.
All in all then, you have a vast differential in “cost of living” inside the same countries abroad - all to do with the disruption of trade routes which I put as the main cause in a previous post.
Dolph:
Funny. I went to the gym the other day and they wouldn’t let me use the facilities. I think it’s outrageous that they are punishing me like this for getting rid of my membership a few months ago."
But if instead of just quitting, THEN trying to use the facilities, what you could have done has said you intented to quit but you’d stay a member just now and still pay your membership but you’d like to negotiate a way to still use the facilities and come to some sort of agreement with the gym where you are both happy.
Sounds a better idea then saying “im quitting, heres my notice”, then trying desperetly to negotiate with the clock ticking as all your gym needs to do is stall and make outrageous demands as the time runs out and you end up getting shafted as you are out of time and have no leverage.
Im just glad all those who are demanding article 50 be invoked immedietely are not in charge of any negotiating on my behalf as the basic principle of “dont paint yourself into a corner” seems to be lost on them.
Dolph:
Funny. I went to the gym the other day and they wouldn’t let me use the facilities. I think it’s outrageous that they are punishing me like this for getting rid of my membership a few months ago."
But if instead of just quitting, THEN trying to use the facilities, what you could have done has said you intented to quit but you’d stay a member just now and still pay your membership but you’d like to negotiate a way to still use the facilities and come to some sort of agreement with the gym where you are both happy.
Sounds a better idea then saying “im quitting, heres my notice”, then trying desperetly to negotiate with the clock ticking as all your gym needs to do is stall and make outrageous demands as the time runs out and you end up getting shafted as you are out of time and have no leverage.
Im just glad all those who are demanding article 50 be invoked immedietely are not in charge of any negotiating on my behalf as the basic principle of “dont paint yourself into a corner” seems to be lost on them.
You are talking about the same people who voted to ‘get their country back’, who thought that Boris would plough £350.000.000 into the NHS every week, and who keep bleating on how we 'will be a strong, independent country just like we used to be before we joined Europe '.
Dolph:
Funny. I went to the gym the other day and they wouldn’t let me use the facilities. I think it’s outrageous that they are punishing me like this for getting rid of my membership a few months ago."
But if instead of just quitting, THEN trying to use the facilities, what you could have done has said you intented to quit but you’d stay a member just now and still pay your membership but you’d like to negotiate a way to still use the facilities and come to some sort of agreement with the gym where you are both happy.
Sounds a better idea then saying “im quitting, heres my notice”, then trying desperetly to negotiate with the clock ticking as all your gym needs to do is stall and make outrageous demands as the time runs out and you end up getting shafted as you are out of time and have no leverage.
Im just glad all those who are demanding article 50 be invoked immedietely are not in charge of any negotiating on my behalf as the basic principle of “dont paint yourself into a corner” seems to be lost on them.
You are talking about the same people who voted to ‘get their country back’, who thought that Boris would plough £350.000.000 into the NHS every week, and who keep bleating on how we 'will be a strong, independent country just like we used to be before we joined Europe '.
Well whos to say we cant be?
When I left full time employment and set up on my own, it wasnt a roaring success overnight. I had the security of money coming in but I wanted more. Not in a greedy way but I didnt like what my outlays to the parent company were so I decided to set up my own limited company and go it alone.
Was it difficult? Too bloody right it was. More than a few times I rode the edge of financial ruin and didnt know what I was doing from one week to the next. But with careful planning, I made it.
My point is that when anyone goes it alone there are always bumps in the road and hiccups and its never plain sailing but the end rewards usually justify the risk if carful thought and planning goes into each move thats made. Thats whats happening here as far as I can see. The UK is getting its ducks in a row BEFORE packing itself into a corner by putting a great big ticking clock on things. What person in their right mind would start that clock THEN try to negotiate with the likes of Germany and France? Why not get things sorted then do it?
I get the impression some of the remainers actually WANT things to go badly so when it goes ■■■■ up they can scream “told you all so”
To tell you the truth, I think Britain needs to prepare for a reaming without lubricant… A lot of European countries are looking forward to the opportunity to stick in a knife, and twist.
You have spend decades ■■■■■■■ off the other countries by demanding special treatment. Expecting a seat at the table, with veto rights, but always wanting separate conditions and exemptions on treaties. Persistently attempting to block other (Eastern European countries, and Turkey) in their attempts to join. Wanting the big agricultural subsidies, but also wanting a rebate. Wanting all the good bits, without joining fully and sharing the ups and the downs.
Don’t forget, that under the veneer of European Unity, still boils the nationalist identity of each European Country. The French don’t like the Germans, nor the English. The Germans still think they are superior, and born to rule Europe (and in a financial sense, they are closer than Hitler ever was…). The English don’t like any foreigners, and still think they command an empire. The Spanish don’t care, as they are ■■■■■■, but will throw big spanners in any negotiations with Britain. I don’t think Greece will be on your side either.
Germany will already be eying up what little industry we have left. The French will sabotage any attempt at negotiations. And the French and the Germans will try (and likely succeed ) to lure the financial and services industries to Frankfurter and/or Paris.
To end with a quote from the Waterboys: "Old England is dying ".
the nodding donkey:
To tell you the truth, I think Britain needs to prepare for a reaming without lubricant… A lot of European countries are looking forward to the opportunity to stick in a knife, and twist.
You have spend decades ■■■■■■■ off the other countries by demanding special treatment. Expecting a seat at the table, with veto rights, but always wanting separate conditions and exemptions on treaties. Persistently attempting to block other (Eastern European countries, and Turkey) in their attempts to join. Wanting the big agricultural subsidies, but also wanting a rebate. Wanting all the good bits, without joining fully and sharing the ups and the downs.
Don’t forget, that under the veneer of European Unity, still boils the nationalist identity of each European Country. The French don’t like the Germans, nor the English. The Germans still think they are superior, and born to rule Europe (and in a financial sense, they are closer than Hitler ever was…). The English don’t like any foreigners, and still think they command an empire. The Spanish don’t care, as they are [zb], but will throw big spanners in any negotiations with Britain. I don’t think Greece will be on your side either.
Germany will already be eying up what little industry we have left. The French will sabotage any attempt at negotiations. And the French and the Germans will try (and likely succeed ) to lure the financial and services industries to Frankfurter and/or Paris.
To end with a quote from the Waterboys: "Old England is dying ".
In all honesty, I dont think brexit is actually going to happen anyway.
Maybe im a miserable cynic but all these scare stories, of price rises, of unemployment, of companies abandoning the UK, of interest rate rises, of falling pound values, all these make me think they are lining up to say in a few months “Look, lets have another vote just to be sure” then they will get the remain verdict they want.
I voted leave but I didnt realise just how clueless the leave camp where and I started getting twitchy when the biggest voices shoved their hands in their pockets, started whistling and slowly backed away two days after the result. Its like they were caught short as they didnt expect it and hadnt planned for it as there was no point
the nodding donkey:
To tell you the truth, I think Britain needs to prepare for a reaming without lubricant… A lot of European countries are looking forward to the opportunity to stick in a knife, and twist.
You have spend decades ■■■■■■■ off the other countries by demanding special treatment. Expecting a seat at the table, with veto rights, but always wanting separate conditions and exemptions on treaties. Persistently attempting to block other (Eastern European countries, and Turkey) in their attempts to join. Wanting the big agricultural subsidies, but also wanting a rebate. Wanting all the good bits, without joining fully and sharing the ups and the downs.
Don’t forget, that under the veneer of European Unity, still boils the nationalist identity of each European Country. The French don’t like the Germans, nor the English. The Germans still think they are superior, and born to rule Europe (and in a financial sense, they are closer than Hitler ever was…). The English don’t like any foreigners, and still think they command an empire. The Spanish don’t care, as they are [zb], but will throw big spanners in any negotiations with Britain. I don’t think Greece will be on your side either.
Germany will already be eying up what little industry we have left. The French will sabotage any attempt at negotiations. And the French and the Germans will try (and likely succeed ) to lure the financial and services industries to Frankfurter and/or Paris.
To end with a quote from the Waterboys: "Old England is dying ".
In all honesty, I dont think brexit is actually going to happen anyway.
Maybe im a miserable cynic but all these scare stories, of price rises, of unemployment, of companies abandoning the UK, of interest rate rises, of falling pound values, all these make me think they are lining up to say in a few months “Look, lets have another vote just to be sure” then they will get the remain verdict they want.
I voted leave but I didnt realise just how clueless the leave camp where and I started getting twitchy when the biggest voices shoved their hands in their pockets, started whistling and slowly backed away two days after the result. Its like they were caught short as they didnt expect it and hadnt planned for it as there was no point
Exactly. I hope you are right, ( I think that that is the intention of the government, possibly already done a deal with Europe to that effect) because Britain won’t be a nice place out of Europe. And if Britain leaves Europe, the repurcussions will be massive in Europe too.
Let no brexiteers be in any doubt, that the sole purpose of any negotiations from Europe’s point, are about warning off other European countries of trying to leave. There will be no trading with Europe, on any of our terms. Any.
Dolph:
Funny. I went to the gym the other day and they wouldn’t let me use the facilities. I think it’s outrageous that they are punishing me like this for getting rid of my membership a few months ago."
But if instead of just quitting, THEN trying to use the facilities, what you could have done has said you intented to quit but you’d stay a member just now and still pay your membership but you’d like to negotiate a way to still use the facilities and come to some sort of agreement with the gym where you are both happy.
Sounds a better idea then saying “im quitting, heres my notice”, then trying desperetly to negotiate with the clock ticking as all your gym needs to do is stall and make outrageous demands as the time runs out and you end up getting shafted as you are out of time and have no leverage.
Im just glad all those who are demanding article 50 be invoked immedietely are not in charge of any negotiating on my behalf as the basic principle of “dont paint yourself into a corner” seems to be lost on them.
Exactly what so called ‘leverage’,does saying we’ve voted to leave but we won’t leave we’ll stay until further notice,supposedly give us.Other than ‘leverage’ for the remainers to play for time to over turn the decision.
What you’ve described is just the same remain agenda of bs renegotiation that Cameron tried to push before the referendum.When the fact is we’ve had the referendum the remainers lost and now we want May to deliver on getting us out as she’s supposedly promised and we won’t do that by stalling the process or going along with the bs conditions contained in article 50.On that note there’s nothing for the gym owners to stall on because staying with their zb club isn’t an option and when it’s obviously the remainers here doing all the stalling.Basically the choice is leave and if they then want a trade war they can have one.Or stay.It’s clear that the remainers,including May,are all about the latter by playing for time to over turn the vote because she hasn’t got the balls or inclination to carry out the former nor telling the remainers and Merkel to do one.
the nodding donkey:
To tell you the truth, I think Britain needs to prepare for a reaming without lubricant… A lot of European countries are looking forward to the opportunity to stick in a knife, and twist.
You have spend decades ■■■■■■■ off the other countries by demanding special treatment. Expecting a seat at the table, with veto rights, but always wanting separate conditions and exemptions on treaties. Persistently attempting to block other (Eastern European countries, and Turkey) in their attempts to join. Wanting the big agricultural subsidies, but also wanting a rebate. Wanting all the good bits, without joining fully and sharing the ups and the downs.
Don’t forget, that under the veneer of European Unity, still boils the nationalist identity of each European Country. The French don’t like the Germans, nor the English. The Germans still think they are superior, and born to rule Europe (and in a financial sense, they are closer than Hitler ever was…). The English don’t like any foreigners, and still think they command an empire. The Spanish don’t care, as they are [zb], but will throw big spanners in any negotiations with Britain. I don’t think Greece will be on your side either.
Germany will already be eying up what little industry we have left. The French will sabotage any attempt at negotiations. And the French and the Germans will try (and likely succeed ) to lure the financial and services industries to Frankfurter and/or Paris.
To end with a quote from the Waterboys: "Old England is dying ".
In all honesty, I dont think brexit is actually going to happen anyway.
Maybe im a miserable cynic but all these scare stories, of price rises, of unemployment, of companies abandoning the UK, of interest rate rises, of falling pound values, all these make me think they are lining up to say in a few months “Look, lets have another vote just to be sure” then they will get the remain verdict they want.
I voted leave but I didnt realise just how clueless the leave camp where and I started getting twitchy when the biggest voices shoved their hands in their pockets, started whistling and slowly backed away two days after the result. Its like they were caught short as they didnt expect it and hadnt planned for it as there was no point
Exactly. I hope you are right, ( I think that that is the intention of the government, possibly already done a deal with Europe to that effect) because Britain won’t be a nice place out of Europe. And if Britain leaves Europe, the repurcussions will be massive in Europe too.
Let no brexiteers be in any doubt, that the sole purpose of any negotiations from Europe’s point, are about warning off other European countries of trying to leave. There will be no trading with Europe, on any of our terms. Any.
Yes we know that the remainers will over turn the vote.Which is why we’ve now got remainer May as PM instead of remainer Cameron.As for the Federalists acting true to form in ignoring democracy to impose dictatorial Federal rule.As I said history suggests that’s never had a peaceful ending or been solved peacefully.In which case you’re making a grave mistake in thinking that the issue of self determination here against foreign federal takeover will just go away.As opposed to it growing stronger in successive generations to the point where as usual the issue of secession is settled by force.Federalists over turning the referendum vote in this case will be a historic marker in that process.
As for Britain not being a nice place out of the EU federal zb pile.Being ruled by people like Merkel and Juncker in a dictatorial environment in which revenge is taken against any state or anyone daring to mention secession and self determination,is so much better.As for nodding donkey’s bollox at least that proves where the loyalties of the immigrant population really sit which certainly isn’t with their place of residence here.
Carryfast:
Exactly what so called ‘leverage’,does saying we’ve voted to leave but we won’t leave we’ll stay until further notice,supposedly give us.
It doesnt give us any. But if we invoke article 50 THEN try to negotiate, all the leverage and power is with them.
When I bought my car last week, do you think I said to them “oh my mot and tax is up soon so im desperate to make a deal before then?” Did I hell. As soon as I put a clock on it, they had the upper hand to play hardball. All they had to do was stall till my time ran out then I had no option but to bend over for the terms they gave.
The difference there was that I could walk away with no repercussions. Despite what you seem to think, we cant NOT do deals with the EU. I dont care what you say, there is no way we can survive without trading with them and if you put the two year clock on it, they will stall till May blinks first and we can end up getting shafted more than we were as a member to be made an example of. I told you all this was a possibilty BEFORE the referendum and all your expert knowledge on all things political couldnt see it
Carryfast:
Being ruled by people like Merkel and Juncker in a dictatorial environment in which revenge is taken against any state or anyone daring to mention secession and self determination
I agree with you there to a certain extent. Not the secession part as thats ridiculous to even think that is a possibilty but the way they are threatening to harm us to scare other countries from leaving. Its a very dictatoral attitude and does not sit well with me, Its like they are trying to rule with an iron fist and everyone must obey their rule or suffer
Carryfast:
Exactly what so called ‘leverage’,does saying we’ve voted to leave but we won’t leave we’ll stay until further notice,supposedly give us.
It doesnt give us any. But if we invoke article 50 THEN try to negotiate, all the leverage and power is with them.
When I bought my car last week, do you think I said to them “oh my mot and tax is up soon so im desperate to make a deal before then?” Did I hell. As soon as I put a clock on it, they had the upper hand to play hardball. All they had to do was stall till my time ran out then I had no option but to bend over for the terms they gave.
The difference there was that I could walk away with no repercussions. Despite what you seem to think, we cant NOT do deals with the EU. I dont care what you say, there is no way we can survive without trading with them and if you put the two year clock on it, they will stall till May blinks first and we can end up getting shafted more than we were as a member to be made an example of. I told you all this was a possibilty BEFORE the referendum and all your expert knowledge on all things political couldnt see it
If you’ve admitted that saying we’ll stay predictably doesn’t give us any leverage bearing in mind we’ve already said we’re leaving how does then carrying out the decision to leave then supposedly give the EU any leverage that it supposedly didn’t have before.Meanwhile exactly what so called ‘leverage’ is it that the EU has over us as a non EU member state.
While you’ve already made your agenda clear which like all the rest of the remainers is all about over turning the vote.In which case at least have the courage to tell the truth about your real reasons for wanting May to stall on the leaving process.Which is all about playing for time to allow the referendum vote to be over turned.
Carryfast:
Being ruled by people like Merkel and Juncker in a dictatorial environment in which revenge is taken against any state or anyone daring to mention secession and self determination
I agree with you there to a certain extent. Not the secession part as thats ridiculous to even think that is a possibilty but the way they are threatening to harm us to scare other countries from leaving. Its a very dictatoral attitude and does not sit well with me, Its like they are trying to rule with an iron fist and everyone must obey their rule or suffer
You do know that us leaving the EU as in any case of a nation state leaving a Federation is an example of secession. Which is why people like China and the US are zb scared about the possibility of us pulling it off.
On that note you did actually read what nodding donkey said.
Carryfast:
Being ruled by people like Merkel and Juncker in a dictatorial environment in which revenge is taken against any state or anyone daring to mention secession and self determination
I agree with you there to a certain extent. Not the secession part as thats ridiculous to even think that is a possibilty but the way they are threatening to harm us to scare other countries from leaving. Its a very dictatoral attitude and does not sit well with me, Its like they are trying to rule with an iron fist and everyone must obey their rule or suffer
You do know that us leaving the EU as in any case of a nation state leaving a Federation is an example of secession. Which is why people like China and the US are zb scared about the possibility of us pulling it off.
On that note you did actually read what nodding donkey said.
Which is why people like China and the US are zb scared about the possibility of us pulling it off. 
