Harry Monk:
Franglais:
And generally speaking the Brexiteers, who won the vote, have been very quiet and modest about the vast gains that have been made since our exit…
One might almost say…silent…
The reversal of 15 years of wage stagnation and the biggest increase in wages that I’ve seen in 36 years of doing the job was nice.
I’m sure that if you drove a truck for a living you’d feel the same.
Pay increases are always nice!
But if associated with inflation, an increase in figures doesn`t mean much, does it?
Currently around 9% and some forecasts around 14%.
15 years of wage stagnation? The ONS doesn`t seem to think so.
statista.com/statistics/100 … in-the-uk/
We weren``t a member of the EU for just 15 years were we? As members of the Common Market etc did we have wage stagnation? No.
Look at this graph of UK GDP per capita:
data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY … cations=GB
Does that show the EU dragging us down since 1970?
It clearly shows the global crash of 2008 (15 years ago) and the UK struggling afterwards.
Have other EU countries done better or worse than the UK? Is the EU responsible for our poor performance?
Denmark Eire Finland France Germany have all done better. Their politicians aren`t pointing fingers at the EU are they?
Have they had 15years of wage stagnation?
The problems we have had with the economy hasn`t been due to the “big bad EU” that the Tory owned press tells you about.
Franglais:
Pay increases are always nice!
But if associated with inflation, an increase in figures doesn`t mean much, does it?
Currently around 9% and some forecasts around 14%.
15 years of wage stagnation? The ONS doesn`t seem to think so.
statista.com/statistics/100 … in-the-uk/
We weren``t a member of the EU for just 15 years were we? As members of the Common Market etc did we have wage stagnation? No.
Look at this graph of UK GDP per capita:
data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY … cations=GB
Does that show the EU dragging us down since 1970?
It clearly shows the global crash of 2008 (15 years ago) and the UK struggling afterwards.
Have other EU countries done better or worse than the UK? Is the EU responsible for our poor performance?
Denmark Eire Finland France Germany have all done better. Their politicians aren`t pointing fingers at the EU are they?
Have they had 15years of wage stagnation?
The problems we have had with the economy hasn`t been due to the “big bad EU” that the Tory owned press tells you about.
Time to get over it old boy!
Franglais:
We weren``t a member of the EU for just 15 years were we? As members of the Common Market etc did we have wage stagnation? No.
The Common Market expanded slowly, one or two countries at a time and only when their economies were sufficiently in line with those of existing members until 2004 when the first multi-country expansion, involving countries with post-Communist economies occurred. Up to that point I supported eu membership. Wages for HGV drivers instantly stagnated from that point.
This expansion is of course in large part the reason behind the war in Ukraine.
Harry Monk:
Franglais:
We weren``t a member of the EU for just 15 years were we? As members of the Common Market etc did we have wage stagnation? No.
The Common Market expanded slowly, one or two countries at a time and only when their economies were sufficiently in line with those of existing members until 2004 when the first multi-country expansion, involving countries with post-Communist economies occurred. Up to that point I supported eu membership. Wages for HGV drivers instantly stagnated from that point.
This expansion is of course in large part the reason behind the war in Ukraine.
Spot on Harry, I always said that if the EU hadn’t taken in the whole of the ex commie bloc then brexit wouldn’t have happened, they went too far too quickly, something that the remoaning community don’t seem to grasp.
Harry Monk:
Franglais:
We weren``t a member of the EU for just 15 years were we? As members of the Common Market etc did we have wage stagnation? No.
Dear Harry,
Interesting point.
The Common Market expanded slowly, one or two countries at a time and only when their economies were sufficiently in line with those of existing members until 2004 when the first multi-country expansion, involving countries with post-Communist economies occurred. Up to that point I supported eu membership. Wages for HGV drivers instantly stagnated from that point.
This expansion is of course in large part the reason behind the war in Ukraine.
The expansion was slow as you say, and then became more rapid after the fall of the Iron Curtain in 89. We can I hope agree on that.
I think that most would agree that the fall of Soviet Communism was a good thing?
But we can see from here that the dialing down of the cold war at that time, and the greater security for the west did have a cost. I won`t argue with you.
Given that the Ex CommieBlok became free what were the alternatives then? Could Western Germany hold the DDR at arm`s length?
Should they/we as a group held all those poorer countries further away for longer? How would that have played out, in the real world?
The world isn`t a place where we get richer every single day. Sometimes we do things that make our wealth grow more slowly.
I don`t think that any economists would have actually wanted that big block of newly free countries all joining at the same time, if short term wealth was all they cared about. But they did all arrive on our doorstep at that time. Given that it was a unique world situation, we did the right thing I think.
Best Regards
Franglais
Driving lorries for a living (apart from 2 years in transport office) since 1975 
Franglais:
But if associated with inflation, an increase in figures doesn`t mean much, does it?
Currently around 9% and some forecasts around 14%.
.
I remember mortgage and interest rates in the 90’s of around 14%, I’m sure that was before Brexit. The difference between then and now is that back then I had a young family coupled to paltry wages, whereas now I have a post Brexit 20% pay increase to cushion the blow a tad.
The twitterati can ■■■■ and bleat all they want, but two undeniable truths are evident ; firstly you lost a democratic vote, and secondly previously artificially stagnated wages have massively increased. Looks like a double win for me, but sadly only the one for you.
Edit to add; no need to thank me for your wage increase, you’re welcome 
the maoster:
Edit to add; no need to thank me for your wage increase, you’re welcome
Well, thank you anyway.
And I`m sure those drivers in France I know who have also had nice wage rises this year will doubtless be wanting to thank you too.
Nice how Brexit has resulted in a driver shortage, even in the USA!
Correlation does not imply Causation.
I challenge you to provide one of your links to prove that drivers in any single EU country has enjoyed wage increases to the extent of those enjoyed by those working for British companies.
the maoster:
I challenge you to provide one of your links to prove that drivers in any single EU country has enjoyed wage increases to the extent of those enjoyed by those working for British companies.
Which would, or wouldnt, prove what? Some EU countries have better pay for truck drivers, some have worse. They have different levels of housing costs etc. But then, many have been getting regular pay rises for years, so wont be getting big rises because they aren`t coming from a low level.
The EU has no “austerity budget”. The UK chose to have an austerity led policy for many years. It hasn`t done too well for the country, and certainly not well at all for workers.
Gini index has been increasing lately as the wealth gap increases.
Seem to remember arguing with Mazzer over this.
As I recall German truckers are well paid. They are in the EU. Their drivers arent badly off. I know some ex-UK lads who drive for French companies, they arent badly off. They have been getting reasonable rises for years.
The problem with driver pay isn`t an EU problem it is a UK problem.
Now the nasty bogie-man EU isn`t there to blame anymore for our Gov failings, maybe we will see what happens over the next few years?
Franglais:
But then, many have been getting regular pay rises for years, so wont be getting big rises because they arent coming from a low level?
But that’s the problem right there that you either cannot see or wilfully ignore! “They have been getting regular pay rises for years”. Maybe German drivers have, British ones certainly haven’t, and why is that? One reason and one reason only; an over abundance of labour in fact. I’m sure that Germany had a proportion of EE drivers, but I’ll wager that as a percentage that number was far less than the percentage of EE drivers working for British outfits.
Why do you think that pre Brexit a higher percentage of EE drivers headed for Britain rather than Germany which is only a short commute home on a weekend? While we’re talking about EU drivers receiving wage increases have you asked any Spanish drivers how they are spending their massive rises? That’s assuming that you can actually find a Spaniard driving a Spanish motor that is after their industry was decimated by the influx.
bigstraight6:
[
Indeed, and the fact that we haven’t gone to hell in a handcart .
■■■■ me, it’s pretty bad as it is, how much worse do you want it to be before you say we have gone to hell.
the maoster:
I remember mortgage and interest rates in the 90’s of around 14%, :
That was for a matter of a month/months
Looks like a matter of months between 1980 and 1990 to me. I’m glad you’re not processing my time sheets.
the maoster:
But that’s the problem right there that you either cannot see or wilfully ignore! “They have been getting regular pay rises for years”. Maybe German drivers have, British ones certainly haven’t, and why is that?
Back at ya!
Germans and others have been getting rises…they are also in the EU…therefore how come so many blame the EU?
So, there must be something else involved mustn`t there?
You mentioned Spain? Read on…
marketbusinessnews.com/financia … apitalism/
"The Financial Times Lexicon says the following about Anglo-Saxon capitalism:
“The “Anglo-Saxon” variant of capitalism is thought to be characterized, at the level of states, by lower taxes, looser regulation, a weaker social-safety net and greater ease for firms to hire and fire employees – and to take each other over.”
“At the level of individual firms and businesses, Anglo-Saxon capitalism is said to emphasize the interests of shareholders, rather than other stakeholders such as employees. Its critics say that it emphasizes short-term profits at the expense of long-term planning.”
In fact, there are several countries with Anglo-Saxon capitalist systems that are not native-English speaking nations. For example, in Spain, Greece, and some newer European Union members, Anglo-Saxon capitalism dominates."
Sound familiar?
The market decides/Supply demand/Lower taxes to attract investors/…
and
And now we are free of the shackles of the EU our banks will be free …to de-regulate even more so enabling… more trouble later on.
Economists also refer to the German and Nordic Models as the Continental Economic Model or European Model.
The Nordic countries? In the EU or (Norway) EEA. But money isn`t everything.
Check this…(I know you love my links)…
dmerharyana.org/world-happiness-index/
post brexit, More than a million foreign nationals were offered visas to live in the UK last year to March, Home Office figures show.
dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … -year.html
I’m extremely competitive by nature and therefore see second place as merely the first loser, so I do therefore understand your angst.
Franglais:
the maoster:
But that’s the problem right there that you either cannot see or wilfully ignore! “They have been getting regular pay rises for years”. Maybe German drivers have, British ones certainly haven’t, and why is that?
Back at ya!
Germans and others have been getting rises…they are also in the EU…therefore how come so many blame the EU?
So, there must be something else involved mustn`t there?
You mentioned Spain? Read on…
marketbusinessnews.com/financia … apitalism/
"The Financial Times Lexicon says the following about Anglo-Saxon capitalism:
“The “Anglo-Saxon” variant of capitalism is thought to be characterized, at the level of states, by lower taxes, looser regulation, a weaker social-safety net and greater ease for firms to hire and fire employees – and to take each other over.”
“At the level of individual firms and businesses, Anglo-Saxon capitalism is said to emphasize the interests of shareholders, rather than other stakeholders such as employees. Its critics say that it emphasizes short-term profits at the expense of long-term planning.”
In fact, there are several countries with Anglo-Saxon capitalist systems that are not native-English speaking nations. For example, in Spain, Greece, and some newer European Union members, Anglo-Saxon capitalism dominates."
Sound familiar?
The market decides/Supply demand/Lower taxes to attract investors/…
and
And now we are free of the shackles of the EU our banks will be free …to de-regulate even more so enabling… more trouble later on.
Economists also refer to the German and Nordic Models as the Continental Economic Model or European Model.
The Nordic countries? In the EU or (Norway) EEA. But money isn`t everything.
Check this…(I know you love my links)…
dmerharyana.org/world-happiness-index/
Yes, here’s the problem. You constantly quote reports and statistics to show how beneficial eu membership has been while we constantly quote first-hand real-life experiences to show how it hasn’t.
I do not believe for a New York second that you are or have ever been employed as an HGV driver. You wouldn’t come out with this guff if you are or ever were.
Allow me to confirm then Harry that Mr.Franglais does drive a truck.
Although he is disabled.
He has very short arms with very deep pockets.
Harry Monk:
Yes, here’s the problem. You constantly quote reports and statistics to show how beneficial eu membership has been while we constantly quote first-hand real-life experiences to show how it hasn’t.
Every single time I came off a boat, swopped trailers, crossed a border, dropped or collected without doing T-2s was a positive EU bonus for me, my boss, and our clients. Just a CMR and off you go! Thousands of every day advantages.
Since Brexit I have had a few odd loads where the docs were wrong resulting in days lost.
Since Brexit our company has been shipping out empty lots of the time.
The small multi drop work we were doing has dried up. I have seen the change with my own eyes. The stats and news stories of hundreds of small companies are all there, but I repeat I have noticed this. If youre sitting on an industial estate at Rugby maybe *you* havent.
The collections we do have changed too. Because it takes as much documentation to do a 1kg box as it does 26t of pallets, the multi aspect has shrunk considerably. I have seen this myself. You don`t have to take my word, the stats prove it. And it is every householder in the UK who is paying for this extra red tape.
Get yourself down to the Old ■■■■ section and look at Buzzer`s pictures of his new lorries: there they are, parked-up doing customs! Back to the good old days?
“Matt loaded in Italy this morning early waiting for customs, what a load of rollock’s we got rid of all that crap paperwork in the 90’s, Buzzer”
“clearing customs in Turin this morning, Buzzer”
“Bet any Euro drivers coming in to Britain never get check anyway, we dont even make them do customs yet because apparently we are not ready for that Buzzer”
“Andrew doing the customs bit, no holiday in Italy, Buzzer”
“Gazzer in the subbies motor doing holiday relief clearing customs this morning in France, Buzzer”
Harry Monk:
I do not believe for a New York second that you are or have ever been employed as an HGV driver. You wouldn’t come out with this guff if you are or ever were.
Mr Money has said I am a driver (he is given to exaggeration, I do aim trucks though) so, unless your think were both liars in some conspiracy? I am one, but I am keen to know why you believed I wasnt?
the maoster:
I’m extremely competitive by nature and therefore see second place as merely the first loser, so I do therefore understand your angst.
Here is a link for you then: Pyrrhus of Epirus.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory
But lets stick to the issue: you are in no way refuting my point that what you blame the EU for in the UK, is not a problem in some other EU countries.
So, what you complain of cannot be caused by the EU, can it?
So, leaving the EU will not cure that problem, will it?