Franglais:
discoman:
Franglais:
I didnt see the bits Mazzer had embedded in my post straightaway. NHS access for ex-pats, from NHS site: [nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/health ... 20register](https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/healthcare-abroad/moving-abroad/planning-your-healthcare/#:~:text=If%20you're%20moving%20abroad,removed%20from%20the%20NHS%20register). "If you're moving abroad on a permanent basis, you'll no longer automatically be entitled to medical treatment under normal NHS rules." So, those who leave the UK at 25 etc dont retain rights.
If someone is cheating the system by claiming kids are resident when they aren`t then they are cheats.
I have never said I am in favour of free for all migration. I do say many of the arguments you use are over simplified.
Let’s, give a couple of facts to rebuff the drivel you speak of Australia, the immigration system is based on points, and yes, one person, example a hairdresser, can do an application get A TRN, and put her or his spouse on the application as well as children under 18 at time of said application…if successful, for a 175 what we were on ( or whatever it is now)… then you are vetted medical and given a perm resident visa… checkable of VEVO … upon arrival, you go to the local Medicare office, and get a Medicare card and all get public health system from day 1 here in Australia … with out paying 1 cent tax towards it … persons are not entitled to unemployment payments for 2 years unless under special circumstances … as soon as the CaNUK is in place then brits seems likely to be coming over visa free to live and work here … as per Federal ministers want… oh, if you come for a holiday, all you need to do is show a UK passport and you get free treatment in public hospitals … fact, my mate hurt his leg on my motorcycle and was treated free, and got a temp Medicare card for remained of his holiday … there are also other perks etc …
If you want to accuse me of talking drivel, fine. “Carry On…”
But at least try to get the subject matter correct. No mention of Australia in the quoted post, nor anywhere else recently.
Ed The stuff in red in Mazzer`s reply to me talking about Aus was him, not me. Check the original post if you like.
fact are, people do have 5 or 6 children and enrol kids into school … and yes, people do come here and have a child, on the public health system for free. Australia is very similar to the UK with the health system back home in the UK, I still pay NI stamp even though I no longer live perm in the UK , so If I wish to come back and use the system I will.
Some info on the proposed, delayed, border checks :
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57133682
Still no building work yet apparently?
And on the same topic, Frost says 5 days ago that what is already there is unsustainable.
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern- … 075664.amp
.
So the “oven ready” plan is only half rolled out, but is unsustainable already.
.
Of course some rags are already blaming the EU, because…
A) They want us to keep our promises?
.
B) They gave us a bad deal?
.
C) We always blame the EU for everything?
.
Any other options?
Franglais:
Some info on the proposed, delayed, border checks :
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57133682
Still no building work yet apparently?
And on the same topic, Frost says 5 days ago that what is already there is unsustainable.
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern- … 075664.amp
.
So the “oven ready” plan is only half rolled out, but is unsustainable already.
.
Of course some rags are already blaming the EU, because…
A) They want us to keep our promises?
.
B) They gave us a bad deal?
.
C) We always blame the EU for everything?
.
Any other options?
The UK left the EU, personally I would of voted remain , however, the UK voted out so it’s to be accepted, why can’t you. A serious question.
Democratic votes are only Democratic for the winners, in this instance they the
Leavers are wrong etc … it’s rather silly … and why quote a biased remain BBC? Independence is key to debate not biased. If your based in the uk it has to be accepted as it’s not going to change and unhealthy to worry about it.
discoman:
Franglais:
Some info on the proposed, delayed, border checks :
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57133682
Still no building work yet apparently?
And on the same topic, Frost says 5 days ago that what is already there is unsustainable.
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern- … 075664.amp
.
So the “oven ready” plan is only half rolled out, but is unsustainable already.
.
Of course some rags are already blaming the EU, because…
A) They want us to keep our promises?
.
B) They gave us a bad deal?
.
C) We always blame the EU for everything?
.
Any other options?
The UK left the EU, personally I would of voted remain , however, the UK voted out so it’s to be accepted, why can’t you. A serious question.
Democratic votes are only Democratic for the winners, in this instance they the
Leavers are wrong etc … it’s rather silly … and why quote a biased remain BBC? Independence is key to debate not biased. If your based in the uk it has to be accepted as it’s not going to change and unhealthy to worry about it.
What?
We voted out yes.
Should that be an end to all discussion?
.
Since Johnsonn is in power after a vote should all discussion from Labour, LibDem, Green, and UKIP end?
.
If the process of Brexit is not fulfilling the promises should we all bury our head in the sand and ignore what is happening?
.
Free speech is NOT a one off event that happens just once in four years.
Democracy is a process.
Those who want to curtail speech they find somehow “inconvenient” are not helping anyone nor their own point of view.
Having to examine the choices we have already made is sometimes awkward, but that is how we learn and move forward.
I’ll happily discuss Brexit here, although I know many don’t agree with me. Nodding and agreeing with those who have the exact same point of view is a crazy way to carry on. Plenty of echo chambers on the internet where agreement leads to more and more extreme points of view, in Brexit and other fields too.
If you don’t like an argument try to destroy it with evidence and logic. Shouting “shut up” doesn’t work.
.
Franglais:
What?
We voted out yes.
Should that be an end to all discussion?
.
Since Johnsonn is in power after a vote should all discussion from Labour, LibDem, Green, and UKIP end?
.
If the process of Brexit is not fulfilling the promises should we all bury our head in the sand and ignore what is happening?
.
Free speech is NOT a one off event that happens just once in four years.
Democracy is a process.
Those who want to curtail speech they find somehow “inconvenient” are not helping anyone nor their own point of view.
Having to examine the choices we have already made is sometimes awkward, but that is how we learn and move forward.
I’ll happily discuss Brexit here, although I know many don’t agree with me. Nodding and agreeing with those who have the exact same point of view is a crazy way to carry on. Plenty of echo chambers on the internet where agreement leads to more and more extreme points of view, in Brexit and other fields too.
If you don’t like an argument try to destroy it with evidence and logic. Shouting “shut up” doesn’t work.
.
Could I ask you one very simple question? So simple that it only requires a “yes” or “no” answer?
Are you an HGV/ LGV driver?
Franglais:
discoman:
Franglais:
Some info on the proposed, delayed, border checks :
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57133682
Still no building work yet apparently?
And on the same topic, Frost says 5 days ago that what is already there is unsustainable.
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern- … 075664.amp
.
So the “oven ready” plan is only half rolled out, but is unsustainable already.
.
Of course some rags are already blaming the EU, because…
A) They want us to keep our promises?
.
B) They gave us a bad deal?
.
C) We always blame the EU for everything?
.
Any other options?
The UK left the EU, personally I would of voted remain , however, the UK voted out so it’s to be accepted, why can’t you. A serious question.
Democratic votes are only Democratic for the winners, in this instance they the
Leavers are wrong etc … it’s rather silly … and why quote a biased remain BBC? Independence is key to debate not biased. If your based in the uk it has to be accepted as it’s not going to change and unhealthy to worry about it.
What?
We voted out yes.
Should that be an end to all discussion?
.
Since Johnsonn is in power after a vote should all discussion from Labour, LibDem, Green, and UKIP end?
.
If the process of Brexit is not fulfilling the promises should we all bury our head in the sand and ignore what is happening?
.
Free speech is NOT a one off event that happens just once in four years.
Democracy is a process.
Those who want to curtail speech they find somehow “inconvenient” are not helping anyone nor their own point of view.
Having to examine the choices we have already made is sometimes awkward, but that is how we learn and move forward.
I’ll happily discuss Brexit here, although I know many don’t agree with me. Nodding and agreeing with those who have the exact same point of view is a crazy way to carry on. Plenty of echo chambers on the internet where agreement leads to more and more extreme points of view, in Brexit and other fields too.
If you don’t like an argument try to destroy it with evidence and logic. Shouting “shut up” doesn’t work.
.
Nope, you have it so wrong, do I agree with the vote? No, do I accept it yes, you can’t compare the government to brexit, the uk voted to leave the European Union , the UK government will always debate. However, they won’t have the EU interests overshadowing them … on a day to day basis, leaving the EU won’t have much effect, unless you wish to work or live or even study on the continent… looking at it unbiased, it seems all the project fear was a false dawn. The UK showed balls to do what they did.
I am going to benefit from a FTA here in Australia so with the homeland… so win win for me.
Harry Monk:
Franglais:
What?
We voted out yes.
Should that be an end to all discussion?
.
Since Johnsonn is in power after a vote should all discussion from Labour, LibDem, Green, and UKIP end?
.
If the process of Brexit is not fulfilling the promises should we all bury our head in the sand and ignore what is happening?
.
Free speech is NOT a one off event that happens just once in four years.
Democracy is a process.
Those who want to curtail speech they find somehow “inconvenient” are not helping anyone nor their own point of view.
Having to examine the choices we have already made is sometimes awkward, but that is how we learn and move forward.
I’ll happily discuss Brexit here, although I know many don’t agree with me. Nodding and agreeing with those who have the exact same point of view is a crazy way to carry on. Plenty of echo chambers on the internet where agreement leads to more and more extreme points of view, in Brexit and other fields too.
If you don’t like an argument try to destroy it with evidence and logic. Shouting “shut up” doesn’t work.
.
Could I ask you one very simple question? So simple that it only requires a “yes” or “no” answer?
Are you an HGV/ LGV driver?
Yes.
.
Full time, about retirement age, working for a UK company, mostly euro work as written in my profile.
.
Ed,1
Bring the www I could be lying, I could be Mrs Spica’s Dr, an Ethiopian, Jewish Gynacologist* but yes, I’m a driver.
Ed,2
discoman:
Franglais:
discoman:
Franglais:
Some info on the proposed, delayed, border checks :
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57133682
Still no building work yet apparently?
And on the same topic, Frost says 5 days ago that what is already there is unsustainable.
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern- … 075664.amp
.
So the “oven ready” plan is only half rolled out, but is unsustainable already.
.
Of course some rags are already blaming the EU, because…
A) They want us to keep our promises?
.
B) They gave us a bad deal?
.
C) We always blame the EU for everything?
.
Any other options?
The UK left the EU, personally I would of voted remain , however, the UK voted out so it’s to be accepted, why can’t you. A serious question.
Democratic votes are only Democratic for the winners, in this instance they the
Leavers are wrong etc … it’s rather silly … and why quote a biased remain BBC? Independence is key to debate not biased. If your based in the uk it has to be accepted as it’s not going to change and unhealthy to worry about it.
What?
We voted out yes.
Should that be an end to all discussion?
.
Since Johnsonn is in power after a vote should all discussion from Labour, LibDem, Green, and UKIP end?
.
If the process of Brexit is not fulfilling the promises should we all bury our head in the sand and ignore what is happening?
.
Free speech is NOT a one off event that happens just once in four years.
Democracy is a process.
Those who want to curtail speech they find somehow “inconvenient” are not helping anyone nor their own point of view.
Having to examine the choices we have already made is sometimes awkward, but that is how we learn and move forward.
I’ll happily discuss Brexit here, although I know many don’t agree with me. Nodding and agreeing with those who have the exact same point of view is a crazy way to carry on. Plenty of echo chambers on the internet where agreement leads to more and more extreme points of view, in Brexit and other fields too.
If you don’t like an argument try to destroy it with evidence and logic. Shouting “shut up” doesn’t work.
.
Nope, you have it so wrong, do I agree with the vote? No, do I accept it yes, you can’t compare the government to brexit, the uk voted to leave the European Union , the UK government will always debate. However, they won’t have the EU interests overshadowing them … on a day to day basis, leaving the EU won’t have much effect, unless you wish to work or live or even study on the continent… looking at it unbiased, it seems all the project fear was a false dawn. The UK showed balls to do what they did.
I am going to benefit from a FTA here in Australia so with the homeland… so win win for me.
The trade deal Aus/UK still hasn’t been signed yet has it?
That both Govs are saying how great it is, is hardly a shock, they won’t be saying how bad they are at their jobs nor how they are desperate for a deal.
No deal ever agreed by anyone has been called by the signatories anything but a success. Those observing may say otherwise.
.
Did you read the links I posted? The Brexit deal as signed still has NOT been implemented. Further effects will come.
.
I haven’t got time to expand on that now.
Ed
dfat.gov.au/trade/agreement … ons/aukfta
Franglais:
Full time, about retirement age, working for a UK company, mostly euro work as written in my profile.
.
Ed,1
Bring the www I could be lying, I could be Mrs Spica’s Dr, an Ethiopian, Jewish Gynacologist* but yes, I’m a driver.
And have you noticed the decline in British firms doing Euro work, and the general wage stagnation in the transport industry over the last, say, 15 years and if you have what would you ascribe this to?
Because “turkey voting for Christmas” is the phrase that comes to mind here.
Harry Monk:
Franglais:
Full time, about retirement age, working for a UK company, mostly euro work as written in my profile.
.
Ed,1
Bring the www I could be lying, I could be Mrs Spica’s Dr, an Ethiopian, Jewish Gynacologist* but yes, I’m a driver.
And have you noticed the decline in British firms doing Euro work, and the general wage stagnation in the transport industry over the last, say, 15 years and if you have what would you ascribe this to?
Because “turkey voting for Christmas” is the phrase that comes to mind here.
A general stagnation for us following the Great Recession?
And election of Govs repeatedly following the economics of austerity?
Yes. I have noticed that.
I have also noticed the decline in cross channel trade since the Brexit vote. And am afraid that is going to be an increasing problem.
“Turkeys Christmas”? Voting to increase obstacles for transport is not going to make things better.
There is an interesting article from the FT, only few hours old, which discusses prospects of UK - Australia free trade deal.
If you click on the link once, you are going to be able to read it, if you close it and click the second time , you won’t, so I would advicse to click on it, and do not close it, keep it open for when you have enough time to read it.
UK government split over Australia trade deal
The British government is locked in a “ferocious” internal battle over whether to sign off a trade deal with Australia after a split between the department of agriculture and the department of international trade over the terms of the agreement.
ft.com/content/8c5f7a0c-6be … 721dc08701
A general stagnation for us following the Great Recession?
And election of Govs repeatedly following the economics of austerity?
I noticed the decline of brits on the ferries from the late 90s to mid 2000s…I don’t recall any austerity in those days. And what is this great recession? the late 80’s to early 90s one, if so then we’re always going to be in a post recession era.
anon84679660:
There is an interesting article from the FT, only few hours old, which discusses prospects of UK - Australia free trade deal.
If you click on the link once, you are going to be able to read it, if you close it and click the second time , you won’t, so I would advicse to click on it, and do not close it, keep it open for when you have enough time to read it.
UK government split over Australia trade deal
The British government is locked in a “ferocious” internal battle over whether to sign off a trade deal with Australia after a split between the department of agriculture and the department of international trade over the terms of the agreement.
ft.com/content/8c5f7a0c-6be … 721dc08701
I will believe our minister for trade here in Canberra, they want a FTA…
But we’re concerned over free movement of the brits… they didn’t want riff raft coming here… currently, there is a no deal, as prior to brexit, we have a basic no deal with the EU … the FTA will come in time as well as the CANUK, it’s away for the UK to get into the TPP by getting an invite… personally, I don’t want I skilled brits coming to Australia
There is plenty of encouragement for anti Brexit folk to believe that the country will return to the EU fold in a relatively short period and marginalise the working class voters who chose Brexit.Blair ,for one,hasn’t stopped agitating.During my time spent reading all sorts of stuff I came across an organisation called “Common Purpose” which is classed as a UK based charity with the aim of creating future leaders of society and which is elitist and pro EU.Obviously promoted by very influential people.
Franglais:
Recession?
And election of Govs repeatedly following the economics of austerity?
Yes. I have noticed that.
I have also noticed the decline in cross channel trade since the Brexit vote. And am afraid that is going to be an increasing problem.
“Turkeys Christmas”? Voting to increase obstacles for transport is not going to make things better.
Nothing to do with social dumping then?
Harry Monk:
Franglais:
Recession?
And election of Govs repeatedly following the economics of austerity?
Yes. I have noticed that.
I have also noticed the decline in cross channel trade since the Brexit vote. And am afraid that is going to be an increasing problem.
“Turkeys Christmas”? Voting to increase obstacles for transport is not going to make things better.
Nothing to do with social dumping then?
The Social Dumping that got a Begian company a half million fine and it’s owner a suspended prison sentence?
.
Does ■■■■ happen, yes it does.
Does it take a long time to sort it out? Yes.
Will Brexit mean the end of crappy stuff happening? I very much doubt it.
.
Lots of factors affect employment conditions and wages. Different industries suffer at different times, and we in transport may have not done too well recently.
But blaming the EU for all our woes, and expecting Brexit to cure them is not very likely.
.
Those in the Leave Campaign who said
Brexit is all good with no down sides have the spiel of confidence hucksters. They tell you want you to hear and you believe it. Well, we will soon see.
.
Franglais:
Harry Monk:
Franglais:
Recession?
And election of Govs repeatedly following the economics of austerity?
Yes. I have noticed that.
I have also noticed the decline in cross channel trade since the Brexit vote. And am afraid that is going to be an increasing problem.
“Turkeys Christmas”? Voting to increase obstacles for transport is not going to make things better.
Nothing to do with social dumping then?
The Social Dumping that got a Begian company a half million fine and it’s owner a suspended prison sentence?
.
Will Brexit mean the end of crappy stuff happening? I very much doubt it.
.
Lots of factors affect employment conditions and wages. Different industries suffer at different times, and we in transport may have not done too well recently.
But blaming the EU for all our woes, and expecting Brexit to cure them is not very likely.
.
.
Already seeing the the effects of why people voted for Brexit. The influx of cheap unlimited labour has now come to an end and now its a workers market in the job front.
Wages in my area are starting to rise in the scramble to attract talent. Not just in drving, my boy who is a windscreen fitter has been given a 7% wage rise this year and I have just negotiated an above inflation rise.
The glorious Australian trade deal, all Brexiters have been waiting for
Boris Johnson defends Australia trade deal that will allow cheap foreign meat imports saying UK farmers can still ‘make the most’ of post-Brexit freedom amid furious Cabinet row over the impact on British producers
Trade Secretary Liz Truss wants to give Aussies tariff-free access within 10 years
She and supporters argue the move will lower food costs for UK consumers
But she is in a furious stand-off with Environment Secretary George Eustice
He says the move will undercut British farmers who have higher standards
dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … l#comments
Surprisingly Brexiters, in comments section are very unhappy.
Just to quote a few interesting comments getting a lot of green arrows:
“Now we see the the bending over of Johnson, as countries see his desperation to get any deal.”
“Not rubbish, look what Modi got for India - free movement of Indians for a snip”
“Brexit bonanza for Australian farmers - they must be in hysterics at the stupidity of the 52%. Uk farmers deserve no better for trusting the lying cheating PM - as do the fishermen and his ex.”
“There’s no downsides, only considerable upsides to Brexit. For Australian sheep farmers”
“After throwing the fishing industry, the finance industry, JIT manufacturing, and Northern Ireland peace under the Boris Bus for the sake of leaving the EU, I’m sure that farmers can trust the PM not to screw them over in his pursuit of the fabled sunlit uplands.”
Believe it or not, these, above quoted comments, are the some of the most upvoted comments under that article.
anon84679660:
The glorious Australian trade deal, all Brexiters have been waiting for
Boris Johnson defends Australia trade deal that will allow cheap foreign meat imports saying UK farmers can still ‘make the most’ of post-Brexit freedom amid furious Cabinet row over the impact on British producers
Trade Secretary Liz Truss wants to give Aussies tariff-free access within 10 years
She and supporters argue the move will lower food costs for UK consumers
But she is in a furious stand-off with Environment Secretary George Eustice
He says the move will undercut British farmers who have higher standards
dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … l#comments
Surprisingly Brexiters, in comments section are very unhappy.
Just to quote a few interesting comments getting a lot of green arrows:
“Now we see the the bending over of Johnson, as countries see his desperation to get any deal.”
“Not rubbish, look what Modi got for India - free movement of Indians for a snip”
“Brexit bonanza for Australian farmers - they must be in hysterics at the stupidity of the 52%. Uk farmers deserve no better for trusting the lying cheating PM - as do the fishermen and his ex.”
“There’s no downsides, only considerable upsides to Brexit. For Australian sheep farmers”
“After throwing the fishing industry, the finance industry, JIT manufacturing, and Northern Ireland peace under the Boris Bus for the sake of leaving the EU, I’m sure that farmers can trust the PM not to screw them over in his pursuit of the fabled sunlit uplands.”
Believe it or not, these, above quoted comments, are the some of the most upvoted comments under that article.
Aussie beef if not cheap, it’s 12$ a kg, and taste good, just like the wines over here… so, your saying I shouldn’t go to Costco here, and by cheese made in the uk??? Grow up, NZ lamb was always on the tables in the uk before… British farmers pleas plead poverty but always have a Range Rover and top spec gear … most farms are owned by big organisations… move with the times… time the uk farmers were to work land rather than be funded by the EU to not grow goods.
discoman:
anon84679660:
The glorious Australian trade deal, all Brexiters have been waiting for
Boris Johnson defends Australia trade deal that will allow cheap foreign meat imports saying UK farmers can still ‘make the most’ of post-Brexit freedom amid furious Cabinet row over the impact on British producers
Trade Secretary Liz Truss wants to give Aussies tariff-free access within 10 years
She and supporters argue the move will lower food costs for UK consumers
But she is in a furious stand-off with Environment Secretary George Eustice
He says the move will undercut British farmers who have higher standards
dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … l#comments
Surprisingly Brexiters, in comments section are very unhappy.
Just to quote a few interesting comments getting a lot of green arrows:
“Now we see the the bending over of Johnson, as countries see his desperation to get any deal.”
“Not rubbish, look what Modi got for India - free movement of Indians for a snip”
“Brexit bonanza for Australian farmers - they must be in hysterics at the stupidity of the 52%. Uk farmers deserve no better for trusting the lying cheating PM - as do the fishermen and his ex.”
“There’s no downsides, only considerable upsides to Brexit. For Australian sheep farmers”
“After throwing the fishing industry, the finance industry, JIT manufacturing, and Northern Ireland peace under the Boris Bus for the sake of leaving the EU, I’m sure that farmers can trust the PM not to screw them over in his pursuit of the fabled sunlit uplands.”
Believe it or not, these, above quoted comments, are the some of the most upvoted comments under that article.
Aussie beef if not cheap, it’s 12$ a kg, and taste good, just like the wines over here… so, your saying I shouldn’t go to Costco here, and by cheese made in the uk??? Grow up, NZ lamb was always on the tables in the uk before… British farmers pleas plead poverty but always have a Range Rover and top spec gear … most farms are owned by big organisations… move with the times… time the uk farmers were to work land rather than be funded by the EU to not grow goods.
Beef at 12$Aus per kilo is about £7.
Tesco from £13 kilo to £25kilo for a steak.
So Aus beef costs about half or less than UK prices.
.
New Zealand lamb is available in the UK and has been throughout our time in the EU.
Trade deals don’t stop the import and export of goods, they do set quotas, agree standards, and set tariffs.
.
Here’s a 2018 article.
sustainweb.org/news/apr18_t … mone_beef/
Australia uses growth hormones currently banned in the UK.
To remain competitive with unrestricted beef imports should our farmers use these? Should we rip out hedges to cut costs and increase productive acreage?
Should we change our farming practises?
And should we change our farming of poultry if we trade with the USA? They too have different rules than us on chicken meat.
Different rules on hygiene in slaughter houses, hormones, genetically modified feed, feeding of antibiotics to animals.
.
In trade deals countries want unfettered access to our food markets without changing their production rules.
.
I’m not saying all other countries have unsafe foods. . I do say we have different rules on production. Our rules suit us.
To stay competitive our farmers would need to change the way they work. We would need to adopt our rules to foreign standards. Standards we have no say and no vote on.
Of course we could simply keep our rules, import cheap meat from animals possibly raised to lower standards than we think is correct, and let our farmers go hang.
Bad for animals as a whole, bad for balance of payments, bad for food standards.
.
There is a place for trade agreememts between us and Aus, US, etc, but totally free trade isn’t so easy.