whisperingsmith:
> GORDON 50:
> OK, slight exaggeration there. But the way some people go it’s as if we can’t function as a country outside of the EU.WE don’t seem to have functioned very well as a country for the last 12 years, in or out of the EU
We were functioning fine up to 1972 including having to pay for a war that Germany started. As opposed to 1975 to date including having to take on an IMF bailout to meet our EU contributions.
GORDON 50:
whisperingsmith:
> GORDON 50:
> OK, slight exaggeration there. But the way some people go it’s as if we can’t function as a country outside of the EU.WE don’t seem to have functioned very well as a country for the last 12 years, in or out of the EU
Compared to who?
Compared with ourselves.
macrotrends.net/countries/G … rom%202017.
Franglais:
GORDON 50:
whisperingsmith:
> GORDON 50:
> OK, slight exaggeration there. But the way some people go it’s as if we can’t function as a country outside of the EU.WE don’t seem to have functioned very well as a country for the last 12 years, in or out of the EU
Compared to who?
Compared with ourselves.
macrotrends.net/countries/G … rom%202017.
Mmmmm, can’t see what you’re trying to say with that link. Looks like good and bad to me, just like the rest of the world.
GORDON 50:
Mmmmm, can’t see what you’re trying to say with that link. Looks like good and bad to me, just like the rest of the world.
You mean like the worldwide high inflation figures in countries across every continent, yet Franglais tried to pin ours on Brexit in boringly predicable fashion.
GORDON 50:
Mmmmm, can’t see what you’re trying to say with that link. Looks like good and bad to me, just like the rest of the world.
Try this graph then showing productivity.
tradingeconomics.com/united-kin … 0of%201971.
There is a fairly steady growth up to the 2008 Global crash.
A dip then the start of resumption of the same rate of growth.
But about 2011/2012 the angle is noticeably flatter. Growth has slowed, and stays slow.
Slow growth 2012 to 2019. The regime of austerity has been a failure for the UK.
Post C19, post Brexit, flat-lined.
Pre 2008 we were in the EU with decent growth.
Post 2008 we were doing worse. Other countries in the EU, nit following the austerity plans of the UK have done better than us.
The EU has been the scapegoat for bad fiscal management by the Governments since 2010.
See what happens now.
Franglais:
GORDON 50:
Mmmmm, can’t see what you’re trying to say with that link. Looks like good and bad to me, just like the rest of the world.Try this graph then showing productivity.
tradingeconomics.com/united-kin … 0of%201971.There is a fairly steady growth up to the 2008 Global crash.
A dip then the start of resumption of the same rate of growth.
But about 2011/2012 the angle is noticeably flatter. Growth has slowed, and stays slow.
Slow growth 2012 to 2019. The regime of austerity has been a failure for the UK.
Post C19, post Brexit, flat-lined.Pre 2008 we were in the EU with decent growth.
Post 2008 we were doing worse. Other countries in the EU, nit following the austerity plans of the UK have done better than us.
The EU has been the scapegoat for bad fiscal management by the Governments since 2010.
See what happens now.
Remind me what was the economic growth figure for 1972.Value of the pound v Franc, DM, USD, CHF.
Franglais:
GORDON 50:
Mmmmm, can’t see what you’re trying to say with that link. Looks like good and bad to me, just like the rest of the world.Try this graph then showing productivity.
tradingeconomics.com/united-kin … 0of%201971.There is a fairly steady growth up to the 2008 Global crash.
A dip then the start of resumption of the same rate of growth.
But about 2011/2012 the angle is noticeably flatter. Growth has slowed, and stays slow.
Slow growth 2012 to 2019. The regime of austerity has been a failure for the UK.
Post C19, post Brexit, flat-lined.
We’ve also had covid and Ukraine, would be daft to say that they’ve had nothing to do with recent problems. 2011-2012 was pre brexit so not really relevant, ‘2012-2019 regime of austerity’ again not much to do with brexit.
It’s so easy to find bits of data that show we’re not the fastest growing economy 100% of the time, which countries are?Pre 2008 we were in the EU with decent growth.
Post 2008 we were doing worse. Other countries in the EU, nit following the austerity plans of the UK have done better than us.
The EU has been the scapegoat for bad fiscal management by the Governments since 2010.
See what happens now.
God knows what happened to that last post, I must have started typing in the wrong place! Never mind.
GORDON 50:
God knows what happened to that last post, I must have started typing in the wrong place! Never mind.
I think
GORDON 50:
We’ve also had covid and Ukraine, would be daft to say that they’ve had nothing to do with recent problems. 2011-2012 was pre brexit so not really relevant, ‘2012-2019 regime of austerity’ again not much to do with brexit.
It’s so easy to find bits of data that show we’re not the fastest growing economy 100% of the time, which countries are?
Is yours?
2012 to 2019 isn`t Brexit. Agreed.
But that was bad UK growth. That was due to the UK Gov choices.
It wasnt due to UK membership of the EU since other EU countries didnt have the same low growth in the post 2008 crash period.
However, the Leave Campaign was pointing out that the UK economy was doing badly because of EU membership. Clearly nonsense.
The point is
GORDON 50:
whisperingsmith:
> GORDON 50:
> OK, slight exaggeration there. But the way some people go it’s as if we can’t function as a country outside of the EU.WE don’t seem to have functioned very well as a country for the last 12 years, in or out of the EU
Compared to who?
We did badly post 2008 compared both to ourselves previous to 2008, and with other G7 and EU states after 2008.
We`ve had C19 and Ukraine? Yes.
And after a nice blip* post C19 our economy is doing worse than comparable economies, all of which have had C19 and Ukraine issues too.
*We did have a bigger jump than others initially. Mainly because we had a bigger fall than others.
Return to the norm looks better in the short term if one has had a bigger dip.
We can bat to and fro forever on this, every bit of positive news can be turned into a negative on BOTH sides of the argument. As you say, time will tell.
GORDON 50:
We can bat to and fro forever on this, every bit of positive news can be turned into a negative on BOTH sides of the argument. As you say, time will tell.
I will agree that there are positives and negatives to most (if not all) situations.
I won`t agree that every plus has an equal minus.
Look for Brexit pluses for the UK and what do we find?
How many?
Enough that Rees-Mogg talks about vacuum cleaner power!
And he also admits that fully enforcing the agreement he previously lauded would be “an act of self harm” for the UK.
No.
This is not a situation where every bit of positive news can be turned into a negative.
Noisier vacuum cleaners don`t balance billions spent on infrastructure, extra civil servants, admin, delays, lost exports etc etc…
Another benefit is our increased exports in the seafood area.
Because of increasing energy costs, past and continuing years of Brexit problems and uncertainty, we are exporting 900 jobs to Holland.
As said before every problem has a benefit > our loss in another Brexit gain for the Dutch.
whisperingsmith:
I’ve found one benefit of ■■■■■■■■:
0
Nice to see that Nationalisiation of core services is resulting in such high levels of investment innit?
We are truly lucky that the privatisation of Water hasn`t resulted in the destruction of our historic sewers and pipes.
Ripping out Victorian era infrastructure would only have ended up with big concrete pipes and modern sewage plants being built here. And lower profits for share-holders, resulting in fewer inward investors.
We are blessed indeed.
Brexit related?
independent.co.uk/news/uk/p … 47602.html
Rees-Mogg…
So, the story starts like this:
Energy prices rising, so we in the Gov are keen to help all of you consumers. We really are doing all of this to help you. To do this we can drop taxes so that you have more in your own pockets to pay these bills.
It continues:
Of course, there is no magic money tree, so inevitably cuts will have to be made elsewhere.
What is to come next:
But never fear, we can get help with US companies investing their capital in our failing (because we have underfunded it for years…R-M won`t say) NHS system.
What could possibly go wrong…
Franglais:
Brexit related?independent.co.uk/news/uk/p … 47602.html
Rees-Mogg…
So, the story starts like this:
Energy prices rising, so we in the Gov are keen to help all of you consumers. We really are doing all of this to help you. To do this we can drop taxes so that you have more in your own pockets to pay these bills.It continues:
Of course, there is no magic money tree, so inevitably cuts will have to be made elsewhere.What is to come next:
But never fear, we can get help with US companies investing their capital in our failing (because we have underfunded it for years…R-M won`t say) NHS system.What could possibly go wrong…
High energy bills because of deliberate punitive pricing based on the climate scam pretext and forcing everyone to go all electric at 50p + per kWh.So that Euroland can take our oil and gas.
A regressive VAT based tax system so the highest income earners can get away with a 40% income tax break.
Couldn’t possibly happen under the EU that the Tories took us into and predictably pretended to take us out of.
Franglais:
whisperingsmith:
I’ve found one benefit of ■■■■■■■■:
0Nice to see that Nationalisiation of core services is resulting in such high levels of investment innit?
We are truly lucky that the privatisation of Water hasn`t resulted in the destruction of our historic sewers and pipes.
Ripping out Victorian era infrastructure would only have ended up with big concrete pipes and modern sewage plants being built here. And lower profits for share-holders, resulting in fewer inward investors.
We are blessed indeed.
You mean German and French private company take over of our utilities as an EU member state.
The EU that the Tories took us into and campaigned for remain in two referenda on membership.
Carryfast:
Franglais:
whisperingsmith:
I’ve found one benefit of ■■■■■■■■:
0Nice to see that Nationalisiation of core services is resulting in such high levels of investment innit?
We are truly lucky that the privatisation of Water hasn`t resulted in the destruction of our historic sewers and pipes.
Ripping out Victorian era infrastructure would only have ended up with big concrete pipes and modern sewage plants being built here. And lower profits for share-holders, resulting in fewer inward investors.
We are blessed indeed.You mean German and French private company take over of our utilities as an EU member state.
The EU that the Tories took us into and campaigned for remain in two referenda on membership.
Oh, and Iberdrolo a Spanish company. If a US or Russian company had been prepared to pay more they would have been in there instead.
The EU didn`t walk in and “take over” our utilities! The UK Gov chose to sell them off. The sell off was nothing at all to do with EU laws.
Dont fret Farages mates in the US are looking at “investing” in the NHS.
We can soon copy their system and strive towards their place leading the developed world in having the most inefficient and most expensive health care.
Franglais:
Carryfast:
Franglais:
whisperingsmith:
I’ve found one benefit of ■■■■■■■■:
0Nice to see that Nationalisiation of core services is resulting in such high levels of investment innit?
We are truly lucky that the privatisation of Water hasn`t resulted in the destruction of our historic sewers and pipes.
Ripping out Victorian era infrastructure would only have ended up with big concrete pipes and modern sewage plants being built here. And lower profits for share-holders, resulting in fewer inward investors.
We are blessed indeed.You mean German and French private company take over of our utilities as an EU member state.
The EU that the Tories took us into and campaigned for remain in two referenda on membership.Oh, and Iberdrolo a Spanish company. If a US or Russian company had been prepared to pay more they would have been in there instead.
The EU didn`t walk in and “take over” our utilities! The UK Gov chose to sell them off. The sell off was nothing at all to do with EU laws.Don
t fret Farages mates in the US are looking at “investing” in the NHS.
We can soon copy their system and strive towards their place leading the developed world in having the most inefficient and most expensive health care.
But your Federal Utopia didn’t stop them.It helped them do it with the same private firms that it has at home.
NHS privatisation just like the German public/private hybrid.
Meanwhile France keeps telling us to go all electric at £1 per kwh under EDF to save the planet.While closing their own dangerous expensive nuke power and instead taking as much of our gas as it can get and flogging it cheaper there than we have to pay for it.
The party that took us into the EU was never going to take us out of it like Shore or Benn would have done Farage is also dodgy in that regard.
That doesn’t make the case for being ruled by Macron.
It makes the case for a proper Labour Party and proper BREXIT.
Carryfast:
But your Federal Utopia didn’t stop them.It helped them do it with the same private firms that it has at home.
NHS privatisation just like the German public/private hybrid.
Meanwhile France keeps telling us to go all electric at £1 per kwh under EDF to save the planet.While closing their own dangerous expensive nuke power and instead taking as much of our gas as it can get and flogging it cheaper there than we have to pay for it.
The party that took us into the EU was never going to take us out of it like Shore or Benn would have done Farage is also dodgy in that regard.
That doesn’t make the case for being ruled by Macron.
It makes the case for a proper Labour Party and proper BREXIT.
I wonder what Mr CF will make of this?
youtube.com/watch?v=NBL6oaDxR1E
Slightly Brexity but with so many issues on show.
The UK infrastructure sold off to foreign investors.
Contradictions between service to citizens and private profit.
Kent having reduced rail services.
The contradictions between public transport support and increased crowding on roads.
