msgyorkie:
Ok. So let’s say we all agree with you and declare Brexit a disaster. How or what do we do going forwards?
Genuine question to hear what you think should be done as it’s very easy to stand on the sidelines and harp on and on and on about how bad it is but we hear nothing of what we should do!
Probably because it’s so obvious, find a way to rejoin. Won’t be happening in our lifetimes tho, most Brits would rather shoot themselves in the face than admit they’re wrong.
switchlogic:
msgyorkie:
Ok. So let’s say we all agree with you and declare Brexit a disaster. How or what do we do going forwards?
Genuine question to hear what you think should be done as it’s very easy to stand on the sidelines and harp on and on and on about how bad it is but we hear nothing of what we should do!Probably because it’s so obvious, find a way to rejoin. Won’t be happening in our lifetimes tho, most Brits would rather shoot themselves in the face than admit they’re wrong.
The only disaster was in trusting the Europhile quisling Tory rabble that took us in to take us out.The predictable result being fake BREXIT.So business as usual more of our cash, fish, oil and gas in exchange for what other than being ruled by Germany and France for Germany and France.
BREXIT ‘should be’ all about turning the clock back to 1972 not more of what we’ve had since 1973 to date dressed up as so called BREXIT.
msgyorkie:
Ok. So let’s say we all agree with you and declare Brexit a disaster. How or what do we do going forwards?
Genuine question to hear what you think should be done as it’s very easy to stand on the sidelines and harp on and on and on about how bad it is but we hear nothing of what we should do!
We cant turn the clock back, and not leave. That has happened. And the EU arent going to say, “Yeah, these things happen, come on back on the same conditions you left.”
It is better for us, I am convinced, inside of the EU, helping make EU rules, not just taking them.
The EU is our nearest and biggest trading partner.
Pretending we are part of a Pacific trading group or whatever is fantasy. That is relevant as much as thinking we can subdue a few newly found countries and build another empire.
Unless we have a political consensus that we are, and will remain for a significant time, part of the EU, they won`t want to let us in, just for us to leave again. Sure, there will be room for discussion, but Brexit has been damaging for them as well as us.
The kidding ourselves that we are, indeed that any country, is truly independent, needs to stop.
Was it Maxwell who said that telling lies was easy if “you tell them what they want to hear” ?
Saying we are the exception, we are stronger, we can go it alone, is part of our national story, but it isn`t a realistic assessment of who we are today, nor where we are going.
Empire is gone, and isnt coming back. And the Empire wasnt built on lies, false hopes, and “positive thinking” of charlatan politicos.
Those who built the Empire invested, not in hedge-funds and international money schemes like Somerset Finance, but in real factories, and real work. The “investment” the current regime seeks isnt share holders building factories and training people for the future, its short term investment that will fly out as soon as someone else overtakes us in the “low tax” race to the bottom.
If, and when, we get a good dose of realism again? Then more practically:
The first thing would be to get rid of the burden of extra documentation that importers, exporters, and transporters have.
Get ourselves nearer the Swiss or Norwegian type of relationship with the EU.
We need to realise that since our market is with the EU, then we must produce goods to their standards. What is the point is divergence of standards if we cant sell our goods abroad? What point is there for two different sets of rules for UK and EU goods in the same factory? Madness. As part of the EU we had a good say in those standards, now we dont.
But no realism, nor any movement will be possible, while false dreams are still being peddled and believed, by mainstream politicos, supported by newsrags, and those foreign interests who fund our parties and their members.
switchlogic:
Probably because it’s so obvious, find a way to rejoin. Won’t be happening in our lifetimes tho, most Brits would rather shoot themselves in the face than admit they’re wrong.
That’s working on the assumption that we all think it was a mistake leaving - we don’t, unless you want to believe the narrative fed by sections of the remoaning media that we do and all think leaving was now a mistake! 
Franglais:
We cant turn the clock back, and not leave. That has happened. And the EU arent going to say, “Yeah, these things happen, come on back on the same conditions you left.”It is better for us, I am convinced, inside of the EU, helping make EU rules, not just taking them.
The EU is our nearest and biggest trading partner.
Pretending we are part of a Pacific trading group or whatever is fantasy. That is relevant as much as thinking we can subdue a few newly found countries and build another empire.
Unless we have a political consensus that we are, and will remain for a significant time, part of the EU, they won`t want to let us in, just for us to leave again. Sure, there will be room for discussion, but Brexit has been damaging for them as well as us.The kidding ourselves that we are, indeed that any country, is truly independent, needs to stop.
Was it Maxwell who said that telling lies was easy if “you tell them what they want to hear” ?
Saying we are the exception, we are stronger, we can go it alone, is part of our national story, but it isn`t a realistic assessment of who we are today, nor where we are going.Empire is gone, and isn
t coming back. And the Empire wasnt built on lies, false hopes, and “positive thinking” of charlatan politicos.
Those who built the Empire invested, not in hedge-funds and international money schemes like Somerset Finance, but in real factories, and real work. The “investment” the current regime seeks isnt share holders building factories and training people for the future, its short term investment that will fly out as soon as someone else overtakes us in the “low tax” race to the bottom.If, and when, we get a good dose of realism again? Then more practically:
The first thing would be to get rid of the burden of extra documentation that importers, exporters, and transporters have.
Get ourselves nearer the Swiss or Norwegian type of relationship with the EU.
We need to realise that since our market is with the EU, then we must produce goods to their standards. What is the point is divergence of standards if we cant sell our goods abroad? What point is there for two different sets of rules for UK and EU goods in the same factory? Madness. As part of the EU we had a good say in those standards, now we dont.But no realism, nor any movement will be possible, while false dreams are still being peddled and believed, by mainstream politicos, supported by newsrags, and those foreign interests who fund our parties and their members.
You got a link to any of that waffle?
tmcassett:
switchlogic:
Probably because it’s so obvious, find a way to rejoin. Won’t be happening in our lifetimes tho, most Brits would rather shoot themselves in the face than admit they’re wrong.That’s working on the assumption that we all think it was a mistake leaving - we don’t, unless you want to believe the narrative fed by sections of the remoaning media that we do and all think leaving was now a mistake!
Do you ever read the previous posts?
msgyorkie:
Ok. So let’s say we all agree with you and declare Brexit a disaster. How or what do we do going forwards?
Franglais:
Do you ever read the previous posts?
I did indeed! 
tmcassett:
You got a link to any of that waffle?
Masterly.
You have clearly taken a great deal of trouble in giving all of your intellectual powers to produce such a post.
Here is a link, since you ask for one
sainsburys.co.uk/webapp/wcs … %2Fwaffles
Franglais:
tmcassett:
You got a link to any of that waffle?Masterly.
You have clearly taken a great deal of trouble in giving all of your intellectual powers to produce such a post.Here is a link, since you ask for one
sainsburys.co.uk/webapp/wcs … %2Fwaffles
No I was just worried about you that’s all - I sensed something wasn’t right for you to write all that and not attach some sort of link. Glad normal service has been resumed though and that you are clearly okay now.
tmcassett:
switchlogic:
Probably because it’s so obvious, find a way to rejoin. Won’t be happening in our lifetimes tho, most Brits would rather shoot themselves in the face than admit they’re wrong.That’s working on the assumption that we all think it was a mistake leaving - we don’t, unless you want to believe the narrative fed by sections of the remoaning media that we do and all think leaving was now a mistake!
Yes, because it’s an answer to the question posed.
msgyorkie:
So let’s say we all agree with you and declare Brexit a disaster.
switchlogic:
msgyorkie:
Ok. So let’s say we all agree with you and declare Brexit a disaster. How or what do we do going forwards?
Genuine question to hear what you think should be done as it’s very easy to stand on the sidelines and harp on and on and on about how bad it is but we hear nothing of what we should do!Probably because it’s so obvious, find a way to rejoin. Won’t be happening in our lifetimes tho, most Brits would rather shoot themselves in the face than admit they’re wrong.
But would the EU want us back?
And if they did would the EU “punish” the UK with finances?
msgyorkie:
But would the EU want us back?
And if they did would the EU “punish” the UK with finances?
Nice to see that “punishment” is in inverted commas.
The rags normally using such terms too often expect them to be taken seriously.
Paying membership fees to a club, or paying dues to a contract one has voluntarily signed up to is no “punishment”, although certain, poor, hard-done-by, priviliged whingers call it such.
But will the EU want us back in?
Why not?
Obviously if the current administration carry on threatening to, and maybe actually breaking international trade deals they themselves negotiated, and signed up to, then the EU, and every potential partner will be looking carefully at us. Who would sign any deal with us if we, as a nation, prove to be as duplicitous and untrustworthy as our present PM.
It takes years to build up trust, but one **** can ruin it all overnight.
The EU is a trading block. It didnt want us to leave, because things were working out to our mutual advantage. Yes, we had the whinging from those who thought it should all have been a one-way street. You know, they need us more than we need them, why cant we have all the advantages, but pay none of the costs, why can`t everything get better every single day.
But all of that was, and still is, empty rhetoric, and the Brexit lie, was always the same: we are special, leave now and everything we be “sunny uplands”, “all upsides, and no downsides”.
Sure we all want that to be true, but it is like voting for lower taxes and better hospitals, a totally impossible dream.
Yes, I think the EU will eventually want us back in, but not if we have a volatile political system, (4 Prime Ministers in six and a half years!) which could see us disrupting things for them again.
Politicians (mostly) arent kids who hold grudges. We do have few examples though who keep old chips balanced on their shoulder, but generally they look to the future, not harp back to lost empire. It is time we all did the same. We shouldnt forget or ignore our past glory days, but they are past now.
Time to wake up and do something positive, not constantly whinge on about how we are victim of some European conspiracy against us.
If we were were doing poorly in the EU when other countries were doing well, under exactly the same rules, whose fault is that? The whingers*, representing those who were failing to invest in the UK`s future, will be running out of scapegoats soon.
*Except of course, Rees-Mogg says Johnson has been hounded fro office by “remainers”, lack of passport facilities at Dover is the fault of the French…it goes on…
So going by that, the EU is an organisation that once you’re in, you’re in for life, there’s no getting out, it’s impossible. Should that be right?
GORDON 50:
So going by that, the EU is an organisation that once you’re in, you’re in for life, there’s no getting out, it’s impossible. Should that be right?
Oh I dunno, a small thing happened past few years that disproved that. Might have passed you by 
switchlogic:
GORDON 50:
So going by that, the EU is an organisation that once you’re in, you’re in for life, there’s no getting out, it’s impossible. Should that be right?Oh I dunno, a small thing happened past few years that disproved that. Might have passed you by
I did notice it (just about)! But the way some people go on, it’s a one way ticket when you join with no way out without some sort of apocalyptic disaster.
GORDON 50:
switchlogic:
GORDON 50:
So going by that, the EU is an organisation that once you’re in, you’re in for life, there’s no getting out, it’s impossible. Should that be right?Oh I dunno, a small thing happened past few years that disproved that. Might have passed you by
I did notice it (just about)! But the way some people go on, it’s a one way ticket when you join with no way out without some sort of apocalyptic disaster.
Do some people exaggerate?
Do “Impossible to get out” and “apocalyptic disaster” qualify as exaggerations?
Thank you, Gordon 50, for those examples.
switchlogic:
GORDON 50:
So going by that, the EU is an organisation that once you’re in, you’re in for life, there’s no getting out, it’s impossible. Should that be right?Oh I dunno, a small thing happened past few years that disproved that. Might have passed you by
Except for the big thing called a ‘withdrawal agreement’ being required before we were allowed to go.
Which meant BREXIT in name only we’re still under EU rule paying EU contributions.
For the privilege of importing German made stuff and providing jobs for East Euro drivers in the form of the single transport market and giving the EU our oil and gas while it tells us we mustn’t use it.
OK, slight exaggeration there. But the way some people go it’s as if we can’t function as a country outside of the EU.
> GORDON 50:
> OK, slight exaggeration there. But the way some people go it’s as if we can’t function as a country outside of the EU.
WE don’t seem to have functioned very well as a country for the last 12 years, in or out of the EU
whisperingsmith:
> GORDON 50:
> OK, slight exaggeration there. But the way some people go it’s as if we can’t function as a country outside of the EU.WE don’t seem to have functioned very well as a country for the last 12 years, in or out of the EU
Compared to who?