Radar19:
Companies will still ■■■■■■■ them further. If trucks are currently designed to run optimal at 56mph why do companies decide to restrict them to 52 or 49 or whatever.
Most companies that run at lower speeds are going back to 56 now. Plus running at lower speeds only really works if you run light. My opinion is that you need a bit of steam behind you for hills if you run heavy otherwise you drop gears too early, wasting more fuel in the process.
Are tesco not starting to turning their trucks back up on the recommendation of DAF and Merc due to possible DPF issues with running at lower speeds.
robert1952:
Even though I’m for ‘out,’ I have to say that I’m with Dolph on this one. We were supposed to go entirely metric in the UK in the early '70s, to go with decimalisation in '71. All the schools were geared up to it and what happened? Successive governments failed to deliver, ensuring that for the next 40 years kids would be taught a mish-mash of metres and miles, gallons and litres etc, thus slowing down maths education. Imperial measurement is in a number of different bases, whereas metric is all in base-10 making life simpler.
Robert
Firstly that’s arguably an unfair comparison between imperial v metric.I was one of those taught in both standards and always preferred imperial in most cases especially close tolerance engineering measured in fractions of an inch rather than millimetres with imperial generally providing easier,finer expressions of measurement.Such as lbs and feet and inches.On that note feet are used more in aviation than metres for example…While I thought that use and teaching of both standards was only a temporary thing during the 1970’s and maybe 80’s not later ?.
robert1952:
Even though I’m for ‘out,’ I have to say that I’m with Dolph on this one. We were supposed to go entirely metric in the UK in the early '70s, to go with decimalisation in '71. All the schools were geared up to it and what happened? Successive governments failed to deliver, ensuring that for the next 40 years kids would be taught a mish-mash of metres and miles, gallons and litres etc, thus slowing down maths education. Imperial measurement is in a number of different bases, whereas metric is all in base-10 making life simpler.
Robert
Firstly that’s arguably an unfair comparison between imperial v metric.I was one of those taught in both standards and always preferred imperial in most cases especially close tolerance engineering measured in fractions of an inch rather than millimetres with imperial generally providing easier,finer expressions of measurement.Such as lbs and feet and inches.On that note feet are used more in aviation than metres for example…While I thought that use and teaching of both standards was only a temporary thing during the 1970’s and maybe 80’s not later ?.
That’s fine among intelligent students at further/higher education level, but disastrous if you’re trying to help young children to acquire a real concept of units of measurement (how much do you think this tall vase holds? This flat dish? No, taller doesn’t mean higher volume; actually they are the same test it! - real conceptual learning).
As for the '80s cut-off point: that hasn’t arrived yet, as we still have miles, pints and all sorts of anomalies - so that’s 46 years of mish-mash! Robert
Firstly, thanks to Bluey Circles for an excellent post !
But I cant resist getting into the Imperial/Metric debate. Robert seems spot on to me. Metric is much easier for quick calculations. And as he points out still have a mish/mash of two systems when we should have gone fully metric years ago. And I cant see why Carryfast thinks Imperial is capable of finer measurements? Any system is capable of division. And a decimal based system is much easier to get along with than variable systems with bases of 12(inches) or 14(lbs) or 16(ozs) or 1750(yds) etc etc
Carryfast:
Firstly that’s arguably an unfair comparison between imperial v metric.I was one of those taught in both standards and always preferred imperial in most cases especially close tolerance engineering measured in fractions of an inch rather than millimetres with imperial generally providing easier,finer expressions of measurement.Such as lbs and feet and inches.On that note feet are used more in aviation than metres for example…While I thought that use and teaching of both standards was only a temporary thing during the 1970’s and maybe 80’s not later ?.
That’s fine among intelligent students at further/higher education level, but disastrous if you’re trying to help young children to acquire a real concept of units of measurement (how much do you think this tall vase holds? This flat dish? No, taller doesn’t mean higher volume; actually they are the same test it! - real conceptual learning).
As for the '80s cut-off point: that hasn’t arrived yet, as we still have miles, pints and all sorts of anomalies - so that’s 46 years of mish-mash! Robert
It’s just as easy to teach anyone real concepts of measurement in non metric units during their early stages just as in the case of American schools to date.From memory I think all my schooling at Junior level was in imperial during the 1960’s and then both being taught at senior school level during the 1970’s and expected to be understood equally in the work environment as or when required.Although in the 1970’s I generally used machines calibrated in imperial and worked to measurements and tolerances usually expressed as same while the education community in the technical colleges were increasingly using and teaching in metric.The result in my case at least being a good all round familiarity of both but with a,possibly genetic ?,preference for the imperial units.While I think I would have felt cheated if the education system hadn’t provided me with that familiarity with both systems.Which then just leaves it as a matter of choice in which,like the English language,imperial often rightly wins out given a free choice as in the case of aviation and distance and shopping measurements used and preferred by the public.
IE there’s no justification to make the issue a matter of forced conversion with those places like Canada and Australia which have done so arguably being more a case of typical PC trend setting than any real wish for change among the English speaking world in that regard.
Franglais:
I cant resist getting into the Imperial/Metric debate. Robert seems spot on to me. Metric is much easier for quick calculations. And as he points out still have a mish/mash of two systems when we should have gone fully metric years ago. And I cant see why Carryfast thinks Imperial is capable of finer measurements? Any system is capable of division. And a decimal based system is much easier to get along with than variable systems with bases of 12(inches) or 14(lbs) or 16(ozs) or 1750(yds) etc etc
If you want speed of calculation it’s quicker to work to measurements expressed in inches and decimal divisions of same or sometimes even 1/2,1/4,and 1/32 nd’s of an inch than the same expressed in metric.While even something like a bridge height is quicker and easier to work out to a finer tolerance v the height of the vehicle when you’re approaching it expressed in feet and inches than metres and fractions of a metre.Or for that matter distance expressed in hundreds and thousands of kilometres instead of the equivalent only needing to be expressed in tens and hundreds of miles.The fact is the reason why we have a mish mash is the same reason why America sticks with miles,lbs,pints and quarts and feet and inches.It’s what people prefer and if people didn’t like it they’d all be using metric.The English speaking world obviously often ( rightly ) being a different kettle of fish in that regard to our Euro neighbours.
Carryfast:
On that note feet are used more in aviation than metres for example.
Largely because it’s an American-dominated industry; and it isn’t just in flying either. Friend of mine has spent his life as an aircraft rigger, and tells me that one of the first thing new apprentices have to do in the classroom is an intensive course in Imperial measurements, as they’re no longer taught at school.
damoq:
Euro 6 trucks won’t like running at 50mph max. DPF probably won’t get hot enough causing loads of problems. On the other hand, trucks are designed to run at 56mph for optimal performance. Don’t know how much economy would suffer running at 60mph.
According to research by ■■■■■■■ in the USA, every mph above 55 reduces miles per (US gallon) by 0.1, so 0.5 for 60 mph.
Allowing for the difference in US and Imperial gallons (3.8 litres US and 4.5 Imp) running at 60 instead of 56 mpg would be reduced by just under 0.5.
Franglais:
I cant resist getting into the Imperial/Metric debate. Robert seems spot on to me. Metric is much easier for quick calculations. And as he points out still have a mish/mash of two systems when we should have gone fully metric years ago. And I cant see why Carryfast thinks Imperial is capable of finer measurements? Any system is capable of division. And a decimal based system is much easier to get along with than variable systems with bases of 12(inches) or 14(lbs) or 16(ozs) or 1750(yds) etc etc
If you want speed of calculation it’s quicker to work to measurements expressed in inches and decimal divisions of same or sometimes even 1/2,1/4,and 1/32 nd’s of an inch than the same expressed in metric.While even something like a bridge height is quicker and easier to work out to a finer tolerance v the height of the vehicle when you’re approaching it expressed in feet and inches than metres and fractions of a metre.Or for that matter distance expressed in hundreds and thousands of kilometres instead of the equivalent only needing to be expressed in tens and hundreds of miles.The fact is the reason why we have a mish mash is the same reason why America sticks with miles,lbs,pints and quarts and feet and inches.It’s what people prefer and if people didn’t like it they’d all be using metric.The English speaking world obviously often ( rightly ) being a different kettle of fish in that regard to our Euro neighbours.
Those in favour of Metric because it is “easier as it is all the same base” forget that it is also too easy to misplace the decimal point or miscount the number of zeros. Watch TV news or read newspapers and magazines as you will see instances where a figure is quoted which is incorrect by a factor of ten.
Even people brought up on the metric system have a feel for what a foot/pound/yard/mile/psi are and are unlikely to make an error of a factor of ten in these units, but have a poor idea of what, for example, kilonewtons per square meter means. (101.3 kN/msq is actually about one atmosphere, 14.7 psi)
Carryfast:
It’s just as easy to teach anyone real concepts of measurement in non metric units during their early stages…
I fear you miss my point: the teaching of DUAL systems slows down the learning of young children. The top percentile needn’t worry, but the great unwashed majority are not only disadvantaged but they then go on to water down the UK economy with shaking maths. Nothing wrong with progressing, as you suggest, from one to the other once a firm grounding of the ‘home’ system is in place. Robert
Im 25. i was taught milimeters centimeters and meters. i cannot stand it. it just hasnt made sense to me. i remember asking my dad an inch was and how many went into a foot. taught the rest to myself. i can estimate 14ft but ask me how far 4.3 meters is and i havnt a clue.
my point being since i was small ive prefered imperial.
also imperial is based on the segments of your fingers (not thumbs)
Carryfast:
It’s just as easy to teach anyone real concepts of measurement in non metric units during their early stages…
I fear you miss my point: the teaching of DUAL systems slows down the learning of young children. The top percentile needn’t worry, but the great unwashed majority are not only disadvantaged but they then go on to water down the UK economy with shaking maths. Nothing wrong with progressing, as you suggest, from one to the other once a firm grounding of the ‘home’ system is in place. Robert
To be fair I’ve always counted myself among the ‘great unwashed’ when it comes to maths. With even the example above regarding psi showing the advantages of imperial v metric to help the numerically challenged like myself.Therefore as I said,at least for the English speaking world,that’s the ideal in learning ‘our own’ first at the early stages and then progressing to learning both at least to an acceptable level.On that note any education system that doesn’t at least provide a basic understanding of both is a compromise too far based on metric user preference arrogance.Especially when that arrogance goes as far as not recognising the advantages of the imperial system of measurement where those advantages exist and for those who prefer to use them.In addition to it arguably being a typically PC move by those with the intent of diluting the English culture.
Meanwhile in keeping with the acedemic nature of the topic. I saw an interesting TV programme concerning the inability of the science community to make real world space observations match the figures and believe it or not they were asking the general public for answers. Which left me with the question what if Einstein was actually right about the Cosmological constant and there’s another reason which might explain the red shift. Like actual interstellar/inter galactic distances being less than the distance travelled by the light we see.Bearing in mind that space time can be curved by gravity and we supposedly don’t yet know the exact nature of dark matter.IE if I sent a pulse of light through a fibre optic cable between here and Glasgow but sent it around the world to do it for example would it show a distance travelled of 24,000 miles or 500 and assuming the former would that create a doppler effect at the Glasgow receiver compared to the same light source directed through a direct link cable ?.
Also bearing in mind that it takes a lot less numbers required to measure light years based on the speed of light measured in MPH not km/h.
Carryfast: “If you want speed of calculation it’s quicker to work to measurements expressed in inches and decimal divisions of same or sometimes even 1/2,1/4,and 1/32 nd’s of an inch than the same expressed in metric.”
How so? If a length is expressed in Yards Feet and Inches how is calculation achieved quicker? Seems to me Metric (in the general case) wins over your “cherry picked”, inches only, Imperial case.
Carryfast: “The English speaking world obviously often ( rightly ) being a different kettle of fish in that regard to our Euro neighbours”.
Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Eire, have all adopted, or are in the process of metrication. They`re part of the English speaking world I believe.
Buckstones: " Even people brought up on the metric system have a feel for what a foot/pound/yard/mile/psi are and are unlikely to make an error of a factor of ten in these units, but have a poor idea of what, for example, kilonewtons per square meter means. (101.3 kN/msq is actually about one atmosphere, 14.7 psi)".
I doubt that the populations of France, Germany, Italy have a feel for feet, pounds and miles etc, although they may be aware of them. And I`m glad you used the example of “atmospheres” to clarify pressures. A unit of pressure widely used on european pressure gauges.
I wonder how many of the younger among us still think in guineas, pounds, shillings and pence? Hell, how many older people still convert back?? When you all buy fuel do you remember when petrol was Xshillings per gallon to compare with current prices of pence per litre? How crazy is it we cant do with a coupla years pain to get to a better place? Ill bet almost no-one in the Euro Zone converts back to Francs Lire or pesetas any more.
Carryfast: “.IE if I sent a pulse of light through a fibre optic cable between here and Glasgow but sent it around the world to do it for example would it show a distance travelled of 24,000 miles or 500 and assuming the former would that create a doppler effect at the Glasgow receiver compared to the same light source directed through a direct link cable ?.”
The doppler effect, which explains the red shift of light sources diverging, is due to relative movement of source and receiver. So, sending a light pulse directly, or indirectly, between two points, assuming you and Glasgow are both stable, (pauses for applause), will not result in any effect. A single light pulse, split and sent by the two routes would be the same colour on reception.
Carryfast: “Also bearing in mind that it takes a lot less numbers required to measure light years based on the speed of light measured in MPH not km/h.”
Speed of Light from NASA: 186,000 miles/sec
Speed of Light 3.00×108 m/s
So, not such a great difference really. And light years seems a better unit after all?
EDIT: speed of light is 3.00 x 10 to the power of 8 but can`t get my keyboard to do that. Sorry. Prob me not the machine to be honest.
Franglais:
Carryfast: “If you want speed of calculation it’s quicker to work to measurements expressed in inches and decimal divisions of same or sometimes even 1/2,1/4,and 1/32 nd’s of an inch than the same expressed in metric.”
How so? If a length is expressed in Yards Feet and Inches how is calculation achieved quicker? Seems to me Metric (in the general case) wins over your “cherry picked”, inches only, Imperial case.
Carryfast: “The English speaking world obviously often ( rightly ) being a different kettle of fish in that regard to our Euro neighbours”.
Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Eire, have all adopted, or are in the process of metrication. They`re part of the English speaking world I believe.
Buckstones: " Even people brought up on the metric system have a feel for what a foot/pound/yard/mile/psi are and are unlikely to make an error of a factor of ten in these units, but have a poor idea of what, for example, kilonewtons per square meter means. (101.3 kN/msq is actually about one atmosphere, 14.7 psi)".
I doubt that the populations of France, Germany, Italy have a feel for feet, pounds and miles etc, although they may be aware of them. And I`m glad you used the example of “atmospheres” to clarify pressures. A unit of pressure widely used on european pressure gauges.
By your metric logic we’d have abolished all the other measurements except the yard and decimal fractions of the yard.IE replace miles,feet and inches with Kilo yards and Centi yards and Milli yards. On that note using feet and inches isn’t cherry picking it’s using the advantage of having a relevant unit of measurement for the relevant measure required.Which is why it’s a faster and more accurate measurement to say a bridge height of 13 feet 6 inches than to work out or even visualise the same measurement expressed in yards and decimal fractions of yards ( or metres in this case ).Let alone that bonkers metric expression of pressure shown previously or the idea of having to refer to a yard based fraction for an inch and inch based fraction measurement.
As for Italy I’m sure they’d be ecstatic to be told that the Mille Miglia now has to be expressed in Kilometres.
Carryfast “As for Italy I’m sure they’d be ecstatic to be told that the Mille Miglia now has to be expressed in Kilometres”
I`ve gotta laugh ! As I was typing my post I was thinking about the Mille Miglia, and that the French quote bicycle wheel sizes in “puces” or inches.
Franglais:
Carryfast “As for Italy I’m sure they’d be ecstatic to be told that the Mille Miglia now has to be expressed in Kilometres”
Ive gotta laugh ! As I was typing my post I was thinking about the Mille Miglia, and that the French quote bicycle wheel sizes in “puces” or inches.[/quo
Livre is a French measure of half a kilo, roughly the same as a pound, still sometimes used.
Franglais:
Carryfast: “.IE if I sent a pulse of light through a fibre optic cable between here and Glasgow but sent it around the world to do it for example would it show a distance travelled of 24,000 miles or 500 and assuming the former would that create a doppler effect at the Glasgow receiver compared to the same light source directed through a direct link cable ?.”
The doppler effect, which explains the red shift of light sources diverging, is due to relative movement of source and receiver. So, sending a light pulse directly, or indirectly, between two points, assuming you and Glasgow are both stable, (pauses for applause), will not result in any effect. A single light pulse, split and sent by the two routes would be the same colour on reception.
Great question.From the light’s and doppler point of view how does the 24,000 mile running light pulse know that Glasgow didn’t actually move 23,500 miles further away in the same time as it took the 500 mile light pulse to make the same distance ?. IE what if the doppler effect can be linked to relativety.
Buckstones:
Livre is a French measure of half a kilo, roughly the same as a pound, still sometimes used.
I guess the “Livre” comes from the latin or Roman “Libra” which in effect is where the british pound originates, the short symbol for the British pound weight is “lb” (hence libra) So indeed the great british pound is really Roman.
And the Pound Sterling also has its connection with Libra (the £ symbol being derived from a very fancy latin “L”) and once represented 240 silver pennies that weighed a pound in weight.
With even the example above regarding psi showing the advantages of imperial v metric to help the numerically challenged like myself.Therefore as I said,at least for the English speaking world,that’s the ideal in learning ‘our own’ first at the early stages and then progressing to learning both at least to an acceptable level.On that note any education system that doesn’t at least provide a basic understanding of both is a compromise too far based on metric user preference arrogance.Especially when that arrogance goes as far as not recognising the advantages of the imperial system of measurement where those advantages exist and for those who prefer to use them.In addition to it arguably being a typically PC move by those with the intent of diluting the English culture.
I saw an interesting TV programme concerning the inability of the science community to make real world space observations match the figures and believe it or not they were asking the general public for answers. 
IE what if the doppler effect can be linked to relativety.