Brexit , borders and lorries

Road haulage chiefs warn there is an 80 per cent chance of ‘chaos in Kent’ on January 1 because the Government has failed to put in place an adequate post-Brexit customs system and ministers are in ‘denial’

Road Haulage Association said ministers not ‘getting the message’ on customs
Chief Richard Burnett said new customs system is ‘not happening fast enough’
He warned there is currently an 80 per cent of a border meltdown on January 1

Road haulage chiefs today warned there is an 80 per cent chance of ‘chaos in Kent’ on January 1 because the Government has failed to put in place an adequate post-Brexit customs system.

Richard Burnett, chief executive of the Road Haulage Association, told MPs that ministers are in ‘denial’ about the prospect of a border meltdown as lorry drivers are forced to adapt to new paperwork.

He said ministers and civil servants simply ‘don’t get’ what could happen and they have a misplaced ‘self belief in their own rhetoric at the moment, that everything will be okay’.

Mr Burnett said the roll out of the new system was ‘not happening fast enough’ as he warned there is not enough time to recruit and train all of the customs agents who will be needed to help businesses navigate post-Brexit checks.

The Road Haulage Association is demanding an urgent meeting with Chancellor Rishi Sunak and Transport Secretary Grant Shapps to raise concerns in person.

New border arrangements are due to come into force next year after the end of the Brexit transition period.

Lorry drivers without the correct paperwork for exporting into the EU risk being stopped from boarding ferries and the industry fears that could result in massive traffic jams on the roads leading to ports in the south east.

Mr Burnett was asked during an appearance in front of the Future Relationship with the European Union Select Committee to estimate the chances of ‘chaos in Kent’ next year.

He said: ‘In terms of my gut feeling as we stand here today with 81 days to go with the amount of work that we have got to undertake, chaos in Kent, 80/20 for, potentially.

‘If businesses try to dispatch because they haven’t got customs agents to do the paperwork then the chances are they are still going to want to trade, they are still going to want to drive volume there and if we are not ready then the likelihood is we will have chaos.’

Mr Burnett said the industry’s fear is that there will be 'significant disruption potentially at the year end’ mainly because the UK will not have enough customs agents.

Hilary Benn, the chairman of the committee, asked why ministers seemingly ‘don’t get’ the border issue.

Mr Burnett said: 'I don’t know why they don’t get it. They really should because we’ve been talking about this for some time now.

‘We’ve been providing warnings of what may happen. I think there’s almost a kind of self belief in their own rhetoric at the moment, that everything will be okay.

'But the devil is in the detail, and some of the fundamental things that need to change, and some of the things that need to be invested in, are simply not happening fast enough.

‘If we go back to the primary point which is about customs intermediaries and having the number of customs agents available to deal with the increased number of declarations, some 200 million additional declarations on top of the 50 million that are done for the rest of the world at the moment, we are a long way off being able to recruit those customs agents.’

Mr Burnett said it ‘takes a significant amount of time to train and prepare these individuals’ to be in a position to help businesses export.

‘It can take six to 12 months just to familiarise yourself but probably three years to really understand how the process works end to end and we have got 81 working days between now and the end of the year to be able to recruit the number of agents that are required,’ he said.

‘The intelligence that is coming back from the industry is that there is a denial, there is an apathy, there is a real sense that government is not getting the message across that this is going to happen, the communications are not clear I don’t think.’

Mr Burnett called on the Government to agree an implementation period with the EU so that new customs rules and requirements can be phased in.

dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … -Kent.html

Darkside:

blue estate:
If you old muppets didn’t vote yes to joining the EU in the early 70’s then none of this mess would have happened

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Another intelligent post from the forum snowflake…

Posting on a thread he claims not to have read is a bit like voting for something that has no benefits.

Says the forum fish who bites every time

Sent while from gods know where

all due respect blue estate the people voted to join a common market in the 70’s not this stranglehold of a union that it has morphed into… :exclamation:

m.a.n rules:
all due respect blue estate the people voted to join a common market in the 70’s not this stranglehold of a union that it has morphed into… :exclamation:

Yes I know, shame they didn’t have fore sight
My mum and dad and other family members voted no to joining

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well if we all had foresight there really would be a driver shortage… :slight_smile:

m.a.n rules:
well if we all had foresight there really would be a driver shortage… :slight_smile:

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

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Way back in the mid 70’s at the Syrian border at Bab Al Hawa, I turned up at Mohamed Awhad’s office to sort out the Arab paperwork & insurances.
I can’t remember how much it cost, but it was quite a few ££££s – I’d had a few unexpected expenses that left me short to pay his Bill – so I asked if I could pay him on the way home – yes of course Mr Geoff “Mafi Problem”

It so happened there was a German driver in the office at the same time who also asked to be helped out by paying on his way home – Awhad declined & when challenged by the German driver explained that I was British & therefore my word was my bond.

Absolutely Shameful that our USA born Turkish American prime minister is happy to end all of that trust.

Back in the day any Pre-Brexshiteer driver killing that trust would be blacklisted by all the other drivers + we would make up any loss that those Pre-Brexshiteers caused to our agents & helpers.

We can revisit the 1960’s I s’pose. UK was losing the cheap imports of raw goods and the captive market of colonies.
The Eu countries were way behind us in production in the 50’s but had overtaken us by then.
Would we have done better in the 70’s and after, if we had stayed out?
Arguable point, but we were heading steeply down before joining the Common Market.
.
Could the Common Market have continued as it was? Just a trade group?
What if one member wants to gain an advantage by polluting more? Or paying lower wages than neighbouring countries?
That is a national choice, but it spreads beyond borders.
If Germany polluted the Rhine then downstream countries would suffer.
Lower safety standards in one country steals well paid, and safe jobs from elsewhere.
A basic free market is a race to the bottom.
Fake news stories about rules on bent bananas spread about by biased press barons, and written by…guess who… don’t serve the public well.
Misunderstandings of how the EU parliament functions, don’t help either.
Small Belgians twiddle their moustache and solve crimes on trains. They don’t invent and enforce silly laws!
Do silly laws exist? Yep. But are more invented by the EU than the UK pro rata?
Is having unelected Ministers appointed by one man democratic? That’s what we have in the UK.

This picture sums up Brexit to me:

ffs he’s on his phone… :open_mouth: :smiley:

whisperingsmith:
This picture sums up Brexit to me:

Cor blimey guvnor . . . them’s the proper good old days and no mistake. We were a power then, and we will be again . . . hic . . .

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dexxy57:

whisperingsmith:
This picture sums up Brexit to me:

Cor blimey guvnor . . . them’s the proper good old days and no mistake. We were a power then, and we will be again . . . hic . . .

Sent from my H8314 using Tapatalk

We went out and conquered…um, err, civilised…umm…helped… loads of other countries before, so why not do it again?
I’m sure that there are vast swathes of the world who would welcome exploita…umm…partnership…with such an honest and trustworthy country as us.

Franglais:
We went out and conquered…um, err, civilised…umm…helped… loads of other countries before, so why not do it again?
I’m sure that there are vast swathes of the world who would welcome exploita…umm…partnership…with such an honest and trustworthy country as us.

Two World Wars, a World Cup and an Empire. Bring back the glory days. Gawd bless yer Mr Farage.

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dexxy57:

Franglais:
We went out and conquered…um, err, civilised…umm…helped… loads of other countries before, so why not do it again?
I’m sure that there are vast swathes of the world who would welcome exploita…umm…partnership…with such an honest and trustworthy country as us.

Two World Wars, a World Cup and an Empire. Bring back the glory days. Gawd bless yer Mr Farage.

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:smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :laughing:

Highly amusing seeing ‘The Grey Man’ and the other one with ‘Something of the night about him’ getting their knickers in a twist over the Internal Market Bill with much gnashing of teeth, so what? nothing is new: Great Britain has been Perfidious Albion since the time of the treaty of Limerick and even further. Rather apt that the current fuss is over another Treaty which affects Northern ireland.

cav551:
Highly amusing seeing ‘The Grey Man’ and the other one with ‘Something of the night about him’ getting their knickers in a twist over the Internal Market Bill with much gnashing of teeth, so what? nothing is new: Great Britain has been Perfidious Albion since the time of the treaty of Limerick and even further. Rather apt that the current fuss is over another Treaty which affects Northern ireland.

*“adopt a more reasonable attitude than: “everyone must obey our rules… er that is until it suits us for them not to do so”.”

You seem to have once thought that those who set rules, and then choose to break them are not reasonable.
When did you change your mind and want to support unreasonable behaviour?

cav551:
Highly amusing

I remember one trip to Saudi - 1975 ish - arriving at Bab Al Hawa short of cash, I asked Mahmouhd Ahwad if I could pay him on the way back.

His reply was “No problem Mister Geoff”

There was also a German driver who asked for similar treatment
Ahwad said sorry but No!! - the reason being that as British I would honour my word.

No-one else except the Brits got that treatment & we protected it - any one behaving like the Tories or Farage was dealt with & never did darken ME routes again.

I find it shameful that our Turkish/American PM along with Gove, Mogg & Co. & assorted (C**ts) are prepared to kill off all that trust we worked so hard to sustain

I know how boring life gets behind the wheel after 9am, when have to drive, and nothing interesting to listen to on the radio, as those most interesting programs on BBC Radio 4 are over, so in such eventuality, what I do, is I download interesting videos from YT to my video player and listen to them while driving.

And there’s quite a lot happening lately, and it seems like it’s going to be a very interesting week ahead.

The UK government announced last Friday that it had agreed with Japan a new trade deal. In this video, he takes a look at the claims from the government, what we can infer, without having seen the details yet, and how it still doesn’t come close to compensating for the massive loss to GDP that brexit is going to cost the country.I
m.youtube.com/watch?v=ttZFQ1Kjitc

Wasn’t Brexit supposed to be about democracy? Is this the democracy, russian style, that Brexiters voted for?

The Council of Europe has recently issued Boris Johnson’s government with another media alert over their refusal to engage with the press. But the government’s picking and choosing of which sections of the media it engages with is not only undemocratic, but self-defeating when the Conservatives have the bulk of the media behind them anyway.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=LU6fwTUDWnE

Boris Johnson has scheduled his law breaking internal market bill to be pushed through parliament next week at some pace. There are Conservative MPs who are planning to vote against it. If it clears the House of Commons, the House of Lords is also likely to be firm and block it. The EU have also stated their legal opinion on the matter, and have planned legal action - though this is not expected to take place before the end of the year.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=-xLpyi78A6w

Boris Johnson is facing a rebellion of MPs refusing to follow his brexit lead and break international law. The rebellion is not strong enough to defeat him next week, but the panic in arranging a conference call to Conservative backbench MPs must be a sign that opposition could grow over the weekend. This makes next week’s passage of the bill through
m.youtube.com/watch?v=BAHyKCEKWX8

Published on 11 Sep 2020
It is universally accepted, even by Boris Johnson’s government, that the internal market bill will break international law in order to continue denying brexit realities. So, the UK as a nation is breaking the law. But who are the actual people who will carry out this grisly task, and what are the implications for them?
m.youtube.com/watch?v=FvmXo31Fq04

Taking a look at a range of viewer comments and questions on the crisis thrown up by Boris Johnson threatening to break international law with his new brexit bill.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=qiXh2■■■8DU

Here are youtube videos downloaders for you to download and listen while you drive.
download.cnet.com/youtube-downl … s/android/
I.use TubeMate which works very well.
Simple to download, simple to use

Boris Johnson Suspending Human Rights Laws Now

So, if you thought that getting ready to break international laws whilst also getting ready to dump our existing international agreements, whilst also dealing (badly) with a global pandemic would be keeping Boris Johnson’s government busy, you’d be wrong it seems. They think they also have time to suspend some human rights laws while they at it.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=VIaui3Fpp8E

And maybe a few interesting comments from below the video:

Funny how “independence” and “sovereignity” turn out… instead of protections outside of the grip of the government, the UK got a bunch of traitors who work hard to burn down the country… Putin certainly loves every second of this.

The European Court of Human Rights is NOT an EU institition. Unless the UK withdraws from that too, they are facing legal action.

Blond dictator goes crazy. Legal suppression, a refusal to accept rules of governance with secrecy at the core of the corruption. Comparisons to Orwell’s nightmare states are done too often, but here it is totally correct.

Our human rights laws also include employment protection rights, the Tories failed to mention that

I don’t get it, is there some kind of race to the bottom that America and the UK are competing

The human rights act doesn’t need fixing. It’s not broken.
Article 2: Right to life

Article 3: Freedom from torture and inhuman or degrading treatment

Article 4: Freedom from slavery and forced labour

Article 5: Right to liberty and security

Article 6: Right to a fair trial

Article 7: No punishment without law

Article 8: Respect for your private and family life, home and correspondence

Article 9: Freedom of thought, belief and religion

Article 10: Freedom of expression

Article 11: Freedom of assembly and association

Article 12: Right to marry and start a family

Article 14: Protection from discrimination in respect of these rights and freedoms

Protocol 1, Article 1: Right to peaceful enjoyment of your property

Protocol 1, Article 2: Right to education

Protocol 1, Article 3: Right to participate in free elections

Protocol 13, Article 1: Abolition of the death penalty

NHS is safe with us" is looking pretty dodgy now. I expect it’s on ■■■■■■■■■ list.

You just couldn’t make this up. This government is willing to break the international law because they don’t want to comply with the EUs requirement of no state aid for failing companies, but they are happy to sign up to even stricter no state aid demands from Japan, and they call it a success trade deal.

Japan trade deal commits UK to stricter state aid curbs than in EU talks

The UK’s new trade deal with Japan commits it to tougher restrictions on state aid than the ones it is currently offering the EU in the Brexit talks, potentially undermining its negotiating position with Brussels.

In the bilateral UK-Japan agreement announced in principle on Friday, London and Tokyo have agreed to replicate the restrictions on subsidies in the EU-Japan deal that went into effect last year. That agreement prohibits the governments from indefinitely guaranteeing the debts of struggling companies or providing an open-ended bailout without a clear restructuring plan in place.

By contrast, the UK has repeatedly told the EU that it must have total freedom over state aid after the end of the Brexit transition period with complete autonomy over future subsidy decisions, subject to WTO rules.

The so-called level-playing-field issues have become the main sticking point in the EU-UK negotiations, with London resisting Brussels’s demands for it to remain within the tough EU state aid regime.

Britain’s proposal to the EU would merely require each side to notify the other of subsidies rather than restricting them. Its offer replicates the EU’s commitments in earlier bilateral trade deals, such as the one with

complete autonomy over future subsidy decisions, subject to WTO rules.

The so-called level-playing-field issues have become the main sticking point in the EU-UK negotiations, with London resisting Brussels’s demands for it to remain within the tough EU state aid regime.

Britain’s proposal to the EU would merely require each side to notify the other of subsidies rather than restricting them. Its offer replicates the EU’s commitments in earlier bilateral trade deals, such as the one with Canada that went into force in 2017.

A government spokesman said: “The UK offer to the EU is based on the arrangements agreed between Canada and the EU.

“The UK-Japan agreement contains similar commitments, including on transparency about subsidies awarded and consultations over any concerns about those subsidies which may affect the other party.”

However, the contradiction between the two positions has created consternation within the UK government.

A person familiar with internal Whitehall deliberations said that the UK’s chief Brexit negotiator David Frost had raised concerns that Liz Truss, international trade secretary, had given more away to Japan on level playing field issues than was being offered to Brussels.

One ally of Ms Truss said that the state aid elements of the Japan deal were “just a standard clause in any free trade agreement” rather than a more generous concession. “The idea that we’ve given too much away is rubbish as far as I’m concerned.”

Trade experts said it would be awkward for the UK to maintain contrasting positions in two sets of talks.

George Peretz, a barrister at the Monckton legal chambers in London, said: “The provisions on state aid in the EU-Japan FTA create some quite hard-edged commitments not to provide open-ended government support to companies.

“If the UK-Japan FTA replicates those provisions, the UK will need to legislate to ensure that British public bodies do not contravene them. That could well compromise the UK’s negotiating position with the EU, where it has not offered anything like that level of commitment.”

But some lawyers also stressed that the subsidy rules in the Japan bilateral deal were still weak compared with the detailed and invasive EU state aid regime.

James Webber, a partner at the law firm Shearman & Sterling, said: “It’s a concession of sorts by the UK, but if this is where the negotiations end up, it will be much closer to the UK’s view of the world than the EU’s.”

A government spokesperson said: “In all our trade negotiations, including with the EU and with Japan, we consistently make proposals which provide for open and fair competition, on the basis of high standards, in a way which is appropriate to a modern free trade agreement between sovereign and autonomous equals.”
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