cav551:
unless of course it is a triaxle trailer then it can be done unladen.
You’re 100% correct that is what it says in the gov.uk guidance (link below) but this can be (and for us was) overruled by the TC, to the point it was added to the O-licence as a specific undertaking.
Zac_A:
cav551:
unless of course it is a triaxle trailer then it can be done unladen.You’re 100% correct that is what it says in the gov.uk guidance (link below) but this can be (and for us was) overruled by the TC, to the point it was added to the O-licence as a specific undertaking.
As soon as an operator has those sort of conditions added, makes us wonder what had happened in the past . It’s not usually a condition from day one.
Step 1 - Report to DVSA
Step 2 - Find new job
Acorn:
As soon as an operator has those sort of conditions added, makes us wonder what had happened in the past . It’s not usually a condition from day one.
Client confidentiality prevents me from giving you a potted history of their situation, apart from saying that it was closing time at the last chance saloon when they came to us in desparate need of a lifeline. I don’t need to wonder what went on before, I got the full brief from DVSA and the specialist transport Solicitor 
before I agreed to take the role, so I knew it was going to be a very tough gig from day one. The TC was happy with the improvements we made, but we kept the laden RBTs as standard practice even before the new guidance appeared, which I think is entirely appropriate for everyone.
Someone earlier mentioned the Bath fatalities of 2015, anyone who thinks brake testing isn’t a top priority for all hauliers needs to watch this.
youtube.com/watch?v=e5CkqL6I2p0
The old memory’s failing a bit, but what happened to the driver?
peterm:
The old memory’s failing a bit, but what happened to the driver?
if you are refering to the Bath crash, the driver got off, on account of his inexperience, having been pushed by his boss, and his boss’ historical record. And the fact that the fitter responsible for the brakes was in on the racket.
They took pity on the driver, on account that he was young and inexperienced, been taken advantige of by the boss, and that he had to live with the fact that his truck killed three man and a young girl.
peterm:
The old memory’s failing a bit, but what happened to the driver?
Bath tipper crash in 2015?
The driver 19 years old, and passed his test that week, was found not guilty by the jury.
30 yr old truck owner got 7years, 6 months, 55 yr old mechanic 5 years 3months, for manslaughter.
The truck had brake failure on a hill and ran down a Woman and her Grand-daughter, then crashed into a car.
The 4 yr old and three men in a parked car killed, the woman lost both legs below the knee.
Hahahahaha.
Speaking of the Bath tipper tragedy which was discussed at length in this place at the time, could i as a driver ask fellow drivers to desist from the modern method they’ve been taught comprising ‘brakes to slow gears to go’.
BTSGTG is simply wrong in a truck, its fine in a car but its not how trucks should be driven.
It may be considered old fashioned to make use of appropriate gears and whatever type of auxilliary brake is fitted (typically exhaust brake), but the truck makers themselves don’t think its old fashioned because at huge cost they typically fit auto deceleration programs into the vehicle to help slow the vehicle, as is traditional and common sense in trucks, often only needs a button pressed to trigger these systems and the vehicle will automatically downshift and use appropriate engine revs for maximum ■■■■■■ for you.
If you’ve got a proper engine brake or retarder then lucky you, the typical exhauster won’t match dedicated retarders for effort but better than nothing and if you select gears yourself in combination with a good exhauster its surpriosing just how seldom you need to use the brakes at all during a journey.
Doing this in normal practice doesn’t just make your brakes last many times longer, that might not interest you but it might just save you and others from hurt if a sudden panic stop is called for and instead of already being overheated by unecessary overuse the brakes are cool and ready for whatever might be demanded of them.
The Bath Tipper Crash was a terrible tragedy in which several innocent people died because of the actions and lack of action, of those very correctly found guilty of various very serious charges at the trial, with prison sentences being passed down.
Since this is a technical discussion about brake testing the following contribution from a forum member at the time warrants inclusion for the benefit of those who know little about the crash. The technical evidence was poorly presented by the DVSA expert who initially claimed that the vehicle’s brake efficiency was only 35% or 28%. Photographs of the vehicle involved show it on its side, front axle ripped off, offside front of the cab severely damaged and the load spilled all over the road.
"The vehicle involved had drums all round, it wouldn’t have been the sharpest straight from the factory. I’m not 100% convinced the accident would not have happened if he’d been given the truck immediately after its last MOT when brake efficiency was calculated at just over 50%.
From the VOSA investigation they originally said they made the efficiency 35% then, after input from the technical expert retained by the driver’s defence team changed their mind to 28% - incidentally after the VOSA examiner put in a very poor performance under cross examination the day before.
My problem is, due to their failure to also measure the temperature of the brakes on each axle, in the aftermath of the crash, I have very little faith that the brakes were as bad as they attempted, and clearly as far as the jury, who are not technically familiar with truck braking systems, were concerned successfully managed to portray.
I don’t have confidence they, for instance, sanded the heat glaze from the friction material and also if, as witnesses state, black smoke was pouring from the brakes this means quite a substantial amount of friction material will be being lost in the process. Therefore the slack adjusters would need to be adjusted up, to some degree, to allow for this. It also seemed a happy coincidence that the worst performing brakes they found, in the investigation, happened to be found on the axle that was totally ripped off the truck in the crash.
My suspicion is the braking efficiency may have been over 40% or more in reality so there is no reason why most drivers would not have been able to descend the hill safely. The VOSA examiner even admitted that 1 in 10 vehicles they pull at the roadside would have brakes in a similarly bad condition but they aren’t constantly crashing down hills. It is a thankfully rare occurrence."
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cav551:
The Bath Tipper Crash was a terrible tragedy in which several innocent people died because of the actions and lack of action, of those very correctly found guilty of various very serious charges at the trial, with prison sentences being passed down.Since this is a technical discussion about brake testing the following contribution from a forum member at the time warrants inclusion for the benefit of those who know little about the crash. The technical evidence was poorly presented by the DVSA expert who initially claimed that the vehicle’s brake efficiency was only 35% or 28%. Photographs of the vehicle involved show it on its side, front axle ripped off, offside front of the cab severely damaged and the load spilled all over the road.
"The vehicle involved had drums all round, it wouldn’t have been the sharpest straight from the factory. I’m not 100% convinced the accident would not have happened if he’d been given the truck immediately after its last MOT when brake efficiency was calculated at just over 50%.
From the VOSA investigation they originally said they made the efficiency 35% then, after input from the technical expert retained by the driver’s defence team changed their mind to 28% - incidentally after the VOSA examiner put in a very poor performance under cross examination the day before.
My problem is, due to their failure to also measure the temperature of the brakes on each axle, in the aftermath of the crash, I have very little faith that the brakes were as bad as they attempted, and clearly as far as the jury, who are not technically familiar with truck braking systems, were concerned successfully managed to portray.
I don’t have confidence they, for instance, sanded the heat glaze from the friction material and also if, as witnesses state, black smoke was pouring from the brakes this means quite a substantial amount of friction material will be being lost in the process. Therefore the slack adjusters would need to be adjusted up, to some degree, to allow for this. It also seemed a happy coincidence that the worst performing brakes they found, in the investigation, happened to be found on the axle that was totally ripped off the truck in the crash.
My suspicion is the braking efficiency may have been over 40% or more in reality so there is no reason why most drivers would not have been able to descend the hill safely. The VOSA examiner even admitted that 1 in 10 vehicles they pull at the roadside would have brakes in a similarly bad condition but they aren’t constantly crashing down hills. It is a thankfully rare occurrence."
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Good read. Cheers 
halewood:
Hahahahaha.
WTF?
I thought that too.
And me. 
the nodding donkey:
peterm:
The old memory’s failing a bit, but what happened to the driver?if you are refering to the Bath crash, the driver got off, on account of his inexperience, having been pushed by his boss, and his boss’ historical record. And the fact that the fitter responsible for the brakes was in on the racket.
They took pity on the driver, on account that he was young and inexperienced, been taken advantige of by the boss, and that he had to live with the fact that his truck killed three man and a young girl.
Yes the Bath crash is right. I suppose the inexperience would have come in to play and I have to wonder if he went back to driving again, for a living.