Did everyone not read the bottom of that article?
Malky80:
Winseer:
Why is everyone so keen to work more hours for less, rather than see empoyers forced to pay more for a limited number of hours that cannot be exceeded upon pain of death?If the max time allowed on a full time driving job were say, 48 hours on duty, 12 hours max per day on duty, and the same 9/10 hours actually driving vigerously enforced… There would be a general move to make all driving jobs 4x12 shift weeks, so all full timers would get an extra day off, save 20% off their commute, and get the same money - because any employer who thinks they can openly cut rates NOW is asking to be taken out and shot!
+1
There’s no harm in just aligning duty with driving hours IE there’s no difference.Therefore trucks can keep rolling until the daily time limit is up.Whereas they’d be stopped under EU regs because they’ve run out of driving time.EU regs are the worst of all worlds situation of excessively long duty time limits and unrealistically low driving time limits.All of which have to be adhered to and calculated on a different independent basis.Whereas if the rules just said 12 hours a day max 1 hour break and 12 hours off with no seperate driving time limits that would remove the need to have to calculate two seperate types of work while allowing trucks to get where they are going or find suitable parking.Whereas now the EU forces them to stop long before the day needs to be over.So we’ve got knackered drivers driving too few miles over too long days.
As for Boris the bser if he was serious about the hours regs issue he would have said that Tory policy is now one of withdrawing from the EU hours regs system and returning to domestic regs under the above simplified hours framework. Together with a firm cut off date for it’s implementation.If the EU doesn’t like it then tough that’s one more reason for our EU withdrawal.
Juddian:
He’s just another europhile politician, telling people what they want to hear, making noises like Cameron about things he has no control over whatsoever because we no longer make our own laws.They’d sell their own grannies for votes.
Or in other words lying to try to limit the swing to UKIP in order to try to keep the Cons together as a credible political Party.Rather than allow nature to take it’s course in the form of the real political choice at the election of an anti EU Conservative and UKIP alliance v a LabLibDem one and what remains of the Europhile Cons standing as a new Federalist Conservative Party so the electorate know exactly who and what they are actually voting for.
12 hours off being enforced probably won’t help much. How would anyone change forward in shift pattern?
It’s the driver who runs out of hours - not the truck. Why not just have the same truck used by 3 drivers a day, with overlapping duty (but NOT use times) so when driver B starts their shift, it’s say, an hour or two before driver A gets back with the truck, during which time they can do the indoor part of their duty… Don’t fancy any indoor part? - What kind of versatile driver are we if we only ever want to be steering wheel attendents? 
Carryfast:
Juddian:
He’s just another europhile politician, telling people what they want to hear, making noises like Cameron about things he has no control over whatsoever because we no longer make our own laws.They’d sell their own grannies for votes.
Or in other words lying to try to limit the swing to UKIP in order to try to keep the Cons together as a credible political Party.Rather than allow nature to take it’s course in the form of the real political choice at the election of an anti EU Conservative and UKIP alliance v a LabLibDem one and what remains of the Europhile Cons standing as a new Federalist Conservative Party so the electorate know exactly who and what they are actually voting for.
Basically, that’s EXACTLY what the next election is the choice of… Ukip & Tory vs Labour and Cleggy trying to bat for the other team this time… I wonder if Milliband would just be as daft as to drink poison on demand which is what accepting clegg into a coalition would represent… Even Cleggy realised in 2010 that a LibLab pact would HAVE to be “without Gordon Brown”, thus the “coalition of losers” didn’t even get off the ground… They didn’t have enough seats between them anyway. 
Winseer:
12 hours off being enforced probably won’t help much. How would anyone change forward in shift pattern?It’s the driver who runs out of hours - not the truck. Why not just have the same truck used by 3 drivers a day, with overlapping duty (but NOT use times) so when driver B starts their shift, it’s say, an hour or two before driver A gets back with the truck, during which time they can do the indoor part of their duty… Don’t fancy any indoor part? - What kind of versatile driver are we if we only ever want to be steering wheel attendents?
Why do they need to change shift patterns and what employer would want to under employ drivers over 3 shifts of 8 rather than two shifts of 12.While no one is saying that 12 hours can’t be made up of a mixture of duty and/or driving regardless.The important thing is that 12 on 12 off with no seperate driving time limits is simpler and more flexible while allowing more productivety in the form of drivers not running out of driving time long before the day is over.While also stopping the situation of drivers doing too many hours on duty between daily rest periods.IE a win win situation for all concerned.
Winseer:
Why is everyone so keen to work more hours for less, rather than see empoyers forced to pay more for a limited number of hours that cannot be exceeded upon pain of death?
:
Because this is what we are always up against, you know the type, the kind of knobhead who thinks that his£650 including his nights out is a good amount for a wage, ( which it is)… but not if he is ignoring the excessive amount of hours he is working at a flat rate to achieve it.
The type that would do 7 days x15hours for next to ■■■■ all in his V8 Topliner, for the “privelige” 
of driving …and polishing it.
As for Boris, rest assured he doesn’t give a flying ■■■■ about us, he would prefer it if we were ALL like the type I have just been on about.
UKIP want to leave the EU to remove red tape from business, that means less regs for those running businesses to abide by. The chances of getting a reduction in hours from these people probably zero.
As for more time to find a parking place. All that will happen is that planners will plan routes to use the full driving hours allowed. So when it goes wrong you’ll still be struggling for somewhere to park. Especially as the UK is woeful for truck parking compared to many parts of Europe.
Winseer:
Carryfast:
Juddian:
He’s just another europhile politician, telling people what they want to hear, making noises like Cameron about things he has no control over whatsoever because we no longer make our own laws.They’d sell their own grannies for votes.
Or in other words lying to try to limit the swing to UKIP in order to try to keep the Cons together as a credible political Party.Rather than allow nature to take it’s course in the form of the real political choice at the election of an anti EU Conservative and UKIP alliance v a LabLibDem one and what remains of the Europhile Cons standing as a new Federalist Conservative Party so the electorate know exactly who and what they are actually voting for.
Basically, that’s EXACTLY what the next election is the choice of… Ukip & Tory vs Labour and Cleggy trying to bat for the other team this time… I wonder if Milliband would just be as daft as to drink poison on demand which is what accepting clegg into a coalition would represent… Even Cleggy realised in 2010 that a LibLab pact would HAVE to be “without Gordon Brown”, thus the “coalition of losers” didn’t even get off the ground… They didn’t have enough seats between them anyway.
The real issue for all concerned is sorting the wheat from the chaff in the form of splitting the anti EU faction of the Conservatives to ally with UKIP and the pro EU faction in the form of a new Federalist Conservative Party.Anything short of the Cons doing that before the election is as usual and typically just taking the electorate for mugs by pretending to be anti EU.While in most cases they are actually an even worst bunch of federalist liars than the LibDems.Which explains how they’ve managed to hold such an alliance together for it’s full term.
muckles:
UKIP want to leave the EU to remove red tape from business, that means less regs for those running businesses to abide by. The chances of getting a reduction in hours from these people probably zero.As for more time to find a parking place. All that will happen is that planners will plan routes to use the full driving hours allowed. So when it goes wrong you’ll still be struggling for somewhere to park. Especially as the UK is woeful for truck parking compared to many parts of Europe.
There’s probably more advantages in limiting the overall day to 12 hours from 15 and at least providing the flexibility and simplicity of not seperating driving and duty time limits than disadvantages in employers trying to exploit driving time to the max possible.IE in that regard there’s nothing to lose only gain in more productivety and more daily rest time.
Left hand down!:
merc0447:
Boris does not give a hee haw about anyone except Boris.That sums up this thread in one.
Spot on, I think he’s a possibly dangerous man who is very clever. Hes cultivated this cuddly buffoon image, but make no mistake hes not. Hes a cold calculation politician that only done things to further his own self interests
If he wants to help the builders, then scrap these “considerate contractor” rules which wont allow sites to work outside of 8am and after 5pm. I see loads of tippers hanging around London trading estates, waiting until the sites open.
Also, if all those banksmen on every corner near a Crossrail site were told to grab a shovel, the job might get done a bit quicker, instead of dossing around smoking, holding their two way radios trying to look important.
The problem of having 2 drivers cover 24 hours in the truck is that if one of them gets back late, breaks down, or whatever - the other one is buggered.
Attempts to make too efficient use of a truck’s time will always result in long-term ruin for the operator. This is why most firms elect to make more efficient use of a DRIVERS time - eg. get him to be in the truck for 24 hours, but only pay him for 8-12 of it on duty, and a measly £25 for the remaining time out of the 24 hour period.
As far as I’m concerned - if I’m out of my house at work for 24 hours - I expect 24 hours pay, albeit less breaks or whatever. In other words, I would only be interested in tramping IF it was say, 3x15 hour shifts ie across 4 days pay with 3 nights out. Thus, you only spend 27 hours out of 96 “away from your house” in a stood-down unpaid mode. This is marginally made up for by the night out money plus what you save in not having to commute 4 times a week.
This isn’t as daft as it sounds - is it? 
I stand by my reasoning of THREE drivers per one truck around the clock.
Driver (A) starts at say, 6am, gets back @ 3pm, books off @ 4pm. Driver (B) starts at 2pm, doesn’t leave the yard until just after 3pm when (A) brings the truck back. He’ll get back normally @ 11pm in time for (C) who started at 10pm to take it over, who’ll in turn be out until 7am coming back to find (A) waiting for him.
…Of course - this only works when you’re only doing runs not involving more than 6 hours a day driving, ideally of a domestic locale - thus reducing the risk of “getting back late”.
If anyone has a problem with the truck, there’s room at both ends of each duty to “get it looked at”. The “one size fits all” 6 hour run-outs also mean that the trucks in the yard are fully interchangeable. You won’t have this “I need the DAF because I’m going to Wales” or “I’m on Nights, so the Axor will do” type arguments…
switchlogic:
Left hand down!:
merc0447:
Boris does not give a hee haw about anyone except Boris.That sums up this thread in one.
Spot on, I think he’s a possibly dangerous man who is very clever. Hes cultivated this cuddly buffoon image, but make no mistake hes not. Hes a cold calculation politician that only done things to further his own self interests
What are his self-interests exactly?
Do robots dream of electric sheep?
When you’ve already got pots of money, are not a big hit with the girls, and already live in a nice house etc. What possible ambitions can a 50 year old have that have not already been achieved by being Mayor of London - which I understand is more lucrative personally than “being an MP” - even now! 
Silver_Surfer:
http://www.commercialmotor.com/latest-news/boris-johnson-slams-drivers-hours-rulesJesus, i might actually vote for this guy, I like the cut of his Jib.
I’d vote for reducing the amount of hours we can legally work, voting for more is like turkeys voting for Christmas
What Boris is really after is removing the need for drivers to have to stop for a rest or a break in London.
All he cares about is London
and Boris.
I’d support his proposal to ban goods vehicles outright from London…
I look forward to the time someone offers me £15ph to drive a puddle jumper - because of the shortage of goods in the capital that “no trucks” would cause!
…Just because London would need ten times the number of VANS to carry all the goods necassary into town - Where’s “ten times the number of drivers” - espcially at £7.50ph - that are going to rush forward to doing this job…?
…I mean now the ‘pick up and abuse a girlie’ perk loophole is on the verge of being closed and all…
It would seem that Boris also cares about out-of-town Londoners a lot too - look in any “minicab” sporting the TFL sticker on the back… The lack of whites would suggest that even our Eastern European gastarbeiter won’t stoop so low as to be a self-employed minicab driver for instance… 
switchlogic:
Spot on, I think he’s a possibly dangerous man who is very clever. Hes cultivated this cuddly buffoon image, but make no mistake hes not. Hes a cold calculation politician that only done things to further his own self interests
This is a common trait amongst all politicians from all parties.
Switchlogic is quite correct about Boris. I saw him at an electric vehicle launch at the Mansion House a few weeks ago and watched how he behaves for a good 20 minutes. The blundering buffoon act is exactly that, an act. An exceptionally good one, I’ll give him that, but an act non the less. He is an intelligent man and well in demand for his journalistic talents to the tune of several hundred thousand quid a year according to the Evening Standard. Underestimate him at your peril.
I prefer james hookhams reply,what he says is true about boris,i used to like boris until he started slating hgv drivers over these deaths in the last year,he basically blamed hgvs for the deaths and the cyclists were whiter than white,even though the cyclists paid the ultimate price for going through on the inside of the hgvs