black watch

[kate_hasler]

runaroundtel:
Pat… as much as I would like to think that most people in the U.S. do not want to continue with the INVASION of Iran… fact is they voted Bush back in … and the oil is still flooding out of them there fields!

Kitkat… I agree… I send out my sympathy to anyone who has lost a loved one in any conflict. That is why we have a POPPY DAY. We remember. In past conflicts, we have not seen the objective of that conflict any more than remembering those who died in order to preserve freedom.
The diifference between this conflict, and previous noted ‘wars’ is that this is not about freedom or civil rights. It is about ensuring that a valuable commodity (oil) is spoils from war from war!

Bush was voted back in… but his election really had less to do with Iraq and people’s opinion of that invasion than the international community would like to think. Months ago, research told the republican party that it was going to lose the election, and that the majority of American citizens did not agree with or condone the continued occupation of Iraq. In order to assure a republican win, Bush and his advisors convinced republican political leaders in swing voting states to adopt and add a referendum on homosexual marriage/unions. This has a been a very hot topic here since Vermont became the first state to legalize these unions. Since the states that approve of gay marriage have a democratic majority, and the swing states were questionable, this assured that republican fundamentalist Christians who were ambivalent to the war and probably wouldn’t have voted, did in fact come out to vote,… and would vote republican… it had a direct effect on the electoral college of 11 states, and John Kerry lost by one 1 state. When exit polls were completed, terrorism was actually 3rd on the list of important issues… the first was Moral Issues…or gay marriage, the second was the economy. Democrats voted based on the economy and the war… republicans voted based on gay marriage and the war. There were just more republicans against gay marriage than there were democrats concerned with the economy.

I would like to think that the war in Iraq had more to do with Saddam Hussein and his actions than it did oil, but the fact is that the US government has an oil agenda…as an American it disgusts me, but I don’t think anyone can logically dispute it. That is why the American government has such a strong alliance with Israel. If the US supported and encouraged peace in the middle east it would have no reason to occupy the region and would lose its hold on the oil industry there. Thats not brain surgery. It’s this alliance with Israel that has caused the middle east to hate the US. In the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, its the Israeli’s who are in the wrong… pull out of the middle east and the terrorism toward the US would stop, and the US would have a stronger alliance with these oil producing countries that it’s trying to bully… its just that simple. I can’t help but wonder why some people argue that fact when its so obvious. And having a president with such strong family connections to the oil business just makes that agenda more apparent.

I’m not sure which one of you guys made the comment, but someone said that the US didn’t have much of a choice… either vote for Bush… or John Kerry “who?”… well… the British people may have no idea who John Kerry is, but the American people do. He’s been a popular & distinguished senator for many years from Massachusetts. And Massachusetts is one of the states that had voted to legalize gay marriage. Even though Kerry is a national representative and has no connection with the legislation of state law, some people are simply ignorant and uneducated regarding the division of state and federal government. And the fact that he’s from Massachussetts was used to fuel the “moral issues” debate among the fundamentalist Christians, and further increased the republican vote.

[ralliesport]

My third straight post sorry

Isnt it funny how things go full circle. We start with basic weapons, bows arrows etc…, develop guns, then battleships, aircraft, nuclear and so on and so forth. Now we are back to near where we started from. There is no standing armies to fight no battleships to sink, nothing we have in out arsenal can bring theres terrorists to bare.

The americans have totally the wrong grasp on this war, as they did in Vietnam. We cant fight these enemies with massing our armies against them, we just make ourself a target. We need to form regiments like the SAS which did fight against these people and there type of tactics on oman and malaya. and won comprehensively

[Lasurazes]

ralliesport:

Mal:

If this war is as many people have suggested a war for oil and you say the Americans are controlling the oil fields of Iraq then why is oil continuing to escalate in price?..

Jammy, as you may well know oil is bought and paid for in $U.S. (yes, even in Iraq since after the invasion) What do you reckon? Dont take a genius really does it, every dollar has to be purchased as no other currency will be accepted, and from where will these US dollars come ultimately? The power of the petro-dollar is considerable, and the U.S. obviously does not want to lose that power. And anyway who said it was for cheap oil, big oil makes more dollar when prices are high. It is the control of the oil flow and the whole region, and what currency oil is bought and sold in, not just aquiring the crude, that would have been cheaper to buy, so, a short term gain for all of dubya’s friends in expensive crude, and a long term gain for US interests via stable supply and regional ■■■■■■■■■■ if the invasion succeeds. That aint rocket science.

But there are more US$ outside the US than inside

Hiya Rallie, heres what a former US senator has to say on the subject. This is a few paragraphs, the complete article is available here:
http://fergusonreport.myonlinepublication.com/article.asp?pop_id=161&article_id=69

A New American Century? Not!
By Senator Tim Ferguson. Posted 1/19/2004 10:40:00 PM

Iraq is really the battlefield for the hidden Euro-Dollar war…a war that was inevitable given the loss of the dollar’s purchasing power worldwide.

Despite the apparent swift U.S. military occupation in Iraq, the U.S. dollar has yet to benefit as a safe haven currency. This is an unexpected development, as many currency traders had expected the dollar to strengthen on the news of a U.S. presence. Capital is flowing out of the dollar, largely into the Euro. Many are beginning to ask whether the objective situation of the U.S. economy is far worse than the stock market would suggest. The future of the dollar is far from a minor issue of interest only to banks or currency traders. It stands at the heart of Pax Americana, or as it is called, The American Century, the system of arrangements on which America’s role in the world rests.

Yet, even as the dollar is steadily dropping against the Euro, Washington appears to be deliberately worsening the dollar fall in public comments. What is taking place is a power game of the highest geopolitical significance, the most fateful perhaps, since the emergence of the United States in 1945 as the world’s leading economic power.

The coalition of interests which converged on war against Iraq as a strategic necessity for the United States, included not only the vocal and highly visible neo-conservative hawks around Defense Secretary Rumsfeld and his deputy, Paul Wolfowitz. It also included powerful permanent interests, on whose global role American economic influence depends, such as the influential energy sector around Halliburton, Exxon Mobil, Chevron Texaco and other giant multinationals. It also included the huge American defense industry interests around Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, Raytheon, Northrup-Grumman and others. The issue for these giant defense and energy conglomerates is not a few fat contracts from the Pentagon to rebuild Iraqi oil facilities and line the pockets of ■■■■ Cheney or others. It is a game for the very continuance of American power in the coming decades of the new century. That is not to say that profits are [not] made in the process, but it is purely a byproduct of the global strategic issue.

In this power game, least understood is the role of preserving the dollar as the world reserve currency, as a major driving factor contributing to Washington’s power calculus over Iraq in the past months. American ■■■■■■■■■■ in the world ultimately rests on two pillars – its overwhelming military superiority, especially on the seas; and its control of world economic flows through the role of the dollar as the world’s reserve currency. More and more it is clear that the Iraq war was more about preserving the second pillar – the dollar role – than the first, the military. In the dollar role, oil is a strategic factor.

[wiretwister]

scania king kev:
… Mr Arafat is on his death bed, I hope that guy left a diary, or even better an autobiography!!

Kev

Yeah???I wonder if would contain mention of his shafting the office of President of the USA, because thats what he did to Clinton. “We’ll go along with your peace plan Mr President. Begin the interfata (sp) my terrorist bretheren”

Arafat can’t die soon enough. He is responsible for as many, if not more, civilian deaths than Saddam.

[wiretwister]

Kate Hasler:
…American people, in general, love the British… its really too bad that the sentiment isn’t reciprocated and that the majority of British people are unable to separate their hatred of US politics from their hatred of American people. It’s something that I’ve tried not to take personally, but it’s difficult not to.

On our last trip to the UK Patrick and I sat in a pub talking. The group of people at the table behind us heard my accent, and rudely started making anti-American comments, not just about the government, but about the people in general… and did it purposely so that I could overhear them. It was an ignorant and rude thing to do. Those people do not know me, they have no idea what type of person I am, but felt they could judge based solely on my accent. It doesn’t exactly make me want to hop a plane back over for another a dose. Patrick has lived here almost 5 years now has never personally met anyone who was overtly rude just because he’s British.

I used to love coming to this site… but when I constantly see anti-American comments, many of which have very little basis in fact, and feel the hatred directed toward the US,… its very difficult to continue. You would never visit the trucknet USA site and find any types of comments like this about the British. It would seem that the citizens of allied countries would in fact be allies. I guess thats too much to expect from the British.

Kate I agree with you, in part, those who made those comments were particularly rude. It is not, IMHO, in any way typical of how the British regard Americans. The same sort of thing also goes on within the UK. Go to some parts of Wales and once your English accent is heard you will find some will drop from speaking English to Welsh. That is also rude. Never had that problem during any of my visits to the US, in fact it’s quite the reverse. There is a warmth of welcome that is country wide (well FLA, Vegas, NY, PA, MI ) and while you could bet a bit cynical with the “have a nice day” It probably says more about the naturally suspicious we Brits are

BTW my son is married to a lovely American lady so I may be just a little biased.

[wiretwister]

kitkat:
…and i also think blair won’t be re-elected during the next elections.

So who would be Prime Minister after the next election KK? In Australia John Howard has just been re-elected, Dubya has just been re-elected in the US with the highest vote ever recorded. The alternatives in the UK lets have a look.

The Conservatives with Howard at the helm? I don’t think so if the war in Iraq is such a big issue as he supported that war and was directly involved with the introduction of the poll tax (the council tax protests may have been overlooked me thinks). Maybe Charles Kennedy with his promise to raise taxes and even closer ties with Europe? Unlikely.

Blair may be unpopular in some quarters but he is still the least worst option for this country.

[jammymutt]

Wiretwister:
The Conservatives with Howard at the helm? I don’t think so if the war in Iraq is such a big issue as he supported that war and was directly involved with the introduction of the poll tax (the council tax protests may have been overlooked me thinks). Maybe Charles Kennedy with his promise to raise taxes and even closer ties with Europe? Unlikely.

Blair may be unpopular in some quarters but he is still the least worst option for this country.

Having been a Conservative voter most of my life , when its time to vote UKIP will be getting my vote, i can see them being the 3rd if not the 2nd party in Britain VERY soon.

[kitkat]

You would never visit the trucknet USA site and find any types of comments like this about the British.

We also have the insults from the “Limey Press” as well… The Daily
Mirror: “How can 59,054,087 people be so dumb” and other nonsense like this. Hmmph, as if the Brits are that smart… when you consider most of them haven’t even mastered brushing and flossing, that alone puts them on the same level as most truckers… hardly rocket scientists.

quoted from trucknetusa

[tdriver]

Just thought I’d throw my tuppence worth in. I served twenty years in the army and was always taught that the British Army has three reasons for being:-

1. To defend the homeland.

2. To reinforce government policy abroad.

3. To provide an alternative government if necessary.

Soldiers go to war because they are told to, many times during my service I heard soldiers bemoaning the fact that they were never allowed to do their job. We should never forget that because these brave lads are willing to stand up and be counted we can sit here and moan to our hearts content without fear of oppression. If you want to have a go at the government you should write to your MPs about the disgraceful quality of soldiers equipment and the fact that the Forces are to be cut yet again meaning longer active service tours and more of them

[kate_hasler]

kitkat:
You would never visit the trucknet USA site and find any types of comments like this about the British.

We also have the insults from the “Limey Press” as well… The Daily
Mirror: “How can 59,054,087 people be so dumb” and other nonsense like this. Hmmph, as if the Brits are that smart… when you consider most of them haven’t even mastered brushing and flossing, that alone puts them on the same level as most truckers… hardly rocket scientists.

quoted from trucknetusa

If your going to quote trucknet usa, then give the proper quote…and give the thread. When I read it for myself, I’ll believe it. Obviously, from what you’ve typed here, the British press insulted the US, right? Again, the British insulting us… and your surprised that someone took offense to it and made a defensive or retaliatory comment…■■? (but since you’ve failed to properly reference your post there is no way to know what context the statement was made in…or if this is even a legitimate quote and you’ll have to forgive me for not taking your word for it )

[kitkat]

kate i ain’t going to fall out with you or anyone over views expressed on tn.the term yank was not aimed at you as derogatory or as an insult in any shape size or form.obviously this word is a word that upsets you and others connected to america through either being married to an american lass or live out there themselves,so for this i appologise to you and anyone else that it has offended unreservedly.i am scottish kate through and through and over the years whilst in the forces and based in country’s all over the world i have worked along side different people from different countries,people from wales,ireland,england,germany,holland,belguim,france,and yes americans.i spent 7months with the 7th u.s. marine corp and during my time with every one of these people i have been known as jock.the marines used to say ah your scotch,no i’m scottish i ain’t a bottle of whiskey.i take it with a pinch of salt kate.they did not mean any harm by it and i knew this and to say that some people ain’t spent time with people from america apart from trips to florida well kate i ain’t one of them.these guys and lassies relied on me and the rest of us to do our job right as did we rely on them to do theirs as each others life’s depended on it.

as for the world trade center,yes this is a world issue and we where all affected by it maybe not personnelly but we all felt a sence of disbelief that something like this could happen to our closest allies.but i’m a firm believer if something happens in another country then let that country sort it out themselves.if you’s required the british troops to travel to america to help you’s tighten the security and fight in combat in the states then i’d be 100% behind them no questions asked,but to ask our troops and other’s to go to iraq and fight a war that did not need to happen,well is beyond me.

i know as you said that people in the states and uk have protested against the war in iraq,and that it has fallen on deaf ears.if nobody protest or make’s their feelings known then how do we get our voice across.the american people had the perfect oppertunity to remove this man bush from goverment,but in your post earlier it was obvious that bush had won from the start and that the 49million u.s. dollars that kerry spent on his campaign was money that has been taken away from the american people which surely is wrong.i just hope that the british people vote blair and his other liars out,as i want someone in there that tells you and i the truth and not put peoples lifes at risk for the sake of a lie.

you said in one of your posts earlier that if we went onto trucknet usa that we would not find any remarks like this on there,well kate below is the link to such thread as you requested.it ain’t posted to have a dig at anyone kate,it’s put up to let you see that names like brit and limey and how some people in america think about us in the uk.personnelly i don’t really care what anyone from around the country think about us or what they say as that is their views kate and i can’t stop their views,they are entitled to them the same as you and i.

unless it’s a personel attack on me,you or anyone then that’s when i’d tell them straight and i would not care if he/she got offended by it.so kate please don’t take the word (yank) as an attack it is a term used world wide the same as jock.but to stop the rift and the upset to you and pat and the rest on tn i will refrain from using that word in any of my posts.once again i’m sorry.

roundtable.truck.net/viewtopic.php?t=44046

[kate_hasler]

I read the thread you posted kitkat. And I have to say that I’m shocked by some of the statements made. But I also have a point I’d like to make. I’ve been to trucknet USA many many times, though I rarely post there. I have never seen anything remotely negative about the British until this. That thread was started Thursday of this week, 2 days ago… By Allikat… who is British. It was followed by some defensive comments in response… some very ignorant comments, but still defensive. I’m not sure of her motives for posting the article she chose, and it doesn’t really matter. Whether intended or not, it only fuels animosity and puts Americans in a position where they feel they need to defend themselves, much like I felt I had to here… and it really shouldn’t be necessary. The problem arises when people have no knowledgable or educated defense to make, and resort to insults and negativity. The 2 or 3 negative comments about the British that were posted on this thread in the last couple of days are not the opinions of any Americans I know… and I highly doubt there would have been any negative comments at all had the original article not been posted. Allikats reasons may have been innocent, and the responses unexpected, but it seems as though some people enjoy starting something, then sitting back and watching the crap fly without making any further useful comments. I don’t know why people get such pleasure out that… there’s enough crap in the world already.

I did feel an overwhelming need to defend the British after reading that post (though I resisted it). And probably for the same reasons Patrick felt the need to defend Americans here. When you live with someone from another country, adopt their nationality, family, friends, and merge your language, traditions, and general way of life together, you lose the notion of belonging to only one country. I’m no longer stictly American… and Patrick is no longer strictly British. Maybe thats why these comments bother us so much… I guess we’ll have to grow some thicker skin. I will say that these people seem to be about the most ignorant types of Americans you could ever hope to find. Why is it that people who seem to have the smallest IQ’s have the biggest mouths?

I appreciate your comments kitkat… and thank you for your consideration. As I said before,… the word ‘yank’, when used in humor or in a lighthearted way is not offensive, but there are other very negative and derrogatory uses of the word, which have been overly displayed around here lately… and have been an ongoing and recurrent theme since I joined. And FYI, I’ve never heard the word “jock” in reference to a scottish person… as you said, we generally just abbreviate Scottish to “Scot”… In the US, a “jock” is an avid sportsman… and is nowhere near derrogatory.

[wheel_nut]

Dont forget the Black Watch in all this bickering

2 nations seperated by a common language

There are lots of terms used between the big divide of water that may or may not upset people. Its an internet forum that attracts people from all over the world.

Some welsh people dont like being called Taffy, even if they live near the river Taff.

Some Irish people dont like being called Paddy, I am English, I am not a Brit

Jocks dont like being called sweaty socks. It all depends on the way the terms are used. If the term Yank was used in an abusive way, that is wrong! Maybe it should be put into the auto censor so in future it comes up as [zb]

Dont forget the language we use is a world apart

Im going outside to sit on my fanny and have a ■■■

[daxi]

True wheel Nut. But I also don’t think America knows just how unliked & distrusted it is, even by its so called friends.
Also this is Truck Net UK & a forum where UK drivers can express their views, sure some views may be not be to everyones / anyones taste, but this is a free speech forum within certain limits & if Americans do not like free speech then perhaps there are better ways of making that point than falling back on that “I’m losing this argument” defence of racism.

[kitkat]

kate, your married to an english lad and you ain’t heard the word jock i bet if you ask pat he’s had at (sometime in his life) a bit of a laugh and a joke with scottish drivers who the english generally call us jocks or skirt wearers (kilt) due to our national dress.over the years travelling the world with the forces kate i have had to put up with ignorance from people who as you and pat have said b4 people who have never stepped across the border to scotland/america and feel that they have the devine right to slander my/your nationality.over the years you grow to ignore them as the iq level ain’t to high,but i have made many a freind from all over the uk/world and very nice people they are too.although as you say that the opinion of some of your fellow countrymen/woman ain’t the views of your freinds and people you talk too on a daily bases,you have to accept that people from america have different views and different opinions of people from different countries,it don’t make you or them wrong.it’s just their personnel views kate and they are allowed that view.nothing you or i say will stop their views so the best way is to state your view and leave it at that.i don’t think that allikat would have meant anything by putting this article up on tn usa,as over my time with tn i can’t think of a bad post come from allikat.she has moved to america to work on the harvest season so i wouldn’t think she’d want to stir up trouble in her adopted homeland at the moment.i have never met allikat kate,but as i said i know she is as genuine as they come.

as you have said already kate,yourself and pat need to learn not to take it to heart and maybe adopt thicker skin,i hope that you and pat will continue to post and join in on the forums as your views and opinions are read with interest,we might not agree on things kate but hey that’s life,you and pat would have had disagreements over certain things in your life it’s the same on here.so please don’t disappear as you’s are valued members and the members do appreciate your thoughts.please take care and have a nice day

[jammymutt]

daxi:
True wheel Nut. But I also don’t think America knows just how unliked & distrusted it is, even by its so called friends.
Also this is Truck Net UK & a forum where UK drivers can express their views, sure some views may be not be to everyones / anyones taste, but this is a free speech forum within certain limits & if Americans do not like free speech then perhaps there are better ways of making that point than falling back on that “I’m losing this argument” defence of racism.

I,m also sure that a LOT of Americans know that A LOT of us British have a high regard for them and trust them in every way we are able to , and they also know that as a great ally they can rely on us and trust us to be there in any situation whether military or political.

[daxi]

jammymutt:
they also know that as a great ally they can rely on us and trust us to be there in any situation whether military or political.

Yes but friends & allies who prove to be more dangerous to us than than the enemy all too often.
In the first Iraq conflict they killed more british soldiers than the enemy & with friends like that who needs an enemy.
I have nothing at all against americans, I was bought up in an area over run by them & thus grew up with many american friends.
I just don’t trust them as a nation.

[ladytrucker679]

My prayers once again go to Black watch and tha AMERICAN field hospital that are caring for the two casualties of today’s suicide bomber and sustained serious injuries to their lower limbs. They will be transfered to a military hospital in Germany tomorrow.

[repton]

Wheel Nut:
I am English, I am not a Brit

What does it say next to “nationality” on your passport then? I bet it isn’t “English”.

Paul
(with his big wooden spoon, stirring away)

[wheel_nut]

repton:

Wheel Nut:
I am English, I am not a Brit

What does it say next to “nationality” on your passport then? I bet it isn’t “English”.

Paul
(with his big wooden spoon, stirring away)

It doesnt say Brit either

While this post is still about our soldiers and another conflict away from here

India have tested■■? a nuclear missile launched from a ship yesterday in the Indian Ocean