but if the muslims want to let people like saddam and bin ladden run their lives,then that is not our problem
I hardly think they had a choice Jim, In the same way that the poles and the jews chose to be ruled by Hitler.
That was nothing to do with us either.
This is not a war against muslims, it is a fight against dictators and terrorists
TC:
Mal
My point was we become drivers we accept the risk(which is the worst in europe) as for deaths on the road!We become killers(is that the point of the army?) sometimes we all dont win!
we are not trained as killers ian,they are but does that mean that they have to because blair opens his mouth and not only lies to the parliment but lies to the most important people ,yes the public.if this war was justified ian ,then i would not be typing here.but blair has no justification for keeping our troops there.
Ian I appreciate the point you are making M8, but, it is just so different it is not a reasonable comparison, thats the point Im making.
War costs us all, costs us a packet financially, and for them sent to fight, it costs them everything, heart and soul. Imagine how some of them feel, when they know full well the pretext that they are in a foriegn land, being killed, and killing is based on a reason that is a out and out lie?
We were not invaded, we were not under threat, there needed to be a reason to get this gig past the parlimaent, and that reason was false. We as lorry drivers drive where we want, when we want, and for whatever reason we want, there simply aint a valid comparison with whats happening with the armed forces, which we pay for, and are engaged in an illegal war, waging aggressive war hung the ■■■■’s at nuremberg, that was the charge, and we are waging aggressive war against Iraq!
The point of the army is to defend the country, there was no threat to the country, so they have been sold up the river by cowards like Blair and Hoon that do not have to suffer, and will not pay the price.
Wheel Nut:
This is not a war against muslims, it is a fight against dictators and terrorists
Sincere question Malc, do you honestly believe that if Iraq was a central African country dirt poor and had no oil or strategic value, the same noble sentiments would have been in play?
Wheel Nut:
but if the muslims want to let people like saddam and bin ladden run their lives,then that is not our problem
I hardly think they had a choice Jim, In the same way that the poles and the jews chose to be ruled by Hitler.
That was nothing to do with us either.
This is not a war against muslims, it is a fight against dictators and terrorists
true malc,but this could have been over during the 1st gulf war mate,if bush and major had let the sas take saddam out when they had the chance,but they thought that talking to these men would solve the problem.but again it’s came back and bit them on the arse.
the majority of muslims are descent living law abiding people,but if you attack their country then they get a bit p’d off,as would you,but there are more of them and if they put their minds to it then they could defeat the americans,british put together.not a problem.
kitkat:
Bully:
People moan about the price of petrol and diesel everyday…so when someone does something about it…they still moan! you cant have your cake and eat it.Bully
wot’s the word oh yes bulls
don’t tell me that you think bush sent his troops out there for the price of petrol
pmsl at you
Yes he did! OIL!!! makes petrol…and diesel…do you know how much money goverments around the world make on taxation on these?? PMSL at you!!! They call it BLACK GOLD! for a damm good reason.
Bully
Can I ask you a question Bully? Im taking it from your points that you think it’s ok to go to war and kill for oil? Or am I way off?
kitkat:
Wheel Nut:
but if the muslims want to let people like saddam and bin ladden run their lives,then that is not our problem
I hardly think they had a choice Jim, In the same way that the poles and the jews chose to be ruled by Hitler.
That was nothing to do with us either.
This is not a war against muslims, it is a fight against dictators and terrorists
true malc,but this could have been over during the 1st gulf war mate,if bush and major had let the sas take saddam out when they had the chance,but they thought that talking to these men would solve the problem.but again it’s came back and bit them on the arse.
the majority of muslims are descent living law abiding people,but if you attack their country then they get a bit p’d off,as would you,but there are more of them and if they put their minds to it then they could defeat the americans,british put together.not a problem.
yeah right! lol…I want what kitkat is smoking 
Bully
I will have to reply to them in reverse.
I think that the first gulf war should have carried on and removed saddam, instead of listening to public pressure and bringing troops home.
Mal. I dont doubt that the oil has put much more importance on this conflict, but Britain and the US are active in many little central african countries using soldiers as peacekeepers or advisors.
It could be said that Saddam contained all this trouble and the million odd people he killed deserved it for not toeing the line. It hardly makes it right.
We probably will end up sending more troops out to the middle east, but its not new! My uncle was out there 40 years ago with the British Army and a good friend who I was with last week was telling me about his time in the Gulf in the sixties.
There isnt an easy answer, but we cannot just leave them to their own devices now,
Mal:
Can I ask you a question Bully? Im taking it from your points that you think it’s ok to go to war and kill for oil? Or am I way off?
No! to me and you its not ok but to goverments around the world then the answer is yes…weapons of mass destruction was the excuse they used to go in there…but OIL is what they wanted…we all know that?
Bully
Bully:
kitkat:
Bully:
People moan about the price of petrol and diesel everyday…so when someone does something about it…they still moan! you cant have your cake and eat it.Bully
wot’s the word oh yes bulls
don’t tell me that you think bush sent his troops out there for the price of petrol
Yes he did! OIL!!! makes petrol…and diesel…do you know how much money goverments around the world make on taxation on these?? PMSL at you!!! They call it BLACK GOLD! for a damm good reason.
Bully
so the lies that bush and blair told about weapons of mass destruction had nothing to do with it then bully
Wheel Nut:
Mal. I dont doubt that the oil has put much more importance on this conflict, but Britain and the US are active in many little central african countries using soldiers as peacekeepers or advisors.
They are indeed, and under the auspices of the UN. This case however is totally different, and we are part of a pre-emptive strike that was illegal according to international law started under lies for justification, there is no comparison.
We all have our opinion however Malc, and ours cleraly differ, in my book 2 wrongs dont make a right, I dont want the UK to keep footing the bill in ruined and lost lives, and horrendous expense, and worse still the Iraqi’s living in hell to try and make that lie truth.
Bully:
Mal:
Can I ask you a question Bully? Im taking it from your points that you think it’s ok to go to war and kill for oil? Or am I way off?No! to me and you its not ok but to goverments around the world then the answer is yes…weapons of mass destruction was the excuse they used to go in there…but OIL is what they wanted…we all know that?
Bully
do you honestly believe that the american and british people would stand for all the troops being sent out there just because bush wanted more control of the oil fields bully,oh and don’t treat me as if i’m stupid mate i know wot makes petrol and diesel
Thanks for the clarification Bully, I understand where youre coming from now, and I agree, they do what they want and try to keep us like the rhubarb!
Ladytrucker:
Bully is right, sift through the flannel and propoganda and all the evidence suggests that this war is about control of the oil fields.
The whole situation has been manufactured.
My thought’s and prayers go to Black watch and their family’s.
Thats an important point LT, control. It would have cost a lot less to have bought all of Iraq’s oil, (though it would have had to be in euro’s) than to go to war for it. But, it’s the control of the region, and the control of the currency oil is bought and sold in which is the name of the game.
THE BIG PICTURE!!!
Hussain stays in power and dictates to the world what it has to pay for oil
instead of paying $50.00 hussain wants $100.00 a barrel
So one minute your paying 90p a liter…then it goes up to 1.80 a liter…food etc goes up to cover transportation costs but your wages stays the same…taxation on that 1.80 goes up but your wages stays the same…it dont take an expert to see whats going on.
Bully
ok bully i can understand your point there.but my point is this and it’s simple why does he and blair need to send thousands of troops to fight for oil if this is the case can he not negoticate with people or does he always need to resort to we’re america and you’ll do as we say or we’ll force you
kitkat:
Bully:
Mal:
Can I ask you a question Bully? Im taking it from your points that you think it’s ok to go to war and kill for oil? Or am I way off?No! to me and you its not ok but to goverments around the world then the answer is yes…weapons of mass destruction was the excuse they used to go in there…but OIL is what they wanted…we all know that?
Bully
do you honestly believe that the american and british people would stand for all the troops being sent out there just because bush wanted more control of the oil fields bully,oh and don’t treat me as if i’m stupid mate i know wot makes petrol and diesel
YES I do…thats why Bush has just won a election for another 4 years…this is why Blair will be relected next year.
OK so why the hell are they out there then■■? Wars of today are fought for money…to help with the world’s economy… to keep things balanced and thats it. A country comes along & trys to throw a spanner into world order and hes going bitten.
Bully
Theres another thing as well Bully, it wouldnt have been any amount of $ per barrel, Saddam converted to the euro (I personally believe thats when his credentials ran out with the US) and you dont need to be a genius to see why the US didnt want that.
All oil around the globe is bought and sold in $ apart from Iraq (now back to $) also Iran has flirted with it, North Korea and Venezuela, Putin is making noises about that but sitting on the fence somewhat. The US deficit, currently running at a massive ammount I think around 6-7 trillion is helped mightily by revenues from the oil trade. Were it to have gone euro, things for the US economy would have been bad.
Bully:
YES I do…thats why Bush has just won a election for another 4 years…this is why Blair will be relected next year.
OK so why the hell are they out there then■■? Wars of today are fought for money…to help with the world’s economy… to keep things balanced and thats it. A country comes along & trys to throw a spanner into world order and hes going bitten.Bully
Amen, details apart, thats about the truth of it, but they would never come clean to the public.