Is not reasonable to imagine that when first looking from the cars point of view the biker wasn’t in site due to the distance between them, but then due to extreme speed the biker obviously made up ground very quickly. Unfortunately at that point the car had already commenced their turn.
Boo9729:
Is not reasonable to imagine that when first looking from the cars point of view the biker wasn’t in site due to the distance between them, but then due to extreme speed the biker obviously made up ground very quickly. Unfortunately at that point the car had already commenced their turn.
At 97mph, he’d have been covering around 43 metres per second. So 5 seconds earlier he’d have not even been 225 metres further away. If a driver can’t see 225 metres, then they shouldn’t be behind the wheel.
The main thing that gets me, 1st they say they didn’t see the bike, then they also didn’t see the car behind it. But also, they took no evasive action, which supports their not seeing the bike.
I still can’t get over how lenient the punishment was.
waynedl:
Boo9729:
Is not reasonable to imagine that when first looking from the cars point of view the biker wasn’t in site due to the distance between them, but then due to extreme speed the biker obviously made up ground very quickly. Unfortunately at that point the car had already commenced their turn.At 97mph, he’d have been covering around 43 metres per second. So 5 seconds earlier he’d have not even been 225 metres further away. If a driver can’t see 225 metres, then they shouldn’t be behind the wheel.
The main thing that gets me, 1st they say they didn’t see the bike, then they also didn’t see the car behind it. But also, they took no evasive action, which supports their not seeing the bike.
I still can’t get over how lenient the punishment was.
I agree with what you say about distance in this story, however there are likely to be circumstances when a car or bike or hgv is at a point/distance where you can’t see them and so proceed with a manouve only to then have a speeding vehicle/bike even pedestrian suddenly appear !!
I do agree the punishment was lenient but at the same time a big big % of this fatal accident was due to the biker, that can’t really be argued with in my opinion.
Unfortunately it’s a way of life that some people drive like total idiots hence accidents happening & some people shouldn’t even hold a licence. Bikers, hgv holders and car licence holders all have them.
dri-diddly-iver:
truckman020:
truckulent is only saying what a vast majority are thinking,Really
you are quite right, I cant speak for other people,what I should have said is I was assuming other people thought the same
sorry if this is a little harsh
The 38-year-old had been travelling at about 97mph at the time of the collision
he got was coming to him, the person driving the car would not have seen him at that speed coming straight at them 
Bikers getting a big hammering in the DM comments
burnley-si:
sorry if this is a little harshThe 38-year-old had been travelling at about 97mph at the time of the collision
he got was coming to him, the person driving the car would not have seen him at that speed coming straight at them
Why ever not?? Does light behave differently at speeds around 100mph? Watch the video again. Do you see that car? It is (effectively) travelling straight towards the camera at 97mph and is as easy to spot as the other oncoming cars (whose speed relative to the camera is around 150mph).
Roymondo:
burnley-si:
sorry if this is a little harshThe 38-year-old had been travelling at about 97mph at the time of the collision
he got was coming to him, the person driving the car would not have seen him at that speed coming straight at them
Why ever not?? Does light behave differently at speeds around 100mph? Watch the video again. Do you see that car? It is (effectively) travelling straight towards the camera at 97mph and is as easy to spot as the other oncoming cars (whose speed relative to the camera is around 150mph).
(97mph at the time of the collision what speed was he doing before the collision)
there is no way that car driver would have been able to tell that this rider was travelling at such hi speed 97mph single carrageway junctions ahead didnt slow down tough, when i took my test i was told to ride defensively, if you want to ride like that get on the track
if he had been sticking to the speed limit would be still be alive more that likely
sorry no sympathy for people that die like this, seen it tomany times
burnley-si:
Roymondo:
burnley-si:
sorry if this is a little harshThe 38-year-old had been travelling at about 97mph at the time of the collision
he got was coming to him, the person driving the car would not have seen him at that speed coming straight at them
Why ever not?? Does light behave differently at speeds around 100mph? Watch the video again. Do you see that car? It is (effectively) travelling straight towards the camera at 97mph and is as easy to spot as the other oncoming cars (whose speed relative to the camera is around 150mph).
(97mph at the time of the collision what speed was he doing before the collision)
there is no way that car driver would have been able to tell that this rider was travelling at such hi speed 97mph single carrageway junctions ahead didnt slow down tough, when i took my test i was told to ride defensively, if you want to ride like that get on the track
if he had been sticking to the speed limit would be still be alive more that likely
sorry no sympathy for people that die like this, seen it tomany times
Then, you sir, are a 'kin idiot!
Yes, he should’ve slowed down for the junction, everyone has said that, but the car driver SHOULD NOT have pulled across his path, there is NO excuse for that.
He claims he didn’t even see the bike, well, either his eye sight is well below standard, or he was busy doing something else (like so many drivers seem to do these days), either way he should never be behind the wheel again.
waynedl:
Then, you sir, are a 'kin idiot!Yes, he should’ve slowed down for the junction, everyone has said that, but the car driver SHOULD NOT have pulled across his path, there is NO excuse for that.
He claims he didn’t even see the bike, well, either his eye sight is well below standard, or he was busy doing something else (like so many drivers seem to do these days), either way he should never be behind the wheel again.
Get ready for the flack, I got slated for similar 
dri-diddly-iver:
waynedl:
Then, you sir, are a 'kin idiot!Yes, he should’ve slowed down for the junction, everyone has said that, but the car driver SHOULD NOT have pulled across his path, there is NO excuse for that.
He claims he didn’t even see the bike, well, either his eye sight is well below standard, or he was busy doing something else (like so many drivers seem to do these days), either way he should never be behind the wheel again.
Get ready for the flack, I got slated for similar
I’ve said the same on here before and also on the video, on the Daily Snail and on Facebook, and I’m still waiting for the 1st sensible argument.
I’ve done the calculations based on the speed he was going, and how far away he’d have been 5 seconds and 10 seconds before the accident (225m and 450m), compared to if he was doing the limit (135m and 270m) - these figures are ‘rough’ but if a driver can’t see a vehicle 450m away, they shouldn’t be driving, and that’s TEN seconds before impact, well, that car didn’t cross the line until around ONE second before impact (probably less, but the video timer is only in seconds).
We all make mistakes, as someone else said, how often have you gone to pull away, then something’s caught your eye and you slam on the brakes, that’s because you’re actually looking and observing constantly, this driver obviously was doing neither.
It is a popular road with motorcycles, and the weather was good which means more motorcycles (we call these guys ‘power rangers’ or FWB - Fair Weather Bikers - I ride all year round) will be out, so extra care to be taken by all looking out for them.
Also, some bikes been parked up for months, the riders will be a bit rusty and still settling in, mistakes made etc.
This driver not only DIDN’T see the bike, but didn’t even see the car behind
This error in judgement and observation, no matter what the argument against the bikers speed is, cost this rider his life. He’s now DEAD, can not say “I will slow down there next time” because he’s now DEAD!.
In a HGV, it’s a damned site easier to make a mistake that’ll cost someone their lives, more blind spots, much slower at performing any manoeuvre, and much more mass so if it does go wrong, it’s going to hurt a lot more, but if you make a mistake that costs someone their life in your truck, see what punishment comes your way, no matter what the other person was doing.
The biker WAS going too quick for the road (legally) and too quick for approaching a junction, especially a staggered junction (practically), but that doesn’t mean that he should pay for that with his life, which is what’s happened because the car driver was driving around with their bloody eyes shut (or more likely on something other than the road)
Your calculations are wrong!.
IF he had been sticking to the speed limits, he would have been a mile away from The junction when The car made The right turn!
Waynedl - a lot of what you have been saying is understandable. However I think your being a little blinkered in believing the main culprit in this tragedy is the car driver.
You’ve mentioned calculations on distance and speed for a few seconds before. All well and good but we don’t really know how long he was riding well over the speed limits do we !! So as has been said, he could well of been a mile away from that car had he been riding to the law.
How do you stand if things where reversed and a car travelling at 97mph down that round then hit a biker that was turning right & killed him/her !! …let me guess, it would be the car drivers fault for speeding I presume & not the poor biker.
redboxer850:
Your calculations are wrong!.
IF he had been sticking to the speed limits, he would have been a mile away from The junction when The car made The right turn!
Yep, and if he’d been riding faster he’d have passed the junction before the car arrived there. If if if, it’s all academic, the car driver screwed up and a man paid for that with his life. It’s the sheer arrogance of people like the car driver that needs addressing, they claim not to see bikers/cyclists when the truth is they actually see them but don’t register them as potentially harmful to themselves so carry on regardless. I know it’s a scenario that would never happen, but if the biker had been driving a truck at 90 odd mph there do we still think the car would’ve attempted to cross? Doubtful as he’d recognise the risk to himself.
Imo the car driver is comparable to one of those you follow who grudgingly moves over 8 inches as he passes a cyclist, all because he doesn’t give a flying ■■■■ about anyone else.
redboxer850:
Your calculations are wrong!.
IF he had been sticking to the speed limits, he would have been a mile away from The junction when The car made The right turn!
Nobody sticks to all limits all the time, so your calculations are wrong. Mine are based on dropping to the limit around 10 seconds before the junction.
Have you never sped? Not on a motorway, dual carriageway, straight single carriageway? In car, truck, on bike etc??
Say no, and I’ll tell you you’re a ■■■■■■■ liar, simple. We all exceed the limit now and then, ALL of us.
How many HGV’s on the limiter on duals, how many on the limiter on THAT ACTUAL road - a single carriageway 40mph limit (for now) for a HGV, and I’ve been overtaken on there by other trucks that are almost definitely flat to the mat.
He was doing 97mph, but as I said, go and drive your car at 97mph, or ride a big bike at 97mph, in the right gear, it feels SLOW, it really does. However, drop it a few cogs and it feels faster. It’s all about the feeling and the impression / illusion of the speed. We all know 60mph is quick when you see a car go by at 60mph, but if you’re the one driving it… How many calls to increase the speed of NSL roads, not just for HGV’s but for everyone.
Yes, the biker was going too quick at that point, the road was too busy and the junction for those speeds, but it is easily done, you just wind it on a bit to pass someone. My bikes will be well into 3 figures from a standing start in the length of a slip road onto a motorway, and that’s not even hammering them, 1 will do around 90mph in 1st gear.
My argument, is not in defence of the rider as such, but is an attack on the car driver who had no excuse for not seeing the bike, and should not have gone, if he couldn’t see the bike then he shouldn’t have been behind the wheel, simple.
Boo9729:
Waynedl - a lot of what you have been saying is understandable. However I think your being a little blinkered in believing the main culprit in this tragedy is the car driver.You’ve mentioned calculations on distance and speed for a few seconds before. All well and good but we don’t really know how long he was riding well over the speed limits do we !! So as has been said, he could well of been a mile away from that car had he been riding to the law.
How do you stand if things where reversed and a car travelling at 97mph down that round then hit a biker that was turning right & killed him/her !! …let me guess, it would be the car drivers fault for speeding I presume & not the poor biker.
No, it would be the bikers fault, but it is unlikely a biker would make such a poor misjudgement, and if that did happen, the biker would pay with their life for their misjudgement not someone elses.
I’m not pro - speeding, I’m not anti - speeding either, I think speed limits are a joke, people have different skills, different abilities, there’s different standards of vehicles and at certain times / days / places then the speed limits are WRONG.
A lot of country lanes are NSL, 60mph limit, so you get boy racers flying down, but you get tractors going between fields, horses going for a stroll, even walkers, not safe at 60mph, that road however is safe much faster than 60mph, motorways at certain times are safe faster than 70mph, at other times they’re not safe at 50.
You can say if he did the limit then he’d not have been there at that time, but the car driver might have stopped for macdonalds, so then it all happens again a few seconds / minutes later, if’s and buts won’t bring him back, the car driver opening their eyes would have saved his life though.
If he’d been going 100mph instead of 97mph, he wouldn’t have been there at that exact second either, still car drivers fault.
It’s one of those situations that could be debated forever. Simple fact is we all have opinions and slightly differing views.
Personally I respect other people’s opinions, agree whole heartedly with some comments but not with others.
All the debating in the world won’t bring this poor guy back. I just hope that many people see this video & think about the way they drive a car, ride a bike or drive an HGV .
As a motorcycle riding, truck driving, coach driving chap, I have read this thread and appreciates everyones viewpoint. Speed, bad luck, inattention, (not necessarily in that order).
RIP, you spent your last moments doing what you enjoyed.
Paul
waynedl:
Nobody sticks to all limits all the time, so your calculations are wrong. Mine are based on dropping to the limit around 10 seconds before the junction.
But he didnt slow down 10 seconds before The junction.
He didnt slow down, full stop!
Anyone travelling “at speed” should “expect the unexpected”
The biker should have seen the junction approaching and the car preparing to turn right, and should have slowed down.
In my eyes, the car driver should have been charged with careless driving.
The biker was The only one driving dangerously that day.
And yes, I have been guilty of speeding.
the bikers giving it some beans,and mr myopic pullsout as he always does…there but for the grace of god…both to blame,bikes too fast,mr myopic shouldn’t be driving,■■■■ happens end of.everybody sppeds to a certain degree whether on bikesor trucks,blind zoomers like mr myopic just shouldn’t be driving as they will still pull out in front of the next bike,car or truck anyway.the only difference is,when they pull out in front of you or me at work,then they get on the receiving end of 46 tons of 2 nd prize the next time.with the truckie definitely getting the blame. 
The car driver was charged with causing death by careless driving - not dangerous driving. He pleaded guilty and also admitted that he should have seen the bike (and the car following it, which he also did not spot).
It’s not a case, as some here seem intent on arguing, that he misjudged the approaching bike’s speed, or that he assumed it was travelling within the legal limit - He admitted that he did not see it.