Bewick:
v7victor:
Bewick:
IIRC the quality of Phillips derv was somewhat lower than the Majors which resulted in lower MPG,and as I found out,contrary to what the Phillips salesman assured me, their prices worked out the same as Shell and BP,so who was taking the ■■■■ ?
No comment Dennis but did his name start with a B
Aye Vic,and it ended with a T
Aye,i thought it would 
I stand corrected about the year of the fuel protests. Doesn’t time pass quickly??
Dennis, you raise an interesting point about getting less mpg with the Phillips diesel, I’ve often wondered about that kind of thing, did you have much experience of this between brands?
I used to buy from a small independent and their stuff was like water, the bloke swore it came from the same tank farm as everyone else’s, but if I filled at the local keyfuels, which supposedly came from the same supplier, I got much better returns.
newmercman:
Dennis, you raise an interesting point about getting less mpg with the Phillips diesel, I’ve often wondered about that kind of thing, did you have much experience of this between brands?I used to buy from a small independent and their stuff was like water, the bloke swore it came from the same tank farm as everyone else’s, but if I filled at the local keyfuels, which supposedly came from the same supplier, I got much better returns.
Dennis,if that was Crooklands we did put 2 to 3 loads in their tanks daily,but as you will know they had a lot of storage so it would get well (blended)
newmercman:
Dennis, you raise an interesting point about getting less mpg with the Phillips diesel, I’ve often wondered about that kind of thing, did you have much experience of this between brands?I used to buy from a small independent and their stuff was like water, the bloke swore it came from the same tank farm as everyone else’s, but if I filled at the local keyfuels, which supposedly came from the same supplier, I got much better returns.
When I researched my “Century of Petroleum Transport” book (published by Roundoak in 1998) most of the main oil companies were surprisingly very helpful. One thing I hadn’t realised before starting that project was that not all petroleum or diesel fuels is a result of refining crude oil. For example, historically Isherwoods VIP petrol was a by product of town gas production in the days when every town had a gasworks. Similarly National Benzole used to be a by product. So depending on the source of the fuel it might affect its performance and mpg. One thing I recall from my youth is that some brands of petrol, when there was more variety, did have a different smell to others.
gingerfold:
newmercman:
Dennis, you raise an interesting point about getting less mpg with the Phillips diesel, I’ve often wondered about that kind of thing, did you have much experience of this between brands?I used to buy from a small independent and their stuff was like water, the bloke swore it came from the same tank farm as everyone else’s, but if I filled at the local keyfuels, which supposedly came from the same supplier, I got much better returns.
When I researched my “Century of Petroleum Transport” book (published by Roundoak in 1998) most of the main oil companies were surprisingly very helpful. One thing I hadn’t realised before starting that project was that not all petroleum or diesel fuels is a result of refining crude oil. For example, historically Isherwoods VIP petrol was a by product of town gas production in the days when every town had a gasworks. Similarly National Benzole used to be a by product. So depending on the source of the fuel it might affect its performance and mpg. One thing I recall from my youth is that some brands of petrol, when there was more variety, did have a different smell to others.
Very interesting
newmercman:
Very interesting
I’ll second that. IIRC, my Dad used to give National and Jet a swerve because it was not proper petrol, regardless of how many Green Shield stamps they were offering!
When we used to serve Cleveland petrol, my boss used to reckon that the different grades smelled different. He thought it was to do with the varying amounts of benzene in them.
Personally, I have always used Shell Derv as, apart from collecting the Drivers’ Club points, it was said that Shell added more anti-waxing ingredient in the winter than other brands.
Is it possible to buy test equipment for fuel? It would be worth it for a large fleet, especially if they were monitoring MPG readings. If the fuel is variable, then their measurements may be meaningless.
It was Paul Stiller that told me about the poor MPG of Phillips derv,he had run a trial with some motors to the South east and back and the motors running on Phillips couldn’t make the round trip without filling up whereas those on Shell IIRC could make the round trip easily without the need for extra derv.As regards “smelly” fuel I reckon that the now long gone ICI petrol would rank as probably the worst,it stunk !! Was it some sort sort of by product from an industrial process or what.In the late 60’s early 70’s Crabtrees garage in Kendal,now long gone,sold ICI juice and from memory it was always cheaper than the Major brands but it made you wonder if it would do any damage long term.I always reckon that the Supermarket petrol is of questionable quality,they probably buy their supplies on the spot market in Rotterdam so it will probably be old stock which has deteriated in long term storage and then it is bought at rock bottom prices by the the big Supermarkets Cheers Dennis.
Well Dennis regarding the smell nowts changed has it , Its the bloody price of the stuff that stinks now Eh, Regards Larry.
Lawrence Dunbar:
Well Dennis regarding the smell nowts changed has it , Its the bloody price of the stuff that stinks now Eh, Regards Larry.
Quite correct Larry,it makes you wonder how hauliers can make “a do” of the job nowadays as over 50% and probaby nearer 60% of their T/O goes to paying for derv,and most of that is bloody duty and VAT,the actual net price of the derv is fairly reasonable eh! Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
It was Paul Stiller that told me about the poor MPG of Phillips derv,he had run a trial with some motors to the South east and back and the motors running on Phillips couldn’t make the round trip without filling up whereas those on Shell IIRC could make the round trip easily without the need for extra derv.As regards “smelly” fuel I reckon that the now long gone ICI petrol would rank as probably the worst,it stunk !! Was it some sort sort of by product from an industrial process or what.In the late 60’s early 70’s Crabtrees garage in Kendal,now long gone,sold ICI juice and from memory it was always cheaper than the Major brands but it made you wonder if it would do any damage long term.I always reckon that the Supermarket petrol is of questionable quality,they probably buy their supplies on the spot market in Rotterdam so it will probably be old stock which has deteriated in long term storage and then it is bought at rock bottom prices by the the big Supermarkets
Bloody hell Dennis,this subject we discused way back is showing a bit of interest again 
Of course V7Victor like yourself us owld haulage men never forget the old days good or bad we just got on with whatever we had to do, & speaking for myself Im still doing a bit of driving from time to time, & Still learning how to cope with present day activities, & much to my regret I don’t bloody like what I see when Im driving HGV.s, The present day drivers (Not all of them mind), Would have been on the dole in my younger days behind the wheel, But that’s the way things are to-day & a lot of them don’t give a ■■■■ anyway, Regards Larry.
Obviously your fuel in Europe is of different quality to our Aus product but ours sure smells different to the distillate from earlier times.
Exhausts smell more like kero jet fuel these days than diesel.
Again, going back to the research I did I spent a day at Colwick oil terminal with Total and then went out with a tanker driver doing forecourt deliveries that evening. As the fuel tanker drivers on here will know all the fuel companies draw from the nearest terminal and their own additives are put in when they fill up. For example, a Shell tanker drawing a load of fuel at Colwick loads the base fuel and selects the Shell additives to go with it. Supermarket fuel is bought mainly on the spot market from wherever and is a basic fuel without expensive additives. I personally never buy it. Also over the years I can prove that the premium grades such as Shell, Esso, BP, Texaco give better MPG returns than “ordinary” grades. Incidentally, JET was started by Bottomley Car Hire of Huddersfield. a Hansons subsidiary company that sourced supplies from the spot market until it had grown enough to build its own refinery at Killingholme.
gingerfold:
Again, going back to the research I did I spent a day at Colwick oil terminal with Total and then went out with a tanker driver doing forecourt deliveries that evening. As the fuel tanker drivers on here will know all the fuel companies draw from the nearest terminal and their own additives are put in when they fill up. For example, a Shell tanker drawing a load of fuel at Colwick loads the base fuel and selects the Shell additives to go with it. Supermarket fuel is bought mainly on the spot market from wherever and is a basic fuel without expensive additives. I personally never buy it. Also over the years I can prove that the premium grades such as Shell, Esso, BP, Texaco give better MPG returns than “ordinary” grades. Incidentally, JET was started by Bottomley Car Hire of Huddersfield. a Hansons subsidiary company that sourced supplies from the spot market until it had grown enough to build its own refinery at Killingholme.
At Phillips North Tees we only loaded our own product but other companys took a small amount out too.North Tees was oil site only,the petrol we delivered was in the early days we got from ICI 
And in later years on contract only to the police, ambulance, and fire stations from Seal Sands.P.S.34 years on fuel deliverys and now retired and i don’t use supermarket fuel.
Yes, ICI petrol was a by product grade.
Eight layers high? Must have flogged the other half of the load en route
