Now on BBC1 You Have Been Scammed highlighting the brokers that exploit the HGV training etc
I’m only a couple of mins into it at the moment, but when did it become a requirement to do a minimum of 5 days practical training?
Didn’t think there was any set time unless cpc has changed this?
That one’s been on before, already on Youtube:
It really is time this whole industry was regulated, it seems there are hundreds if not thousands of people who have just been ripped off, nothing more or less.
Harry Monk:
It really is time this whole industry was regulated, it seems there are hundreds if not thousands of people who have just been ripped off, nothing more or less.
Now you cannot even trust the scambuster programmes though, even the presenters are on the fiddle 
Wheel Nut:
Harry Monk:
It really is time this whole industry was regulated, it seems there are hundreds if not thousands of people who have just been ripped off, nothing more or less.Now you cannot even trust the scambuster programmes though, even the presenters are on the fiddle
Yes, I know. You’d think that would be a bit too high profile a job for a benefits fiddler!
It seems that in this country is is perfectly legal to set up a company that has no purpose other than to steal the customer’s money.
This can continue unchecked, and the firm quickly wound up once the scam comes to light. Another company can be set up in the next town to do the same thing. There is little risk of Jail or asset confiscation from the directors concerned, as the law is on their side in making it well-nigh impossible to bring such crooks to book. 
In the BBC programme mentioned on this thread, I made these observations:-
(1) The rogue company is neither named, nor even the town(s) they operate in mentioned.
(2) Mention of “Reputable firms” was made. How does one know which firms are mickey mouse or honest if NO ONE ACTUALLY NAMES THEM?
(3) We see a guy sitting in a truck to be the representation of “Reputable Training Firm” - Which firm might that be? What’s their address?
(4) At no stage did anyone offer the OBVIOUS advice to “not deal with a broker” which should have been following “this industry is unregulated”.
(5) No mention of the real price range of training was given. North o £2k would have to be higher than anyone else in the country, so one would have THOUGHT there would be plenty of firms jumping up to name themselves, and how cheap they are for the real thing by comparison!
…and in the end of course, the programme did NOTHING to put anyone in jail, report anyone to the police even, help the victim get their money back - like going around the bent company MD’s villa with a camera! 
This in my mind is how the programme should have dealt with this issue:-
(a) Joe Bloggs is from Manchester. He paid £2400 to Mickey Mouse Trucking Ltd for a course of lessons he never received. 
(b) Mickey Mouse Trucking is owned by Fred Shyster currently living in Malta, and we went around his house using some of Jeremy Clarkeson’s budget to have a word. Being an issue close to Clarkson’s heart, he was happy to support this worthy cause!
(c) We’ve found a loaded Fred Shyster bank account within the UK. Since it was not exempt from UK bankruptcy laws, we’ve assisted Joe Bloggs in obtaining a winding up petition. The police have issued a warrent for the arrest of Fred Shyster on his next return to the UK - If he should come back! 
(d) We spoke to NAMED PERSON of the RHA and NAMED LOCAL COMPANY DIRECTOR of THIS driving school in Manchester showing you THIS external shot of the tractor he’s sitting in. The locale used is Joe Blogg’s home town. We felt that this was relevent information, and a lot more useful to the public than the “no new information” of the programme that was actually aired. 
(e) Named Persons confirmed that the mean going rates for a 10 day C+E full training course including test fee is £950+VAT, and advise caution when dealing with firms charging some distance away from this.
On a seperate note, if any member of the public wanted to make a freelance programme for the BBC, then they’d start by stating their credentials.
THIS is what the “NAMED PERSON” system is there for. Reputation is everything, unknown face no matter how plausible is nothing.
Many freelance programmes require a heavily-qualified person presenting, along with the programme being pretty much produced by the same person.
You don’t really think that someone like Jeremy Clarkson gets paid £3million a year without having to concept, design, bankroll, and fully produce much of the outdoor material that he appears in do you? 
i can’t understand how people can be scammed so easily in this day and age.
we have this forum for advice, banter,realism, and much more.
there’s the companies house website. you can check the company address against the address you’re given, and how long they’ve been trading. many firms claim 35 years in business, when they’ve only been about since last christmas.
then there is google maps. you can check the said address on street view. is it an office on the 5th floor? prety [zb]ing hard to get a lorry up there.
limeyphil:
i can’t understand how people can be scammed so easily in this day and age.
we have this forum for advice, banter,realism, and much more.
there’s the companies house website. you can check the company address against the address you’re given, and how long they’ve been trading. many firms claim 35 years in business, when they’ve only been about since last christmas.
then there is google maps. you can check the said address on street view. is it an office on the 5th floor? prety [zb]ing hard to get a lorry up there.
I saw a similar programme to this recently, which covered dodgy HGV driving schools. It also had a piece on Trading Standards as they visited shops in Brighton busting shopkeepers for selling fake alcohol.
Now, anyone can go on the internet and learn how to spot a bottle of fake spirit. How to swirl the bottle and see what the bubbles do. How to scrape the duty stamp with the edge of a coin and see what is does, how to hold the duty stamp under ultra-violet light and check that it fluoresces.
But the point is that you shouldn’t have to do this. You should be safe in the knowledge that if you buy vodka from a shop that it is the genuine article. Same as if you pay for HGV driving lessons then you should be able to be confident that you receive what you were offered. It’s rather pointless to blame a victim of crime for being a victim of crime.
i see your point harry, but buying dodgy booze from a shop is something you do on a friday night, and it takes a few seconds. but someone taking hgv, car, or psv lessons will usually ask around whilst saving up.
Personally, I think that the answer to this is regulation of the industry.
Once upon a time it was quite common for people booking holidays to lose large amounts of money as companies folded, only to open up almost immediately under a new name, rinse and repeat. That’s why ABTA and ATOL bonds came into being and a similar bonding system is needed in the HGV training industry where people pay large sums in advance for a product there is no guarantee they will receive.
regulation is a dirty word in my book.
but i do like the idea of a bond system.
limeyphil:
regulation is a dirty word in my book.
But taking that to its logical conclusion, you might as well say that we don’t need HGV driving schools, lessons or driving tests anyway because anyone of any age or ability should be allowed to drive and operate a truck. 
The simplest bonding idea would be for anyone setting up themselves as company director puts their entire estate on the line in the event of criminal default.
Only criminals would be horrified by such a move of course, but the public will be made to feel that this is somehow an unreasonable expectation from company directors, and goes against the limited liability aspects of setting up a company.
Meanwhile, the criminal’s charter which our current company law represents will continue.
You’d have to go quite a way east to get a square deal where public and company have the correct balance of power, and I wasn’t thinking of Dagenham here!
Harry Monk:
‘… I think that the answer to this is regulation of the industry…’
A very fair point, but ‘…regulation…’ by whom?
We could wait to be regulated from over the Channel - in which case let’s anticipate a clustered nightmare, or bespoke & accurate protection could be sought from an existing group/agency/industry administrator to which the British arm of our industry may have ready access.
Simply asking for ‘regulation’ is arguably too vague and likely to invite intrusion from foreigners who are continually focused on interpreting broader ‘needs’ rather than safeguarding British interests.
I’m none too clued up who’d be best to directly lobby on this issue, but agree that it’s ripe to be progressed …and soon 
Any ideas which authority we could canvass either as individuals or as a collective 
I suppose the obvious body to regulate HGV driving school brokers is the DSA.
VOSA can and should regulate the industry. The DSA have proved they are a failure and have no jurisdiction over the majority of trainers.
VOSA keep the garages in check with the MOT system
VOSA keep the operators in check
The TC has a big stick to keep drivers in check
The TC has a big stick to keep operators in check
VOSA already generate their own funding from licensing and operating the ATF, they operate the majority of test centres where drivers set off on their journey to become a professional.
They also understand the need for proper training. The idea could go one step further, relieve JAUPT and S for L of their responsibility and let VOSA police the DCPC training industry too. There are too many under achieving trainers.
I envisage this happening.
Ring Ring.
Hello.
Press 1 for MOT Testing
Press 2 for driving tests
Press 3 for driver training
Press 4 for assessments
Etc…
Vehicle Operator & Driver Knowledge Agency
…But…That would involve voting Labour back in to achieve this massive expansion of the public sector, that Osbourn is so busy cutting, whilst wasting even more morey in the process. It’s official now after all, and they can’t blame Gordon Brown anymore now they’ve been in office over two years and got absolutely nowhere!
I wasn’t getting the impression that the public are in the mood for more labour, not whilst this current joke government manages to stay in power despite all the moaning!
Winseer:
…But…That would involve voting Labour back in to achieve this massive expansion of the public sector, that Osbourn is so busy cutting, whilst wasting even more morey in the process. It’s official now after all, and they can’t blame Gordon Brown anymore now they’ve been in office over two years and got absolutely nowhere!
I wasn’t getting the impression that the public are in the mood for more labour, not whilst this current joke government manages to stay in power despite all the moaning!
I will be happy to see JAUPT lose their funding and for the DSA to become accountable for something. How can you have a voluntary scheme who has no say in the HGV sector