Bad habits

I had my assesment bus drive today. For my surprise it was much easier than I expected, and for my another surprise, I will need two days to ride off my bad habits such as:

  • keeping my hands on the steering wheel in 2:50 position instead of 2:45
  • also I am turning the wheel with big hand movements, and I should to model pretzels instead…
  • changing two lanes at one time, instead of changing one, then put indicator off, then put indicator on and change another one.
  • putting indicator on to change a lane when the lane I want to go into is not clear (By that I wonder how I can join M8 from M80, if I will not show them that I want to go into their lane, they won’t let me in, as they will think I want to go to the Cathedral.
  • I am checking my mirrors very often when necessary, and not as often when driving straight on the easy motorway - I should do it “every 4 or 5 seconds”…

I have also to get into the habit of checking mirror with a big head movement, as when I just looking into the mirror they think that I am not checking it (it’s not a problem with the left one, but the right one is in very convienient position so I don’t have to move my head to check it).

Also: it’s dangerous to roll slowly to the red light on neutral gear on empty road - I should keep a gear on…

Oh, I wish I had passed my driving test and I could come back to my dangerous habits again… :grimacing:

[zb] me , anybody would think you are driving the challenger shuttle and you were previously a getaway driver for the krays… It’s a bus not a pony and trap to which you might be more used to in Poland… dribble like that and we will all log off in record time… any one else agree?

orys:
keeping my hands on the steering wheel in 2:50 position instead of 2:45

10 to 2 is slightly better than quarter to three but not so much as it would matter.

orys:
also I am turning the wheel with big hand movements, and I should to model pretzels instead…

Using the whole of the steering wheel and keeping each hand in it’s own half is what is advised by just about every driver trainer I know

orys:
changing two lanes at one time, instead of changing one, then put indicator off, then put indicator on and change another one.

Only required if other road users will benefit from it

orys:
putting indicator on to change a lane when the lane I want to go into is not clear (By that I wonder how I can join M8 from M80, if I will not show them that I want to go into their lane, they won’t let me in, as they will think I want to go to the Cathedral.

What happened to the correct use of the signal - I INTEND TO…

orys:
I am checking my mirrors very often when necessary, and not as often when driving straight on the easy motorway - I should do it “every 4 or 5 seconds”…

I’ll go along with the 5 second mirror check bit if m’way not quiet

orys:
I have also to get into the habit of checking mirror with a big head movement, as when I just looking into the mirror they think that I am not checking it (it’s not a problem with the left one, but the right one is in very convienient position so I don’t have to move my head to check it).

A good assessor will know if you have moved your eyes to look

orys:
Also: it’s dangerous to roll slowly to the red light on neutral gear on empty road - I should keep a gear on…

OK, being pedantic, the gear should be engaged but it was not unsafe in the situation you describe.

Orys, did this assessor write his own unique rules of driving :question: :question:

Wait till you pass your test, all the things you fail on will become second nature to you when driving a service bus!

Who was it you went for the assesment with?

  • keeping my hands on the steering wheel in 2:50 position instead of 2:45
  • also I am turning the wheel with big hand movements, and I should to model pretzels instead…
  • changing two lanes at one time, instead of changing one, then put indicator off, then put indicator on and change another one.
  • putting indicator on to change a lane when the lane I want to go into is not clear (By that I wonder how I can join M8 from M80, if I will not show them that I want to go into their lane, they won’t let me in, as they will think I want to go to the Cathedral.
  • I am checking my mirrors very often when necessary, and not as often when driving straight on the easy motorway - I should do it “every 4 or 5 seconds”…

I have also to get into the habit of checking mirror with a big head movement, as when I just looking into the mirror they think that I am not checking it (it’s not a problem with the left one, but the right one is in very convienient position so I don’t have to move my head to check it).

so now i understand why …

with gear on they were right.
remove last sentence cos BB IS WATCHING YOU

We had to have an assessment drive for the insurance company and I felt really insulted by this, so when the assesser hovered over his clipboard and said “Now, can you tell me about your experience?”, I said “I do 80,000 miles a year, I’ve driven in 28 different countries and I drove to Siberia and back during the coldest month in Russia for over a hundred years”, and he shut right up!

I had a lot of help in compiling and formatting this post - thank you to those that helped :smiley:

DRIVING ASSESSMENTS

This post refers to the in-house assessments that are carried out by companies. Hopefully some of the answers here will alleviate drivers’ more common concerns.

darkseeker:
I must admit, I find the prospect of being assessed quite un-nerving.

gogzy:
bloody annoying, you past the test why do you need to be assessed?

TOMLEWISWD63DW:
I dont think you should be you pay all that money to pass your test surley thats enough and the law states that you are able to drive all types of vehicle stated on your licence

“I am a good driver”
This is the view a lot of drivers have . One thing most forget is that since their last test they have been their own assessor so how does a driver really KNOW ?:?:

Let’s start with what a driving assessment is and what it might entail.

dieseldave:
My best advice to a driver who’s worried by a driving assessment is that they should embrace it and take it as an opportunity to show a qualified person just how good you really are in just the same way as you did when you took your original LGV driving test.

Some drivers welcome assessments. The assessors are seeing things through a fresh pair of eyes and from a different perspective - that view can be priceless.

There are a number of possible areas to an assessment, such as:
1 - Knowledge of basic Tacho & WTD rules.
2 - Knowledge of Highway Code
3 - Theory of safe & economic driving
4 - Pre drive vehicle safety check
5 - Drive on the public highway
6 - Manoeuvring
7 - Un/coupling

Examples : -

Possible questions-
How many hours can you drive without taking a break?
How long can you work for without taking a break?
You see a bridge weight sign that says 10 tonnes, your vehicle is empty & weighs 8 tonnes - can you go over that bridge?
You anticipate that you will arrive at a merge point at the same time as another vehicle - what is your safest course of action?
You are cruising on a long flat road with very few hazards - for fuel economy, where should the rev counter reading be?

Vehicle safety check - Assessor observes to see if the driver checks for -
Height indicator
Wheel nut security
Tax disc, in-date? & correct vehicle registration?

The road drive-
Over-revving?
Smooth gear changes?
Confident driving?
Considerate driving?
Keeping within speed limits?
Plenty of observations.?
Economical driving?

Manoeuvring -
Is the driver safe and proficient?

Un/coupling -
Is a good procedure used to ensure it is done safely?

The road drive is the part most drivers have reservations about.

Smee:
I said to the guy - Do you want me to drive as per the book or as a professional driver and yes there is a difference…

There are various styles of driving -
The LGV training & test style
The way you drive in your everyday job
The advanced method

None of these styles are either the right or wrong way, they are just different.

The style you choose makes no difference. The assessor should be looking for a SAFE drive, incorporating as much as possible of what has been mentioned above.

Smee:
I am not having a go at anyone its just that when you have been driving artics for 25 years and a DSA qualified instructor its bloody annoying…

What do you think the other guys would say if you were given some sort of exemption? Would the impression be that you are better than them? You have to be assessed to become a DSA qualified instructor, so it’s just another confirmation that you’re still up to standard.

The assessor should make clear to the driver what their credentials are, what they are looking for and how they wish the drive to go. If not, then ask. A good assessor will not take offence but if they do, seek advice from your management.

The tone of the assessment

renaultman:
I had to do an assessment a couple of years ago, …
… I made a couple of daft mistakes on the way over, normal everyday misjudgements. Stopping at a roundabout when I was clear to go, the most annoying one being going to pass a car doing well under 50mph, for him to accelerate away, I pulled back in. Both of which I got a bit of a bollocking for, neither of which I thought were particularly serious, and told him so, in no uncertain terms.

Looking at the assessment above it seems that the assessor has not found any unsafe issues to mention so has decided that they ‘must say something’ and made totally uncalled for remarks.

This is not the way an assessment should be done as it clearly alienates the driver. The assessor should give advice - not “you did that wrong!” or “what the hell did you think you were doing?” Friendly discussion on a point produces far better results.

Example of how a good assessment might be done: -

Artic driver enters a generous two lane roundabout with a car on the right about half way down the trailer and part way onto it the artic driver has to brake because the room available is not quite enough to accommodate both - well, there would have been if the car had kept well to the right but the car didn’t :exclamation:

Discussion at the end of drive debrief -

Assessor - do you remember that roundabout where that car took the space you intended to use?

Driver - yes

Assessor - did you consider that action by the car to be a possibility?

Driver - err, I think so

Assessor - OK, what would have been OUR best course of action on the approach for that particular scenario so that WE did not get into that situation? (note that the assessor and the driver are in the same context - not a YOU one)

Driver - to ease off slightly and let the car go first.

Assessor - I would agree with that - SMILE

The assessor has, by the use of questions, got the driver to THINK about the situation and come up with the SOLUTION all on their own. It does help if the assessor is pleasant and makes it enjoyable.

Lets now move onto one of the most emotive subjects - The qualified person issue.

The driver being assessed may have 30 years experience, but that does not necessarily mean that their driving or their tacho knowledge is up to a required standard or cannot be improved upon.

The assessor does not have to be as ‘experienced’ as the driver, but they do need to know what to look for in regard to the task being assessed. In the case of job assessment, they might have to answer as many questions as they are asking. If the prospective employee has never driven this model of truck, they will need some information as to how things work. Not all drivers have had experience of all truck models, so that should be taken into account.

For aspects such as tacho testing, then the assessor must have the relevant knowledge.

If the assessor is not being checked on a regular basis by at least another assessor or preferably someone higher from a recognised driving body or organisation, then their credentials would lacking in weight.

The implementation of a recognised standard would solve a lot of problems if it were afforded national accreditation, and allowed for regulated check-testing.
Although assessments might differ slightly from company to company, the basic format could be the same.

dieseldave:
IMHO, once drivers actually realise that they aren’t in an adversarial situation, what problem could possibly arise from being assessed by a person who can actually demonstrate that they are more qualified in a driving sense than the driver being assessed?

Files and files of gibberish and off track. boy you drivers are boring no wonder you can’t have the craic any more at truck/lorry parks. they should park you lot in a field out of town with WI-FI access and be done with ya and leave the town parking to drivers who embrace life on the road… thats it i’m bored ■■■■■■■■■ and ‘can i have my cheque please’ :open_mouth:

Harry Monk:
We had to have an assessment drive for the insurance company and I felt really insulted by this, so when the assesser hovered over his clipboard and said “Now, can you tell me about your experience?”, I said “I do 80,000 miles a year, I’ve driven in 28 different countries and I drove to Siberia and back during the coldest month in Russia for over a hundred years”, and he shut right up!

Harry arent they a load of ■■■■■■■■ 18 months a go i went for a interveiw with a small family company the boss said i need you to go out for a drive to make sure my 18 years experience was good enough. I expected a old timer to take me out who could teach me a thing or too but what a surprise his 32 year old WIFE appeared any way we got chatting and it turn out she has NOT got a HGV LICENSE but moves the trucks around the yard to wash them. What a load of imbeciles :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Yes, I asked my assessor if he had an HGV licence, and he admitted that he didn’t. But he is sitting there assessing me :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :open_mouth: .

And our struggling little company has to pay his wages.

Harry Monk:
Yes, I asked my assessor if he had an HGV licence, and he admitted that he didn’t. But he is sitting there assessing me :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :open_mouth: .

And our struggling little company has to pay his wages.

Interesting point? - a police traffic car driver (no LGV) can assess your driving :exclamation:

don’t play with your ■■■■, pick your nose, wipe your arse, pee in a bottle, or look down at large ■■■■ whilst being assessed.
it’s bad manners.
but afterwards who cares.

it dont matter if they have passed any driving test
just as long as they know how to ascesss

limeyphil:
or look down at large ■■■■ whilst being assessed.
it’s bad manners

I personally consider it so be outrageous that a truck driver would deliberately stare at a woman’s bosoms, simply because he was stuck in a traffic jam.

Like on the M26, for example. :wink:

First Bus put me through it and that was their patter.

Don`t indicate when pulling out until the road is clear as it will disturb other road users. :confused:

So a couple of years later I went for my rigid and the guys shouting “if you don`t bloody indicate how are we going to get out”. :confused:

I explained about the buses and I think he wanted to give me my money back. :laughing:

Never did find out if theres a difference between Lorries and Buses in the test for that.

Harry Monk:

limeyphil:
or look down at large ■■■■ whilst being assessed.
it’s bad manners

I personally consider it so be outrageous that a truck driver would deliberately stare at a woman’s bosoms, simply because he was stuck in a traffic jam.

Like on the M26, for example. :wink:

Or her lovely brown legs :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: top of the world ma :wink: :wink:

danielwilkie:
Who was it you went for the assesment with?

It was assesment for driving course, with Happy Hour.

ROG:
10 to 2 is slightly better than quarter to three but not so much as it would matter.

My problem is that I keep my hands asymetric.

Using the whole of the steering wheel and keeping each hand in it’s own half is what is advised by just about every driver trainer I know

…and ■■■■■■ out about every rally driver I know (and I know a few, my both uncle were rally drivers).

They have a point: if you drive in safe conditions, it’s not really as relevant. If the situation is dangerous and you need quick reaction on the wheel, if you’ll try to “feed” the wheel, you are dead. Quick reaction needs quick turning, and you have to do that even if you have to cross your hands.

youtube.com/watch?v=tbW4sP0n … re=related

This is an old movie “Driving School by Marian Bublewicz”. He was a sucessfull rally driver in 80s and 90s (vicechampion of Europe in 1992). Sorry, Polish only.
0:40 onwards: HOW TO NOT USE driving wheel
2:29 onwards: HOW TO USE driving wheel.
3:40 onwards: HOW TO USE driving wheel where many turns are required.

All vehicles today have PAS, and most modern lorries (and buses) have quite small steering wheel… So after my test, I am going back to this techique. I used to drive on snow, so I had some skids and drifts in my life and if I would use “feeding” technique, I would not write here now :slight_smile:

changing two lanes at one time, instead of changing one, then put indicator off, then put indicator on and change another one.

Only required if other road users will benefit from it

Yeah. Can I quote you? :>

orys:
putting indicator on to change a lane when the lane I want to go into is not clear (By that I wonder how I can join M8 from M80, if I will not show them that I want to go into their lane, they won’t let me in, as they will think I want to go to the Cathedral.

What happened to the correct use of the signal - I INTEND TO…

My point exactly!

orys:
I am checking my mirrors very often when necessary, and not as often when driving straight on the easy motorway - I should do it “every 4 or 5 seconds”…

I’ll go along with the 5 second mirror check bit if m’way not quiet

I am not counting the seconds, I am focused on safe driving!

A good assessor will know if you have moved your eyes to look

How? He can’t see my face in any mirrors…

orys:
Also: it’s dangerous to roll slowly to the red light on neutral gear on empty road - I should keep a gear on…

OK, being pedantic, the gear should be engaged but it was not unsafe in the situation you describe.

So when it’ unsafe? My lorry instructor tried to explain that to me, but it ended in “OK, you are right, but don’t do it on your test”.

Situation: I see red light couple hundreds metres ahead. I have 6th gear engaged. They want me to roll to the lights with a gear on, I want to do it with neutral on.

Arguments:

  1. when the gear is on, your braking power is bigger
  • it’s true to some certain speed, but when the engine is going to too low reves, it start to drive me forward (I bet many of you was driving slowly with gear engaged but without touching acceleration pedal). So it’s helpful only when I am still fast, then I have to push the clutch pedal.
  1. If someone will approach me from the back forcing me to accelerate to evade crash, I shall have gear engaged to be able to speed up.
  • what if I have 6th gear engaged and I am doing 20mph? To accelerate I have to disengage 6th and to engage 2nd or 3rd. Isn’t it easier from neutral position?

Orys, did this assessor write his own unique rules of driving :question: :question:
[/quote]
It was a driving instructor. I guess they all have their own world and it’s not the same as real driving :slight_smile:

What the hell, I have to do what he’s telling me for this two days and driving test, then I am free again.

Btw: he told me to get into the bus and look arround, so I looked at all controls and when he came back I wanted to ask him about few switches I did not know what they were for. But he started to show me how to put hazards, indicators, wipers… I was like “if he’ll tell me that to turn left I have to move this big wheel to the left, I am off home” :slight_smile:

Don`t indicate when pulling out until the road is clear as it will disturb other road users.

So a couple of years later I went for my rigid and the guys shouting “if you don`t bloody indicate how are we going to get out”.

I explained about the buses and I think he wanted to give me my money back.

Never did find out if theres a difference between Lorries and Buses in the test for that.

No difference on test - or in real life :laughing: :laughing:

Interesting point? - a police traffic car driver (no LGV) can assess your driving

the company i used to work for did their own in house assesments which were carried out by normal drivers my opinion is that if your going have someone assessed have them done by a person who holds the apropiate licence and expericence.

it would be like me assessing my mates yearly comercial pilots licence re-valadation when i dont hold one redicules