cav551:
Andrew Neil on the Paris attack:
Absolutely brilliant!
Freight Dog:
switchlogic:
Fascinating how many people on this thread seem to want to turn our country into a war zone. The fact remains that you’re probably safer on the streets of London now than you were in 70s/80s/90s. Not all wars can be won and when the enemy is a huge range of lone operators fighting fire with fire would just lead to more carnage. There is no easy answer hereWell, for myself I was discussing whether Police should be armed. I’m not sure how this correlates to “wanting to turn the country into a war zone”. I wouldn’t say armed Policemen in Paris has turned the city into a war zone. How did you come to that conclusion?
Just to break it down. Ive read and always understood that the risks from these people will be primarily prevented as far as possible exactly is as they’re already doing - intelligence, investigation and reporting. I hope the continued under funding of the Police and services is halted so more resources can be given to this.
Police with firearms is for the last hole of the Swiss cheese when intelligence fails, not a preventive strategy. It’s to mitigate. You have to have efforts in place at every stage in case one fails. The fact is the security services have warned more attacks will be likely and they have said some will get through, as we have seen. In all the violent terrorist attacks in Europe it was firearms that were required to mitigate the situation.
Regarding current safety, dwelling on past safety levels disregards to the changing landscape of UK homeland security. Surely you have to be forward thinking, not reward looking or indulging in status quo.
To be fair if I was quoting you I’d have quoted you 
GORDON 50:
cav551:
Andrew Neil on the Paris attack:Absolutely brilliant!
Probably the BBC’s pretence of balance.When Andrew Neil made his anti Trump and with it obviously the pro Islamic immigration agenda that’s causing the problems,clear enough here.
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Fascinating how many people on this thread seem to want to turn our country into a war zone.Not all wars can be won and when the enemy is a huge range of lone operators fighting fire with fire would just lead to more carnage. There is no easy answer hereYou seem to be saying that you actually acknowledge that we’ve got a problem in the form of an immigration policy that has brought in a potentially hostile demographic.Which you also now realise probably has an issue of split loyalties in a massive part,if not all,of its ranks ?.
The answer to that in your view is appeasement,put your head in the sand,carry on bringing in even more of it,rather than send it back home where it came from,and hope it will leave you alone and won’t bite you ?.When centuries of history tells you that it probably will.
While at the same time telling them that we are at war with ‘radical’ Islam.While also trusting ‘moderate’ Islam not to be using Taqiyya against us when all the evidence coming out of the mouths of their big bosses and the Sharia regime as it stands,in Saudi and Iran,is that they most certainly are.On that note if you really think that appeasement is the way to fix all this then at least do it properly.By stopping bombing ‘ISIS’ and saying that all further attacks will be dealt with by negotiation and un armed police winning hearts and minds rather than shooting them .
Yes, we do have a problem. But I don’t think bombing ISIS to buggery will solve anything. If we’ve learnt one thing over the past two decades its that a new terrorist group will be ready to step on if one has been destroyed. I don’t think appeasement is the answer and I didn’t say it was. The most experienced political and military minds on earth can’t find a solution easily so I’m ■■■■ sure I don’t know what the answer is. Well, I know one answer but one that won’t happen again- West backed Dictators in the style of Saddam and his relationship with the US. It almost makes one nostalgic for the days of Middle Eastern strong men Dictators!
GORDON 50:
cav551:
Andrew Neil on the Paris attack:Absolutely brilliant!
I’ve watched that so many times and it always leaves me thinking how much our countries have faced and got over and that we’ll do it this time like any other
Carryfast:
a bunch of mostly backward but often vicious nomads or tribes with an equally vicious religion
Its not the religion thats the problem though. Islam is not any more “vicious” than any other. Most muslims are peaceful and happy to get on with their lives.
Islam is actually no different from any other religion. If you take it too literally and twist enough of what it says then you can find justification for killing people who dont follow it.
What happens though is after every attack, you get the usual calls for banning islam, calling for muslims to be deported and all the rest of it and this leads to two things. It gives the radicals the excuse to twist it to young impressionable muslims that the world hates them so why not rise up and this is how it breeds and gets bigger. Secondly, it leads to actual hatred towards muslims and gives the likes of isis more ammo to proclaim that the world hates muslims (instead of the actual truth of it only being the radical ones who want to kill everyone)
Muslim councils dont exactly help matters though by not being more vocal in their condemnation and more interested in spouting all the hatred towards them that they get after these attacks
switchlogic:
Freight Dog:
switchlogic:
Fascinating how many people on this thread seem to want to turn our country into a war zone. The fact remains that you’re probably safer on the streets of London now than you were in 70s/80s/90s. Not all wars can be won and when the enemy is a huge range of lone operators fighting fire with fire would just lead to more carnage. There is no easy answer hereWell, for myself I was discussing whether Police should be armed. I’m not sure how this correlates to “wanting to turn the country into a war zone”. I wouldn’t say armed Policemen in Paris has turned the city into a war zone. How did you come to that conclusion?
Just to break it down. Ive read and always understood that the risks from these people will be primarily prevented as far as possible exactly is as they’re already doing - intelligence, investigation and reporting. I hope the continued under funding of the Police and services is halted so more resources can be given to this.
Police with firearms is for the last hole of the Swiss cheese when intelligence fails, not a preventive strategy. It’s to mitigate. You have to have efforts in place at every stage in case one fails. The fact is the security services have warned more attacks will be likely and they have said some will get through, as we have seen. In all the violent terrorist attacks in Europe it was firearms that were required to mitigate the situation.
Regarding current safety, dwelling on past safety levels disregards to the changing landscape of UK homeland security. Surely you have to be forward thinking, not reward looking or indulging in status quo.
To be fair if I was quoting you I’d have quoted you
To be fair, you didn’t type that quoting anyone so given you were talking about people on this thread it was case of take a pretty good guess 
switchlogic:
GORDON 50:
cav551:
Andrew Neil on the Paris attack:Absolutely brilliant!
I’ve watched that so many times and it always leaves me thinking how much our countries have faced and got over and that we’ll do it this time like any other
What happened in Westminster is a sideshow. The real issue is a continuing influx of a group that has clearly demonstrated by it’s actions that they have no intention of integrating and their greater ambition is the eradication of Jews, kuffars,infidels, in fact all who do not follow their ways. By continuing to allow their numbers to increase in this way combined with their higher birth rate than western society we are well on our way to abdicating our birth right. I don’t intend to let that happen. I have a son and grandchildren and this is THEIR country and WILL REMAIN SO. I don’t understand how you could not be concerned for your childrens future faced with the nazis of the 21st century.
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
You seem to be saying that you actually acknowledge that we’ve got a problem in the form of an immigration policy that has brought in a potentially hostile demographic.Which you also now realise probably has an issue of split loyalties in a massive part,if not all,of its ranks ?.The answer to that in your view is appeasement,put your head in the sand,carry on bringing in even more of it,rather than send it back home where it came from,and hope it will leave you alone and won’t bite you ?.When centuries of history tells you that it probably will.
While at the same time telling them that we are at war with ‘radical’ Islam.While also trusting ‘moderate’ Islam not to be using Taqiyya against us when all the evidence coming out of the mouths of their big bosses and the Sharia regime as it stands,in Saudi and Iran,is that they most certainly are.On that note if you really think that appeasement is the way to fix all this then at least do it properly.By stopping bombing ‘ISIS’ and saying that all further attacks will be dealt with by negotiation and un armed police winning hearts and minds rather than shooting them .
Yes, we do have a problem. But I don’t think bombing ISIS to buggery will solve anything. If we’ve learnt one thing over the past two decades its that a new terrorist group will be ready to step on if one has been destroyed. I don’t think appeasement is the answer and I didn’t say it was. The most experienced political and military minds on earth can’t find a solution easily so I’m ■■■■ sure I don’t know what the answer is. Well, I know one answer but one that won’t happen again- West backed Dictators in the style of Saddam and his relationship with the US. It almost makes one nostalgic for the days of Middle Eastern strong men Dictators!
Whatever the answer continuing with the open door immigration/citizenship policy that has brought Jihad into the country rather than reversing it obviously isn’t it.Nor does continuing to allow the Saudi Wahabbist and Iranian Shia Sharia regimes to flourish,while pretending to be at war with ‘radical’ Islam,doesn’t seem like the most experienced military minds are even looking for a ‘solution’ let alone implementing it.More like knowingly following a diversionary agenda like the operations in Iraq and Afghanistan were/are.
Make no mistake there’s some weird agenda within an agenda going on here and things will only get worse until we find out why the Western governments seem to be complicit and in collusion with obvious Saudi and Iranian Jihadism and infiltration of Europe.Flooding Europe with Middle Eastern so called ‘refugees’ ( mostly young men of fighting age ) and knowingly allowing,let alone supporting, radical Saudi wahabbist and Iranian shia Islam to infiltrate Europe,all being part of that plan which needs to be explained and stopped.
When the Western governments at this point would have been expected to take out the Saudi and Iranian regimes and disarm the Middle East and keep the problem out of our own back yard.Not continue to appease them.Let alone continuing to arm the Middle East to the teeth and bringing Islam and with it Jihad here. 
On that note if cutting off the head of the snake is the aim then taking out Saudi and Iran and disarming them is the way to do that.I’d guess at which point Turkey will show its true colours too.
Instead of which all we see is the continuing resistance to and defiance of Trump’s electoral mandate in that regard and the already minimal cut to the bone military we’ve got now being sent on another diversionary wild goose chase in Eastern Europe.This time trying to pick a fight with Russia. 
The-Snowman:
Carryfast:
a bunch of mostly backward but often vicious nomads or tribes with an equally vicious religionIts not the religion thats the problem though. Islam is not any more “vicious” than any other. Most muslims are peaceful and happy to get on with their lives.
Islam is actually no different from any other religion. If you take it too literally and twist enough of what it says then you can find justification for killing people who dont follow it.
What happens though is after every attack, you get the usual calls for banning islam, calling for muslims to be deported and all the rest of it and this leads to two things. It gives the radicals the excuse to twist it to young impressionable muslims that the world hates them so why not rise up and this is how it breeds and gets bigger. Secondly, it leads to actual hatred towards muslims and gives the likes of isis more ammo to proclaim that the world hates muslims (instead of the actual truth of it only being the radical ones who want to kill everyone)
Muslim councils dont exactly help matters though by not being more vocal in their condemnation and more interested in spouting all the hatred towards them that they get after these attacks
I’ve often thought about the silence of countries like Saudi Arabia as well as the muslim councils, after an attack, they could all do so much more…why aren’t they?
The next attack is inevitable. You can’t stop the next attack without making the attacker’s entire faction illegal.
Not prepared to do that? - They can attack us with impunity then. Since they end up dead each time at the end of each attack, then unlike the old IRA bombings where the bomber wanted to get away and survive, these guys are quite happy to be blown away once they’d sown their mayhem in public.
Home Grown, and “known to be violent” by the police. And this guy wasn’t “in the center of an enquiry?”
FFS That’s like saying "We only look at Osama Bin Laden, and ignore his 100 close henchmen, 1000 extended family members, 10,000 trained-up attendees of the training camps, 100,000 people displaced by the latest NATO bombing campaign, 1,000,000 converts to Islam last year, and 10,000,000 people in each whole country that hate the guts of everything “Western”…
It’s time for western governments to make up their minds. Our enemy is either Islamic State or Islam Itself. If it’s the former - get boots on the ground, make a coalition that involves Putin and doesn’t involve Turkey (who are to Islamic State what Sinn Fein are to the IRA) - and make it quick, shock-and-awe total wipe out. Bugger human rights. Even each kid left alive - is tomorrow’s replacement Jihadist.
There are no innocents any more. 
Meanwhile stateside, The Republicans don’t seem very keen to rubber-stamp anything of Trump’s right now.
They used him to get into government, and now they’re not even going to let him carry out flagship policies. Trump is going to have to grow up fast as a “Rookie Politician” that he is.
He can use the next mainland Islamist terror attack to purge the intelligence agencies (for letting it through) purge the judiciary (for blocking his travel ban) and purge the republican party (for not backing supposedly their president) They might as well be the Snowflake opposition.
I don’t want to hear from our security and intelligence services that they have got radicalised or jihadi supporters on their radar, and are observing them. That is a reactive stategy - yes maybe they have been successful so far in foiling major planned incidents - but that is not enough. They need to do more than that and be far, far more proactive; they should be rounding these people up, destroying any ‘British’ passports and putting them on the next 'plane to mecca, where they can be welcomed with open arms by similar thinking people, so they can experience the benefits of life living in Shangri-La under their precious sharia law.
What happened in Westminster is a sideshow. The real issue is a continuing influx of a group that has clearly demonstrated by it’s actions that they have no intention of integrating and their greater ambition is the eradication of Jews, kuffars,infidels, in fact all who do not follow their ways. By continuing to allow their numbers to increase in this way combined with their higher birth rate than western society we are well on our way to abdicating our birth right. I don’t intend to let that happen. I have a son and grandchildren and this is THEIR country and WILL REMAIN SO. I don’t understand how you could not be concerned for your childrens future faced with the nazis of the 21st century.
[/quote]
+1
its called WHITE GENOCIDE. this country and other white countries are being swamped from far and wide by various muslim and interbred mongrels of various parentage.whites are being bred out of existance by your average muslim equivelant and its only a matter of time before we are a minority so small itl make no difference especially with non white mayors and politicians running the uk.if the japs were pouring into china at the same rate,it would be world war 3 ,same if the beef links were pouring into somewhere else…the world would be in an uproar.but because its non whites swamping whites with idiots like merkle and may at the reins letting them overrun us,then you can forget your grandkids having any say in anything as they will be they will be of no importance once the muslim balance sways well into their majority.ive left the sinking ship and moved to the land that time forgot,il be dead before its anything like the uk now.
funny how they seem to be in the majority for running the petrol stations and post offices as the norm nowadays??
Winseer:
Meanwhile stateside, The Republicans don’t seem very keen to rubber-stamp anything of Trump’s right now.
They used him to get into government, and now they’re not even going to let him carry out flagship policies. Trump is going to have to grow up fast as a “Rookie Politician” that he is.
He can use the next mainland Islamist terror attack to purge the intelligence agencies (for letting it through) purge the judiciary (for blocking his travel ban) and purge the republican party (for not backing supposedly their president) They might as well be the Snowflake opposition.
It all seems like part of the same agenda that supports the Saudi regime and flooding Europe with an Islamic demographic and potential Jihadists and looking after those already here.In this case the now you see them Presidential powers of Obama when it suited it and suddenly the now you don’t see them,non existent,Presidential powers of so called ‘President’ Trump when it doesn’t.In which case we had the double standard of Obama being able to do what he liked all supposedly as part of his Presidential remit while now Trump seems to need Congressional approval for everything.Realistically the Farage vote here and the Trump vote there has no democratic representation even when that vote actually gets its representative into so called power.
Which leaves the obvious question in all that being,with Trump’s pre election position regards Russia and Islamic immigration policy,how is it that the US has made no move in NATO to stop British aggressive posturing towards Russia in Estonia.While,what should be,Trump’s unarguable executive ‘powers’,regards foreign policy,seem to have suddenly evaporated when it came to his stated US Islamic immigration policy.
Scary times in which the direction which our respective governments are taking seems to be totally out of our democratic control.In which we’re likely to find ourselves in a war on three fronts.At home v the internal Jihadist threat,in Eastern Europe v Russia who’ll probably break the NATO line in 48 hours and NATO unbelievably being the aggressor in this case,and in the Middle East when we’ll suddenly be presented with a united Shia and Wahabbist invasion,including Turkey,heading our way.Having somehow and for some reason also been set up by our own Western governments. No surprise that one of the signs seems to be that our own squaddies seem to be voting with their feet and the government coming out with loads of diversionary excuses to explain it.When it isn’t difficult to understand that no one with any sense wants to throw their life away in a yet another pointless under funded fight for the wrong reasons in the wrong place.
Doing the jobs that the white Brits don’t want to do …
cav551:
I don’t want to hear from our security and intelligence services that they have got radicalised or jihadi supporters on their radar, and are observing them. That is a reactive stategy - yes maybe they have been successful so far in foiling major planned incidents - but that is not enough. They need to do more than that and be far, far more proactive; they should be rounding these people up, destroying any ‘British’ passports and putting them on the next 'plane to mecca, where they can be welcomed with open arms by similar thinking people, so they can experience the benefits of life living in Shangri-La under their precious sharia law.
Interesting idea but just not possible, international law gets in the way. You can’t simply make someone stateless nor can they go round locking people up because they ‘might’ do something.
switchlogic:
cav551:
I don’t want to hear from our security and intelligence services that they have got radicalised or jihadi supporters on their radar, and are observing them. That is a reactive stategy - yes maybe they have been successful so far in foiling major planned incidents - but that is not enough. They need to do more than that and be far, far more proactive; they should be rounding these people up, destroying any ‘British’ passports and putting them on the next 'plane to mecca, where they can be welcomed with open arms by similar thinking people, so they can experience the benefits of life living in Shangri-La under their precious sharia law.Interesting idea but just not possible, international law gets in the way. You can’t simply make someone stateless nor can they go round locking people up because they ‘might’ do something.
There’s nothing in international law that says a country can’t apply a general or selective definition of citizenship based on jus sanguinis and deport them on that basis such as in the case of being a threat to national security.That’s actually what happened in the case of Bin Laden being chucked out of Saudi.Although probably in that case more because he was a threat to the regime,or blowing the Saudi agenda of using Taqiyya to meet its aims,than him being too radical for them.IE realistically the solution to the problem would be more like a deportation based one not internment.The fact is if these nutters do succeed in doing something big let alone on a sustained multiple basis the government won’t be able to hold back the calls for drastic action along those lines anyway.So why wait for more casualties instead of getting on with the job.
switchlogic:
cav551:
I don’t want to hear from our security and intelligence services that they have got radicalised or jihadi supporters on their radar, and are observing them. That is a reactive stategy - yes maybe they have been successful so far in foiling major planned incidents - but that is not enough. They need to do more than that and be far, far more proactive; they should be rounding these people up, destroying any ‘British’ passports and putting them on the next 'plane to mecca, where they can be welcomed with open arms by similar thinking people, so they can experience the benefits of life living in Shangri-La under their precious sharia law.Interesting idea but just not possible, international law gets in the way. You can’t simply make someone stateless nor can they go around locking people up because they ‘might’ do something.
Simple we change the laws to enable us to do this, If they go to train & fight in another country they should not be allowed to return here end of without exception, personally i would take it a step further and remove their immediate families too, thought times call for tough measures and the rest of the eu should be doing the same
And when the looney left nutjobs start squealing about their human rights, we tell them that our human rights are more important and the government needs to grow a spine and do what is should be doing and protect it’s citizens from scum like this
switchlogic:
Fascinating how many people on this thread seem to want to turn our country into a war zone. The fact remains that you’re probably safer on the streets of London now than you were in 70s/80s/90s. Not all wars can be won and when the enemy is a huge range of lone operators fighting fire with fire would just lead to more carnage. There is no easy answer here
There already is , Antwerp, Italy Lille France , these attacks aren’t lone wolf attacks but part of a network, they have just changed tact, but if you wish to believe what the controlled lame stream media tell you that is your choice
OVLOV JAY:
Two people who won’t be shouted down by the left. Not many strong voices left from the centre right unfortunately
well they are trying to do exactly that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bnQrajRfTM