Auto or Manual ?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
81

Terry T:

DoubleQ:
and you can change gear while your stationary :wink:

Drove I-Shift, Powershift and Opticruise. I think they all allow changing gear while stationary.

Not if its still changing down when you come to a halt.
( ie the box is still between gears, displaying 7 > 1 etc )

Not that I want to knock the Scanie ( cos it easyly the best BOX, cos it has a cluch )

But I did have to take two stabs at the climb out of “Mr Crappers’s” yard 39T MASS
( would have been 44T Mass, but the Compost I loaded was dry !!)

In auto, The gear box just couldnt react fast enought
then proceeded to sellect a gear that was far to low.

resort: Lost momentum, Drive axle lost traction (slip’ing & kicking up the dirt ).

Leaving feeling darn silly, less than 2 lenghts from reaching Terra-firma.

Not that the Tractor had a lack of horse’s, 480 was plently
The gear box programming just didnt understand the situation
The only option was to take a run, and gun it up there [locked] in 5th gear

If Id had a manual box:
I KNOW i could have Block-Changed, and made it 1st try.

Info Crapper’s Yard:
if you never been there its down a Rutted Dirt Track,
off the B4042 between Midgehill Copse & Callow Hill
when East bound on the M4, you can see it on the left about 2 miles before J16
The track is steepest at the road end, about 1 in 6

So, My VOTE is most deffinatly for a MANUAL BOX every time.

de 2xQ

PS: control while reversing onto most RCD bays is made easy, as its usually downhill
just get it lined up, let the rig roll, and control your speed using the brakes :laughing:

82

bazstan009:

Scanner:

bazstan009:

Scanner:
Auto’s are less safe than manuals in all sorts of situations. Hill starts when heavily loaded, the ability to select reverse without a lockout device, (not all versions) snatchiness when manoeuvering etc etc.

Don’t see how an auto is less safe on a heavy hill start, still has hand brake! Not yet found a situation that was less safe or more difficult with an auto.
It may depend a bit on the box, there are autos and autos but there are also manuals and manuals. It seems to me that the control that some feel lacking is the ability to slip the clutch!

Its less safe because the driver has less control.

What do you mean by “the ability to slip the clutch”?

What is it exactly that the driver cannot control? you and others keep saying they have more control with a manual box but I just don’t get it.
I have a magnum 07 with volvo engine and box (optidrive), I can change up, I can change down and I can crawl, the box will only force a change on me if I am doing something destructive!
So my point earlier was that the only thing the driver of a manual can do that I cant is slip the clutch (someone well tell be how to do that now). As luke suggested driving an auto is a different skill that is dependant on finer throttle control.
As for the hill start, any one that rolls back can only blame there inability.

Ever tried changing a ZF down to the gear you need to pull away, only to find it getting confused and throwing a big strop, leaving you in no gear at all?

Ever changed down at the start of a hill to find the box changing up, only to change down again half way up?

Ever lost momentum in slippery conditions because the box just has to change down and can’t do it fast enough?

The hill start comment is just childish and shows a lack of real-world experience.

83

I would say some of the complaints about auto boxes are valid ,and it relates to the early ones Most manufacturers have tweaked the software over the years and no one should have issues with the current crop of boxes ,clutch control has improved 1000 fold…Depending on what you order you will generally have the manual option…You will always have people who no matter how good they are will say they are crap,same as you get those who reckon the EATON was the bees knees.Each to their own and everyone is entitled to their opinion…As time goes on more and more manufacturers give the auto as standard ,and you have to specify a manual.And no doubt the time will come when gearbox manufacturers will scale back manual production,and autos will become cheaper as manuals then become more expensive

84

bazstan009:
As luke suggested driving an auto is a different skill that is dependant on finer throttle control.

“Fine Throttle control” , yep aggree ( in the right situation ):

But go try using that tecnic while clawing your way out of Crapper’s :unamused:

re: Auto / Manual
Cant see the day when a simple linkage with a stick on the top,
Will be more expensive to produce and less expensive to maintain:

Than a pneumatic control system ( with a computer brain )
and half a hundred electrical connections for moisture and dirt to penitrate
(and clause havock).

PS:

norb:
You will always have people who no matter how good they are will say they are crap,same as you get those who reckon the EATON was the bees knees.

Nar, the Eaton was an a*s of a gearbox to learn,

But it faithfully did what you told it to do…

Thats my last word on the subject…

85

bet I can get you to reply…when you think of how we have done away with other mechanical manual control system,it throttle pedal…I do think it is a matter of time till they do away with the manul box,manufacturers are pushing the auto box,and I think with some manufacturers the auto is outselling the manual ,Then you hit the situation where drivers will only ever have driven an auto box,and a manual with splitter and range will confuse them,Also with the CAN network taking over everything then why leave the gearbox out…Don’t get me wrong I love manual boxes ,mainly due to the amount of internal repairs I have to carry out on them…

Trucks of the future will be so different ,they are looking at electronic systems where they can get rid of the compressor to save weight
etc

86

norb:
snip: cos it already been said

Trucks of the future will be so different ,they are looking at electronic systems where they can get rid of the compressor to save weight
etc

Yer, and it could work realy well.

manufacturers just need to slove the problems of Electric’s not being happy
when Dirt & Mositure ingresses into the connections.

After resently driving a 12 plated tractor, that was giving numerious fase alerts.
( including telling me the trailer ABS was’nt working, when it clearly WAS )

I think they got a way to go yet.

87

got a reply :smiley: I totally agree they do have a long way to go to sort out the the current issues ,but alas that won’t stop knorr bremse and wabco etc playing with braking and suspension systems…yep I did say earlier truck manufacturers ,so I apologise for that :frowning:

88

My old Foden Alpha had the gear stick as fitted to the Twin Splitters; I used to have arguments with people when they looked in and said “argh…Twin Splitter.” No it wasn’t, it was a bog standard synchchromesh 12 speed range/splitter setup. Bloody slow at changing (not as bad as a Daf 8 speed though), thank God I had a Cat engine to make up for the delay.
Much as I loved the old Foden 4000 series with crash 'box, nowadays I’ll choose a Volvo FMX with I shift for tipper work.

89

I have enjoyed reading the pro and cons of auto v manual etc …and my next point is not aimed at anybody as I do not know any of you so don’t take it personel.In the 17 years that I have been repairing gearboxes ZF , for my sins .The majority of repairs on the 16 /8 speed boxes are down to driver abuse…This has generally come from ZF rejecting warranty claims,which through the years and with ZF rejection pics I have got to know …I have been to meet the ZF warranty guy who rejected items I had sent , as he ha said no fault found .took me 5 secs to show him the failure and he then agreed with me .So like us all they are not perfect…But truth be told most failure is down to driver abuse…I had a driver who crashed every gear ,yet when I drove the vehicle ,and he was in the passenger seat ,the box was faultless…needless to say it was back 3 weeks later trashed ,he may have wanted to prove a point but it cost his company

90

norb:
I have enjoyed reading the pro and cons of auto v manual etc …and my next point is not aimed at anybody as I do not know any of you so don’t take it personel.In the 17 years that I have been repairing gearboxes ZF , for my sins .The majority of repairs on the 16 /8 speed boxes are down to driver abuse…This has generally come from ZF rejecting warranty claims,which through the years and with ZF rejection pics I have got to know …I have been to meet the ZF warranty guy who rejected items I had sent , as he ha said no fault found .took me 5 secs to show him the failure and he then agreed with me .So like us all they are not perfect…But truth be told most failure is down to driver abuse…I had a driver who crashed every gear ,yet when I drove the vehicle ,and he was in the passenger seat ,the box was faultless…needless to say it was back 3 weeks later trashed ,he may have wanted to prove a point but it cost his company

Never driven a 16 speed ZF that had a problem, but every single 8 speed one i ever used had 5th gear hanging out of it. Now it could be down to drivers beating the range-change and/or the synchro, but it seems strange that it was always ZF’s and they were always in DAF’s. Never seen a similar problem with any other manual box apart from a Twin Splitter that someone had actually managed to break, that was also in a DAF.

Sorry, that is apart from the old Scania range-change. That was down to people leaving them in low range when switched off.

91

interesting what you say ,the 8 speed and 16 speed are basically identical,the 8 speed is couple of inches shorter in length…and doesn’t have a splitter …the mainshaft is shorter ,but the part number for 1st 2nd 3rd 4th are the same for both boxes…3rd /4th synchros mainly 3rd are chocolate which is 7th 8th in high .Though they can be tight when cold,generally filling the box with engine oil can cure it …I used to fined the Scania 3 series,i don’t think they have bettered it as a vehicle had an very slow range change ,but hat is only my opinion as a mechanic as obviously I don’t put the miles on trucks as drivers ,I only look at the ease of fixing them …and I will say DAF are very mechanic friendly

92

auto always

93

I like autos and the only manual I get excited about is a daf zf 16 speed, now that is a beautiful gearbox.

the ishift is the best by far and the rest are only ok, the as tronic is ok but as said it can be a bit all or nothing going backwards.

94

I drove a Volvo FE 18t full auto the other week. It was either full throttle or nothing whilst starting to reverse/ creep forward. :confused:

95

I remember driving an 05plate FM with an IShift box when it was fairly new. What sticks in my mind was how good the clutch control was,how it was always in the right gear at roundabouts etc and how quick the year changes were. How come nearly 8 years later, DAF, MAN ,Iveco etc still haven’t got anything even close to that. Fair enough they don’t make their own gearboxes. ZF make them, so you’d think a company that specialises in transmition systems would have sussed it by now.

96

time ill tell ,but th softwear on the EURO 6 DAF AS Tonic is meant to be up to I- shift .but as I said time will tell

97

jessicas dad:
I like autos and the only manual I get excited about is a daf zf 16 speed, now that is a beautiful gearbox

I agree it’s the best of the ZFs, after driving a 6wheeler which strangely had one fitted.

98

are all Volvo automatics I-shift or is it only on certain models?

99

jay0:
are all Volvo automatics I-shift or is it only on certain models?

HELLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOO :open_mouth:

100

jay0:
are all Volvo automatics I-shift or is it only on certain models?

I think the lighter end of their range (FE and FL) has a transmission called ISync and the heavy end (FM and FH) has IShift.