Monday, coming down the A1 from Co.Durham, traffic was very slow moving , in the distance I could see an Army tank transporter, as I got closer, there were 4 of them in convoy, all crawling along…
My question is this, all were carrying tanks, that were a lot wider than the flat bed trailer, all though they had flashing beacons, there were no red/white outside marker boards and no wide load signs etc. Are they exempt?
What was more scary was the lead vehicle was being driven by a lad of about 18yrs. The truck was all over the road, causing cars and trucks alike to swerve to avoid him.
It can’t be right that an unexperienced driver can be allowed to do this? I know we all have to get experience, but we do start in cars 1st and work our way up.
i was an raf driver but just like many army drivers we had more training than most civvies. ie. class 3 at 18, class 1 at 20 and a pcv at 21. plus numerous other courses. load restraint, maintenence etc etc.
it is also a fact that any employer would take on an ex army driver especilly if he /she was a driver by trade.
i cannot comment on this particular driver who looked 18 but was probably 21.
he might have been having a bad day like every driver has had.
and no under normal circumstances the army/navy/airforce are not exempt the rules covering wide loads.
Firstly wide load markers etc.
The new Oshkosh transporters with the seven or nine axle Andover (Goldhefer) trailer are STGO Cat 3 vehicles and do not operate under construction and use The regulations for wide load markers are under construction and use regs so in theory a STGO vehile doesn’t need to comply.
However STGO regs do require that wide loads are lit and clearly marked. Most STGO operators mark STGO loads in line with C&Uregs. Common sense really.
As to 18yr olds driving true they have very little experience, however the military driving training courses for a Class A trade are a hell of a lot longer and far more detailed than a 2 week course in a ford cargo with 20ft box trailer, which is all you need to drive STGO vehicles. So in fact that 18yr old has proabbly spent a fair while as a crewman on that vehicle learning how to handle it under supervision of a more experienced driver and has far more training than most STGO drivers.
As to “snaking” any driver who has driven trailers with positive steered axles will tell you that snaking occurs normally due to lack of hydraulic pressure and sometimes because the load is not quite centred and occassionally because you are going too fast for the hydraulics to respond.
hi mate, i would say that they are under the same regulations as you and i whilst out on the road.because they are in the army does not give them the right to disrespect the law.i for one have never done wide loads and don’t intend to either,but i would think that they would have to have the appropriate markings up to warn other drivers of the width of the loads being carried.others on the forum will help you out with the rights and wrongs of markings on wide or long loads.as for them being 18year olds the army unlike civvies can take there class one test at the age of 18,i’m not saying it’s right but that’s how it is. but if that young lad leaves he would not get a class one job out here.in the forces you have guys like the royal engineers especially the mechanics who fix there vehicles. they must be able to road test after it has been repaired etc,if they don’t have class one then they can’t do this.also i think you’ll find if it’s a war situation then these young lads will be needed to transport the tanks and other vehicles around especially up and around the front line where the tanks will be needed.
dave:
it is also a fact that any employer would take on an ex army driver especilly if he /she was a driver by trade.
With the driver shortage in some places the fact you have a HGV licence and can get into the truck is enough. My experience of ex-forces drivers is that although they are well trained in theory, they don’t have the practical haulage experience, but love telling you how to do the job even if you have been doing it for over 10 years.
dave:
it is also a fact that any employer would take on an ex army driver especilly if he /she was a driver by trade.
With the driver shortage in some places the fact you have a HGV licence and can get into the truck is enough. My experience of ex-forces drivers is that although they are well trained in theory, they don’t have the practical haulage experience, but love telling you how to do the job even if you have been doing it for over 10 years.
Sounds about right !
Personally I have little time for them (broadly speaking, there are the odd one or two exceptions of course).
dave:
i was an raf driver but just like many army drivers we had more training than most civvies. ie. class 3 at 18, class 1 at 20 and a pcv at 21. plus numerous other courses. load restraint, maintenence etc etc.
it is also a fact that any employer would take on an ex army driver especilly if he /she was a driver by trade.
i cannot comment on this particular driver who looked 18 but was probably 21.
he might have been having a bad day like every driver has had.
and no under normal circumstances the army/navy/airforce are not exempt the rules covering wide loads.
Correct me if im wrong but in the forces you are ‘cannon fodder’ FIRST & then you trade train??
Civvy drivers may not have full ADR incl. radioactive, PSV, forklift & sundry other ‘tickets’ that are thrown at forces personnel but the majority of civvy drivers can run rings around ex forces personnel who choose to utilise the licences they are ‘given’
dave:
it is also a fact that any employer would take on an ex army driver especilly if he /she was a driver by trade.
With the driver shortage in some places the fact you have a HGV licence and can get into the truck is enough. My experience of ex-forces drivers is that although they are well trained in theory, they don’t have the practical haulage experience, but love telling you how to do the job even if you have been doing it for over 10 years.
Sounds about right !
Personally I have little time for them (broadly speaking, there are the odd one or two exceptions of course).
no practical haulage experience
are you refering about ex royal corps transport or royal logistics corps or ex mechanical transport drivers. no experience, you make me laugh.
you might be getting mixed up the numerous other people who came out the forces and took a class 1 as a resettlement course but a military driver by trade does have far more experince than most.
many years doing different jobs all to do with driving, different vehicles and not just trucks, different countries and not just europe.
beats 10 years experience delivering to supermarkets rdc,s anyday
dave:
it is also a fact that any employer would take on an ex army driver especilly if he /she was a driver by trade.
With the driver shortage in some places the fact you have a HGV licence and can get into the truck is enough. My experience of ex-forces drivers is that although they are well trained in theory, they don’t have the practical haulage experience, but love telling you how to do the job even if you have been doing it for over 10 years.
Sounds about right !
Personally I have little time for them (broadly speaking, there are the odd one or two exceptions of course).
Just as a point of interest…the founder of this site (Rikki) is ex-RCT and got his Class 1 at the tender age of 19…and hasn’t done too bad since…
We dont all push trolleys out at RDC’s either!
What about the convoys then? different coloured flags, whole lot goes at the speed of the slowest…sorry but thats follow the leader, trained monkeys can do that.
OK so there are certain things that RCT (RLC now) drivers get properly trained in [ instance… reasonable grounding for low loader work…notice I say ‘grounding’] but it doesnt make them head & shoulders above civvy drivers, plenty go to a haulage firm for a job giving it the big I AM & rapidly make a right royal prat of themselves.
Living where I do, there are plenty of ex raf with more licences than they know what to do with, its fairly honest to say that the only people that rate them is agencies (only because they match licences / customer requirements on paper.
Tell me this, just how often did you have to fill in a tacho chart in the forces?
There is a difference & we civvy drivers are a damned sight better / more skilled than you seem to think.
Cav203k:
(broadly speaking, there are the odd one or two exceptions of course).
Just as a point of interest…the founder of this site (Rikki) is ex-RCT and got his Class 1 at the tender age of 19…and hasn’t done too bad since…
Please re-read my post, see disclaimer (not only inserted so I could hide behind it sniggering but also so those sensitive souls who think they truly are the puppies privates can THINK it was meant to include them ) . Also… re-read Muckles post, surely Rikki doesnt only talk a good [zb] (I never mentioned him, you did)
Hand over the shovel LucyR, you dont need to dig any more
Its not just RDC work you know, most small general haulage companies round here will do anything, if somebody wants it moved and it fits on a trailer (or doesn’t in some cases ) then they will take the job and you turn up and look at it and start thinking how the [zb] am I going to get this on, I could refuse it I suppose, but then agian I like a challenge and if I wanted an easy life I could haul pallets to RDC’s and complain about the waiting time.
I apologise for the generalisation, just because you are military trained it doesn’t mean you can’t do the job as a civvy and as has been said there are many skills that are useful.
I have recently started doing a bit of low loader work and the bloke who has been showing me the ropes (or chains) is ex-army and knows his stuff. (well I hope he does as I am doing the job the way he has shown me )
However I have noticed an attitude with many ex-military drivers that because they were trained in the military they are better than us civvies, but not everything can be done the same way the Army did it and if I’ve been doing the job longer than them and have the experience it would make sense to listen to me when I suggest that it would be better to do it this way.
I detect the following from some posters on this thread :
Potatoes on shoulders.
Some nerve touching and
I-am-holier-than-you…
Going off on a tangient, what is the necessity to drive everywhere with the full beam on at full tilt come day, night, rain, snow, shine etc
And also… as “professional” drivers ( ) why do they insist on driving at 50mph getting under everyone’s feet but not content at that, why drive with a 200yd gap between all their mates thus making it a nightmare to overtake the [zb]
I’d be happy if they carted their tanks and associated gear on the back of a Herc, C17 or (hired) C5 to be perfectly honest
Going off on a tangient, what is the necessity to drive everywhere with the full beam on at full tilt come day, night, rain, snow, shine etc
And also… as “professional” drivers ( ) why do they insist on driving at 50mph getting under everyone’s feet but not content at that, why drive with a 200yd gap between all their mates thus making it a nightmare to overtake the [zb]
They drive with their lights on in convoy because that is the rule, at least so the drivers can see those behind them easily.
They drive at 50mph, once again because that is the rule, and have you ever tried driving the average army issue wagon any faster, they mostly have cross country tyres on, so don’t have the roadholding that normal tyres have.
How would you like them to all bunch up nice and close to each other, then you would have to pass them in one looooong lump, very nice I’m sure for other road users. They drive with a distance between each vehicle to facilitate overtaking by other vehicles, also, they don’t have cruise control or powerful engines like us.
Going off on a tangient, what is the necessity to drive everywhere with the full beam on at full tilt come day, night, rain, snow, shine etc
And also… as “professional” drivers ( ) why do they insist on driving at 50mph getting under everyone’s feet but not content at that, why drive with a 200yd gap between all their mates thus making it a nightmare to overtake the [zb]
They drive with their lights on in convoy because that is the rule, at least so the drivers can see those behind them easily.
They drive at 50mph, once again because that is the rule, and have you ever tried driving the average army issue wagon any faster, they mostly have cross country tyres on, so don’t have the roadholding that normal tyres have.
How would you like them to all bunch up nice and close to each other, then you would have to pass them in one looooong lump, very nice I’m sure for other road users. They drive with a distance between each vehicle to facilitate overtaking by other vehicles, also, they don’t have cruise control or powerful engines like us.
Re your last sentence I think that they cause more trouble than they prevent. It certainly doesn’t help the traffic flow from what I’ve seen. It’s a case of the first wagon pulls out, passes, pulls in just as the wagon following has pulled out and when he’s passed and starts pulling in the front one starts pulling out to overtake the next one. All that happens is the dozey car drivers just sit confused in the middle lane slowing down and generally getting under your feet more than normal preventing the wagons pulling out to pass which causes much more of a hold-up than if they stuck close together and you pass them all in one go. If they’re only doing 50mph then it isn’t going to take long to pass them is it If there’s 5 vehicles in total and they’re all 200yds apart then you’re talking a good 5 minutes per truck [zb] about pulling in and out.
The vehicles might have off road tyres on them but I’ve had those Army/RAF/whatever jeeps come flying past me at 70ish before.
, in the distance I could see an Army tank transporter, as I got closer, there were 4 of them in convoy, all crawling along… 
) then they will take the job and you turn up and look at it and start thinking how the [zb] am I going to get this on, I could refuse it I suppose, but then agian I like a challenge and if I wanted an easy life I could haul pallets to RDC’s and complain about the waiting time.
