Hand over the shovel LucyR, you dont need to dig any more :lol
Just pointing the fact out before he did…these ex-squaddies can get very defensive, especially a few pints down…and i couldn’t cope with the flak if I had to edit him!!! 
kitkat:
Cav203k:
Just make them stay ‘off road’ like horses should be, no more problemsjust a
cav did you get a knock back from the military or is it that you just don’t like them
No, I never had the wish to become one of them, no sour grapes here Kitkat 
As for horses, the french have the right idea with them (they are just cows with skinny legs).
LucyR, I wont pursue your last post with the comment I was going to…suffice to say ex-warriors dont bother me in the slightest (serving ones dont either)
cav, all i 'll say to you is this. don’t tar every ex-squaddie with the same brush. we are not all the same. i have never been one that says i can do it better than anyone.but i do see where your coming from, i know plenty of ex squaddies and serving ones that think they can do it better than you or i.it’s breeded into them from day one in training and constantly through there career in the military.it all depends on how you adapt yourself through life.although some of these squaddies come out with certificates for this,that and the other it does not mean that they are good at the job. it just means that they have done the course.and some squaddies will spend there life in the force getting these certificate’s and course’s behind them.it makes them look good to there commanding officer and fellow squaddies.these guys are looking for promotion and they will do anything to get it.plus they think it look’s good on there c.v. when they apply for a job outside,they soon get caught out when they get a job,because they probably never done the job since they got there certificate. so cav if i was you i would not even bother yourself with these type of squaddies,as long as you are confident with your own capabilities and you know what your capabilties are,then let these guys hang themselves when they get the opportunity to do the job.i better add this is not aimmed at all ex -military,it’s like life itself you always get a small amount who think there better than everyone else. it’s them i refer to.
Yes Kitkat, I fully agree with what you are saying, there are some (not just squaddies, raf too) that are as good as the [zb] they talk, I have picked up the pieces far too many times after the ones that are incompetent hence my lack of confidence in them as a whole & yes I am guilty of tarring them all with the same brush (just as society in general considers all drivers to be fat & stupid…which most of us are not).
As for knowing my own capabilities, I may come across as conceited but I am good at what I do & take pride in the quality of my work [ no I do not think I’m better than everyone else but have to admit that I am intolerant of fools]
It has got to be about time this thread got put to bed…unless anyone else has an input
I was in the Royal Engineers, already had my car licence but they won’t let you drive anything unless you get a “ticket”… remember clearly taking a “test” which consisted of driving a Land Rover slowly over a really bumpy field full of massive ditches & holes etc.
Drove up the hill & came back down whilst being instructed by one of the RCT Staff Sgts to get into as many of these ditches etc as possible thus demonstrating the use of gears, 4 wheel drive etc. "Test took approx 5 mins. Got back down to the gate & was passed! Hooray!
Another “Test” was for our Terexes & other smaller plant. Jumped in Terex, lifted up shovel, dropped shovel back down, drove around the garages for about 2 minutes & passed again! Yippee!
Drove in convoy a few times after exercises but never ever drove any kind of plant even though I had all relevant tickets.
My regiment was a bridging unit and I did think seriously about transferring to the RCT unit in our squadron, not out of interest in driving but solely for the fact that whenever we were on exercise those lazy gits were sitting in their motors drinking tea, smoking ■■■■ & generally having a grand old time waiting for something to break down while the rest of us were getting a right beasting building bridges & taking them down again!
Remember one night up in Stirling, pouring rain all day & night, we’re sticking a bridge over the river & take it back down etc… about 3 am, we’re all soaked, freezing etc, RCT gits are sleeping in their motors nice & warm & cosy. Couple of red smoke flares in with them woke them up a bit! Everyone standing around watching these guys bailing out of their wagons in their underpants coughing & spluttering, cheered us up no end! Even our RSM was creasing himself!
Great days! But if I had to do it again, I’d join the RCT!
Cheers!
TP
Glad to see you lot are giving squaddies and flyboys all the grief, and leaving us ex-matelots alone! I did my Class 2 in 1978, and my Class 1 and PCV in 2000. Spent nearly 34 years driving submarines from 2000 to 17000 tons around and only hit the bottom once (the Navigator forgot to check the depth of water underneath when he ordered a depth change). Have spent the last 3 and half years driving busses and wag and drag and just recently started artic work. My own view on ex-army and RAF drivers is that their service time was spent as drivers, so if someone leaves in their mid twenties and starts to drive as a civvy, they have probably got at least five years experience on the road. All they need to learn outside are the trivialities such as tacho regs, drivers hours, meeting deadlines, keeping the boss happy, finding somewhere in the middle of town in the rush hour etc etc. The Navy tend to use civvy drivers, so I had to start from scratch, so I am still on a steep learning curve.
LucyR, I wont pursue your last post with the comment I was going to…suffice to say ex-warriors dont bother me in the slightest (serving ones dont either)
Glad to hear it…they do me…especially when I’ve a) got to live with them and b) am relying on them for a lift to work!!! 
Cav203k:
[Correct me if I’m wrong but in the forces you are ‘cannon fodder’ FIRST & then you trade train??
Civvy drivers may not have full ADR incl. radioactive, PSV, forklift & sundry other ‘tickets’ that are thrown at forces personnel but the majority of civvy drivers can run rings around ex forces personnel who choose to utilise the licences they are ‘given’[Rant over]
You are wrong.
An infantry soldier (a grunt) is cannon fodder for their whole career, the higher up in the ranks, the more people they can send to get shot first .
Other than that, it depends what corps you join. RAOC and RCT are stores and drivers (now combined as two sections of RLC). Or what trade you join up to learn and do. I joined the Royal Corps of Signals as a Combat Driver, granted at 20, but I could have joined at 17 and got my HGV on or near my 18th birthday.
PS. Guards and Paras are included (by me) as infantry.
does rct stand for rickshaws carts and taxi`s?
JB
You are not wrong.
JONBOY@RH:
does rct stand for rickshaws carts and taxi`s?
No it stands for Reckless C[zb] in Trucks
and im proud to say i was one for 5yrs till they threw me out lol
simon
LucyR:
Glad to hear it…they do me…especially when I’ve a) got to live with them and b) am relying on them for a lift to work!!!
So the way this is going you may well be walking tomorrow .
TheBigOne:
LucyR:
Glad to hear it…they do me…especially when I’ve a) got to live with them and b) am relying on them for a lift to work!!!So the way this is going you may well be walking tomorrow
kitkat spot on with that post.
I was also an RAF Driver for 22 years ending my time at No 2MT Squadron Stafford (those units with the blue outline of an elephant on the top and sides), That is the only RAF unit besides aircraft recovery that get any real experience on Artics, the loads vary from gen frt to low loaders and every airman posted onto that unit had intensive training on all the different types of Vehicles ,loads and restraint including fuel tankers and are not allowed on the roads untill believed to be fully competant. They are Tacho exempt but all are shown what they are about and as for drivers hours they do know them and unless operational commitments prevent them they will stick to them.
Yes the serviceman has courses and Licences thrown at him because he needs these to do his job ,if he is able to utilise these licences then he will start to gain the experience on a vast array of vehicles and loads.
Most civilians take on a job with a company and stick with it for life and become very experienced on that particular type of work, move to a different type of load and they are again a learner ,10 years experience on fridges ? what experience is that, set the fridge to correct temp, ensure load restraint bars in place and secure, drive to RDC and such reverse on bay and get tipped, easy life. I have all these licences, ADR all classes including Radioactive, PSV, Cranes, done the anti skid rollover ABS course with BP , and have gained the experience to a certain extent but can be walked over by a driver who has been on the job a while, But what do i pull, Yes a Fridge (easy life) so now i am gaining what there is to gain from fridge work but losing it on the rest because i am not active on that type of work.
Incidently i was at an RDC in Bradford the otherday and an agency driver of about 50 asked me how to put his Stralis in reverse gear, the company he was working for had not shown him around the vehicle and he had not asked them ? He reversed on the bay and i noticed his fridge was off, he didnt know how to turn it on, yet again this company had not shown him and he had not asked.
As a question how many fridge drivers know how to do a Double Dolly 
I always thought RCT stood for Rice Crispie Testers
So the way this is going you may well be walking tomorrow
Nah, mate…have until Wednesday morning to butter him into driving me in…in my car!!!… 
Zorba, It’s not the training of forces drivers that I was questioning, it’s the attitude of some of the ex-forces drivers I have met. “I was trained in the forces so I know everything and I’m going tell you thick civvies how it should be done” or “I’m not going to listen to some civvy even if he has been doing this type of work for years.” ( I will always try and help, but I don’t really care if people don’t take my advice).
Also from reading the post from those defending their military training it seems that believe that all haulage is just driving to RDC’s, there are jobs out there that require more than just turning up at an RDC and opening the back doors.
However I agree with Kit Kat’s point. You can’t tar every ex squaddie with the same brush, (becuase I can’t find one big enough )
OK it is really quite simple
The British Army is the most professional standing army in the world, they take on tasks and roles many far larger countries shy away from Why?
The British Army teaches every squaddie they are better armed, trained and led than anybody else in the world.If the individual soldier did not believe this and actually thought there was someone else better than them they would never go and fight. (Would you■■?)
So yes, I agree that ex-squaddies sometimes have an attitude, however a)given their prior role this is understandable and b)because they have been out doing the job on behalf of our country, putting their life and limb at risk they deserve some slack.
The Army training is far more comprehensive than any civilian training and goes far more into detail of load carrying than any driver training school on civvy street.
My point is these guys may have an attitude but they have earnt the right to have that attitude by doing the job for the country that civilians are not asked to do.
Whilst I’ve never served in any of the forces, I was brought up with a father in the RAF (still is, as it goes) and consequently have a lot of friends both past and present who are either current or ex-military…and one thing which continually comes up is the inadequacy of resettlement training…
Let’s face it…you do your 5 or 15 or whatever years, are trained to know and believe you are the best and can do anything, and ultimately ■■■■■■■■■■■ people.
At the end of your time they send you on a course which is supposed to give you the skills necessary to re-integrate into civilian life - which is what these guys and girls have to do, since the environment they are used to is so far removed (by necessity) from that which the rest of us live and function in.
So what does “resettlement” actually consist of■■? Bit of bricklaying…get a wagon licence…learn to plaster…etc.etc.etc. All perfectly valid skills, granted - but not an ounce of help when it comes to dealing with the real problem which so many ex-servicemen and women face.
The way I - and I know many others - see it is this. If you take normal, healthy men, and indoctrinate them into a wholly artificial way of thinking and operating in order to fulfil a vital and potentially lethal role, surely you then have a responsibility to un-do that training before sending them out into the big wide world…
Is it really any wonder that so many of these people who have given up great chunks of their lives to ensure OUR[/i] safety and security as a nation end up homeless…or with drug/alcohol problems…or suffering family breakdown…or unemployed…or in any of the other multitude of truly dire situations brought about by lack of support from those who rendered them incapable of “fitting in” in the first place■■?
I’m sorry, but if ex-squaddies have an attitude then it is no way their fault - quite the opposite, and fair play to those who do slowly readjust and go on to lead happy, settled lives. It’s the system which is badly letting these people down.
At the end of the day, every one of us sat here owes these people…without them we would not be free to have this debate. Maybe the best thing to do is stretch out the hand of friendship and start to repay that debt.
Rikki-UK:
OK it is really quite simpleThe British Army is the most professional standing army in the world, they take on tasks and roles many far larger countries shy away from Why?
The British Army teaches every squaddie they are better armed, trained and led than anybody else in the world.If the individual soldier did not believe this and actually thought there was someone else better than them they would never go and fight. (Would you■■?)
So yes, I agree that ex-squaddies sometimes have an attitude, however a)given their prior role this is understandable and b)because they have been out doing the job on behalf of our country, putting their life and limb at risk they deserve some slack.
The Army training is far more comprehensive than any civilian training and goes far more into detail of load carrying than any driver training school on civvy street.
My point is these guys may have an attitude but they have earnt the right to have that attitude by doing the job for the country that civilians are not asked to do.
Sorry but…the SA80 works when it feels like it (or at least it did), how many servicemen that served in Gulf1 or Gulf 2 BOUGHT their own boots because the issue kit was a load of rubbish, how many of our esteemed warriors had to SHARE body armour?
3 instances of being far from the best (through no fault of their own).
I took a new bloke out at a firm I used to work for, he was ex - squaddie (even had that funny grimace they pull when they are trying to look hard ), he had a class 1 & to hear him he had done it all…
He was to drive an ERF EC11 with an Olympic cab & a twin splitter gearbox, I drove it down south explaining the box as I went, we got to the tip & I showed him how to work the crane…he COULD NOT grasp the crane, I had to reverse the 12m long 8 wheeler out of the site (he refused…I cant do it is what he said) & coming round the M25 he stayed behind something doing 45, looked amazed when I told him to split a gear & get round it.
In conclusion, he told me to drop him back at the yard because HE said he was out of his league!!!
My only response was that I was glad he was no longer ‘defending’ king & country because if it had kicked off he would have been running back to his mum!
Had he earned the right to pull silly faces & tell me he had done it all backwards, forwards & sideways? I dont think so
He also told me that anything bigger than a Bedford MK was automatic so they were all like big go-carts just stop & go (his description not mine).
The reason they dive in where others wont is because they do as they are told ‘without question’ which is the reason some employers like them.
Sorry if any of this offends (it isnt intended to) but lets see all sides of it.
No offence Rikki but you still fly the flag (evident by your wording), having never flown the flag I see a different view (wouldnt do if we all thought the same, there would be no debate then).
I would also say that ex forces have not ‘earned’ the right to have any attitude any more than any other person… arrogance is arrogance no matter what hat you put on it.