Things have changed a lot JB.
It isn’t Charlie Czech or Robin Romanian causing havoc with underpowered trucks belching black smoke.
It is Billy Britain holding everyone up nowadays 
yes malc because were the only suckers running with limiters on nowadays 
Coffeeholic:
So you closed up the gap and stopped the smooth merging of vehicles and caused an accident to occur, not very courteous really in my book.
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I was travelling at the correct speed for the construction zone, as were all the other vehicles, the guy had enough room to pull in behind me but was not satisfied with that, just as most of these people, he just had to be in front 
With a State trooper watching I believe if I had been in the wrong it would be me with the ticket, not him. If you are 100 yards or so from a coned off area but are so ignorant or stupid that you don’t pull over, you deserve everything you get. Trouble is most of these people just stare at the road directly in front of them and don’t read the road ahead. When I am driving in any type of vehicle always look ahead as far as it is possible to see, if an area is coned off 2 miles away, I get prepared.
I don’t know what HGV school you all went to but it was drummed into my mind when I took my training and test.
READ THE ROAD AHEAD
I think it is purly a case of manners,
Roadworks etc are signed at least 800yrds before you are required to file into certain lanes,
Now I had this the other night on the M42 near the NEC, the motorway was closed to allow major roadworks to be carried out, I was in the inside lane crawling along in a rigid, whilst the two outside lanes every car in the world was racing past to get a bit futher along the queue,
The way I look at it is that every PRAT that races up to the cones then pushes there way in causes the traffic to back up and up and up, I had just passed the 600 yrd warning sign saying the motorway was going down to one lane, still cars racing past, Now I was thinking about slowing things up a bit but the artic driver behing beat me to it, straddling both middle and outside lanes, then a car driver decided to go between two artics to get past, so I move over and there is now three trucks side by side all moving together, the traffic moves steadily along, and I did not stop once, BUT before that I had periods of sitting for 5-10 mins not moving whilst the two outside lanes were racing past, before someone says, we were moving at the same speed as the traffic in front, which strangely as there was no cars pushing in at the front kept moving along, 
I also happen to think that people not getting into a lane early are very dangerous because they are not paying any attention to the signs before, and I have seen a couple of cars that panic whilst doing 60 plus when they cant get into the lane thay want and go striaght trough the cones, this is extremely dangerous as the cones mark an area where men MAY be working in the road, are these people not entitled to the 800yrd buffer of safety? If people start to move over into the open lanes when they see the first signs when the traffic gets to the roadworks it should be moving slowly and orderly and creates a safety zone for the workforce,
Someone mentioned that people behind the trucks will be slipping clutches etc but that clearly means thay are travelling to close to the vehicle in front as if the trucks are moving at a steady speed they have no need to stop so the following vehicles can travel at the same speed, if they are constantly stopping and starting someone is too close!
That is my opinion, and no one will change it because, I WORK on the motorways and sometimes have to work in roadworks to attend breakdowns, so it is these IDIOTS 
that make my job more dangerous than normal
as the signs say
KILL YOUR SPEED NOT OUR WORKFORCE !
Rant over
Pat Hasler:
I was travelling at the correct speed for the construction zone, as were all the other vehicles, the guy had enough room to pull in behind me but was not satisfied with that, just as most of these people, he just had to be in front
:
when away from a forum or other colleagues, I’d wager the majority of pro drivers would want to be in front.
I know for damned sure I would. I don’t want labouring engine’s exhaust filling my visor, a 25 foot high trailer obscuring my view of slow-downs ahead, preventing me from knowing when the restricted lane is going to flik-flak into a contraflow and be faced with a sea of cones. I don’t want to be prevented from knowing when temporary catseyes cross the line of my wheels and can knock my steering - especially in the wet! and worst of all, white lines and overbanding.- more common-place in road-works due to off-set lines and extra instructions laid down on the road.
so, am I being rude or discourteous or agressive? Nope. Just doing the only sane thing. Getting in front whenever possible (which is also the advice taught to me on my advanced riding course “The MAC” with a west yorkshire police grade 1 examiner. The front is the safest place to be, as the driver of any smaller or more vulnerable vehicle.
besides - you should expect it to happen, whatever the reason. it’s never going to stop, and so you should be observing behind you, guesstimate their likely spot from closing speed and give a little room in case its to be in front of you.
read the road behind! 
Discopete:
I think it is purly a case of manners,The way I look at it is that every PRAT that races up to the cones then pushes there way in causes the traffic to back up and up and up, I had just passed the 600 yrd warning sign saying the motorway was going down to one lane, still cars racing past, Now I was thinking about slowing things up a bit but the artic driver behing beat me to it, straddling both middle and outside lanes, then a car driver decided to go between two artics to get past, so I move over and there is now three trucks side by side all moving together, the traffic moves steadily along, and I did not stop once, BUT before that I had periods of sitting for 5-10 mins not moving whilst the two outside lanes were racing past, before someone says, we were moving at the same speed as the traffic in front, which strangely as there was no cars pushing in at the front kept moving along,
nope, the cause is the inconsiderate prats refusing to let traffic in due to some misguided belief that they have more right to the road ahead than any other.
regardless of how late the vehicle merges, there is equal right to be there, and the law states you give way to traffic from the right. if they are moving more rapidly, and clearly intend to merge later then they have the legal and moral right to do so.
the manouver executed by the other driver was stupid, illegal, dangerous and downright pathetic. straddling a lane he has no legal right to be in, blocking other vehicles and other dangerous acts, simply because he doesn’t like the fact they’ll be ahead of him?
YOUR piece of traffic was moving along, YOUR piece of road was fine, but what about a mile behind? You have 3 lanes of traffic FORCEDto move at equal speed, and all bunched up, no gap, and then WHAM, expected to megre in all in one go? cue a massive slow-down as everyoine has to slow down 3 times more to let vehicles in, more stoppages but this time with an increased bulk of condensed traffic.
Purely selfish driving. Making sure your bit of tarmac is clear but sod the rest 3 minutes behind. Chances are your own jam of stop-start was caused the same way.
Manners would be to not get involved, leave a gap large enough for a long vehicle to get in ahead, regardless of the stop-start and try to encroach it as little as possible. let traffic merge, don’t bottle-neck it more!
Manners and courtesy seem to be the arguing point of some rather misguided plans. The biggest act of driving decency is to create the space to merge, no matter what the motives of others in getting there.
This should answer a few arguments brought up here-in.
Taken from the IAM’s press release pages.
TAKE TURNS AT BOTTLENECKS AND CUT QUEUES SAYS IAM
Issued 17 July 2001
A more sensible approach for drivers negotiating the lane closures that cause summer queue misery was proposed today by the Institute of Advanced Motorists (IAM).
“Zip merging” means all available lanes are used right up to the bottleneck, with vehicles then merging in turn, one from the left, one from the right, in the style of a zip. The idea features in the summer edition of the IAM members’ magazine, Advanced Driving and draws attention to a lack of advice on this point in the Highway Code.
“Three-into-two and two-into-one lane merge situations are very common on our roads and clear advice in the Highway Code on how to deal with them is essential. Should you get into the queue and crawl for perhaps a mile or more, even though there is a totally empty lane adjacent to yours going right up to the start of the blocked lane? Or should you use the empty lane right up to where the lane closure begins and then blend in with the traffic in that lane?” asked IAM Chief Examiner Bryan Lunn.
"In our view, the sensible advice for all lane merging situations is that drivers should reduce their speed and increase the gap between themselves and the vehicle in front. All available lanes should be used right up to where the lane closure begins and vehicles should merge in turn - one from the left, one from the right, and so on."
Mr Lunn suggested that if everyone did this, the traffic will continue to flow at the point where lanes are closed or blocked, and everyone would get past the obstruction quicker. All available road space would be used efficiently, and the “absurd situation” of long queues of traffic alongside a totally empty lane will be avoided, he said. Zip merging or “interleaving” works very well in other countries, where explanatory road signs have diagrams showing how vehicles should merge in turn from two lanes.Reducing crashes and congestion are at the heart of the Government’s Road Safety Strategy and its Casualty Reduction Targets.
"Some drivers seem to think that vehicles merging from a blocked or closed lane are jumping the queue. This brings out the ‘I’m first, you’re next’ attitude in them, which affects safety and adds to the congestion and frustration levels. Some lorry drivers deliberately straddle the two lanes, thus preventing car drivers from using the empty lane - an unhelpful and stupid manoeuvre," he said. The “zip merge” proposal will now go forward to the Highways Agency.
For further information, contact :
Vince Yearley IAM Press Officer 020 8996 9600
Just to throw in my tuppence worth. I was always told to drive my vehicle so as not to cause a danger or an Inconenience to any other road user. Maybe if we ALL applied this things would move a lot smoother and safer
I applaud the attitude.
Also I’d say if we can see someone isn’t being as considerate as we may ourselves like, then take away the stick they’re beating your mind up with - let them get on with it. you’re happy, they’re happy and no exaggeration of consequence occurs.
I’m Afriad I disagree
If every person has the legal right to be in the lanes before roadworks etc then what is the point of the 800 plus yrds of signs, Do they get noticed?
most professional drivers would read the road ahead, see that the lanes are going to be closed and get in the correct lane, but mostly car drivers notice, Oh the lanes are closed ahead so we will SPEED up go down the lanes to get to the front rather than sit and join the queue,
the reason for the queue is because the people in lane 1 are in the correct lane, but then there are people in lanes 2 and 3 go right up to the cones and then the people in lane 1 have to stop and let them in, this causes the stop start condition experienced a bit further back, So if the traffic is taken away from lanes 2 and 3 the traffic can flow without stopping, as I experiened we did not stop moving once for the remaining 600 yrds, I take you comment on the 3 miles of traffic behind in all three lanes, yes but I would bet large sums of money that even if there was no “rolling road block” that there would still be 3 miles of traffic in all three lanes, effectivly the trucks in all three lanes are an extention to the road cones all be it 600 yrds further down the road, but the traffic entering the single lane is now in a controlled fashion , yes it is a case of this is my bit of road and your not getting it, but the other option is to stay in the inside lane, until you get to the point that you are now stopping and starting or not even moving, so as suggested you leave a good sized gap in front of you, then someone takes the space up, so you let a gap develop and suprise suprise someone else takes the space, so you might as well turn off the engine and wait for the road to open again?
It is nothing to do with having a legal right to be anywhere,
Further to add to this point I have been on a roadside safety course, and have seen a video of this very subject, they did an experiment on a motorway by closing the outside lanes and bringing all the traffic to one lane, first of all they used a highways truck with one of those signs that stick up in the air with huge flashing lights on and a load of cones, the traffic all bunched up right up to the cones, Yes theyare legally there, then they did the same again but substituted the highways truck for a Police traffic car, Guess what?
Yes all the traffic filed into a single lane several hundred yards before reaching the cones, Why is that then? They have a legal right to be there, or is it the fact that the Blue lights set peoples mind ticking?
As I have said befroe a great deal of my work is involves working on the motorways so my interest is purely for safety, because I know how intimidating it is to have people use there vehicles as weapons just to get a bit further up the queue, vehicles that straddle lanes are using there size to control the traffic and slow the pace down a bit, an they are only like putting the cones 600yrds further down the road, be it three lanes of trucks or three lanes of cones the queues are still there,
If you are queuing in the supermarket with six or seven people in front of you and I walk past and ask the bloke at the front to let me in and he does, you’d think cheeky git, but then if four or five people do the same what do you think then 
Yes it is mainly a case of this is my bit of road and your not having it but also I feel sorry for the people in the roadworks,
what happens when the cones are put out, they put all the signs out then move up the road and move there vehicle into the outside lane of the motorway, just relying on the signs to move people across, then one person starts to place the cones on the road surface, slowly moving across the lanes, the cars coming towards them are more than likely to be exceeding the speed limits and still Have a legal right to be there, less than a cones width away from a human life, I dont know the figure but I would be interested to see how many people have been killed or badly injured by people not paying attention to road warning signs?
It is a matter for personal opinion and I’ll never change what I do,
forgive me if I come across as rude, but that really is complete twaddle.
moving the cones 600 yards indeed.
the vehicles will stay behind not merge in earlier, because they want to get past. they don’t picture the trucks as a cone extention and move in. simply wait for the trucks blocking the way to get near the cones and merge, before doing so. so the flow is slowed down yet more by those poor misguided fools in control of the unauthorised roadblock.
why do cars move in for cop cars ahead? the same reason they brake for a speed camera even though they’re within the limit. panic, not wanting to even remotely get done for something they are unsure of - and the guilt syndrome - I did nuffink wrong, honest, and if they can’t see me then they can’t pin nuffink on me! - despite the fact they are indeed completely innocent anyway. happens in every area from traffic to street policing. innocent normal people get their head down and try to go unseen.
Personally, I trust the opinion more of a grade 1 police examiner, the IAM and the authors of the highway code than some truckers qualified only to drive their own vehicle, not with the fluid dynamics of traffic flow.
The more you think about it as well the clearer it is. If it really WERE safer, and promoted traffic flow, wouldn’t the highways agency have 3 7.5 tonners on standby to make a rolling roadblock, get to the 1st junction after the works, turn round, nip back up and return journey to make sure it persistently flows? cost - 3 wages and 3 vehicles per works against the millions in lost revenues and taxes from delayed freight movement and potential danger to the lives of workers? slightly stretched maybe but at major bottlenecks it’d be highly likely I’d venture. Why no use of the matrix boards saying “GET LEFT NOW” earlier on? Because all things as they should be, the zipper effect runs up to the cones and people leave space to merge.
suggesting that leaving a gap to be filled forces you to a standstill, is also a bizarre fantasy/nightmare that doesn’t happen. Sure, it gets filled and if those ahead maintain that slightly swifter pace they had anyway then the gap regenerates little by little over the next few hundred yards and you haven’t changed speed at all. if EVERY driver maintained a gap then the vehicles could merge with no slowdown at all too. Its only if they have to keep regenerating gaps to compensate for the plonkers further back who close the gaps through poor will and temperement issues that a slight slowdown occurs further back, but again its more gradual than a massive rolling roadblock forcing uniform speeds that demotes the opportunity for merging instead of promoting.
To compare with a supermarket check-out is just plain silly, and a poor analogy. I’d agree if it were a toll booth argument. It’s not. It’s traffic merging. We are talking an aisle with smashed glass on the floor with lots of people going the same way and needing to merge together to pass. Again, I’m sure you’d let the person to your side through, then follow, and trust the person behind to do the same. if 2 trolley-pilots then decide to walk theirs side by side at a slow pace, arms spread and then merge to go through, all they’ve done is block up the aisle behind them with lots of angry shoppers who have to re-begin the good work of a zipper effect themselves, albeit at a slower more gongested pace. incidentally - at the check-out if the fella has a hand-basket and is in a rush, and I’m there with my trolley loaded up, sure, why not let him in? he’ll be gone and out of my way in no time. no skin off my nose. I’d assume the person asked or indicated his intent. much like the road user bunging his indicators on.or approaching rapidly.
I certainly know how they place cones out. It does differ from contractor to contractor mind you, ever so slightly. Point of fact - local works on the M180 a few months back. Some signs out. 3 large cone-dropping vehicles out, and a highways agency white van with amber lights. flashing lights visible a long way back, and rolling, all 3 at a steady pace with LARGE gap to the front vehicle, the large ones with the huge keep-left arrows on the back.
The rear 2 vehicles (large one and a van) keep pace as the lead vehicle slows down, drops the first few cones out reasonably widely paced but still feeding out from reserve to lane lines. the trailing vehicles move to drop round the cones and in, one parked up a hundred yards or so in and the other catching up the primary cone dropping vehicle. the earlier cones are padded out later, but the merge has been set in relative safety with large bright flashing vehicles protecting the coned area while still moving. its avoided by 3rd lane hoggers and overtakers by simply moving over as indicated to do so, passing the lead vehicle and cones and off they go.
quite what relevance that has to 3 trucks blocking an entire carriageway carrying heavy traffic to prevent other drivers going about a normal merging process at cones already laid out is beyond me. 2 very different sides of different coins that happen to be in the same ■■■■■.
So we all agree which is the best way to do it then.HA HA. 
I can see both sides of the argument. The fact is that cars are more manouverable than trucks, can stop and start much easier. In queues, if a car nips into that gap between you and the truck in front, and steals your safety space, you’re stuffed. It kills truck fuel economy to be in start-stop traffic.
I have to agree with Pat and the other guys, it was originally meant to ease the flow of traffic so therefore noone had to use thier brakes because of ‘late cutters’, thus enabling the traffic to merge nice and continuously
I personally in these circumstances will sit in lane 1 and leave enough room infront of me so i don’t have to keep stopping and starting, yeah ok, the cars jump in, i’m not too bothered about that just as long as i keep moving.
Only once have i used the truck to stop people cutting in, and i felt so bad about doing it that i haven’t done it since.
So i just sit and leave a gap and sometimes i’ll even flash cars in.
Discopete:
I’m Afriad I disagree
If every person has the legal right to be in the lanes before roadworks etc then what is the point of the 800 plus yrds of signs, Do they get noticed?
The point of them is to do exactly the job they are doing advising that in 800 yards a lane is closed. It would be just a little dangerous to come across a closed lane with no advance warning would it not?
So… Two trucks blocking both lanes, rolling along at 50mph (marked speed limit) traffic behind queuing to get past, trucks get to the cones and one slots in front of t’other. Cars behind now all up to cones and can Zzzzipper right in to their hearts content,. job well done. Thanks Driv’. 
I can see both sides to this argument, like cornish trucker, I know the a30 at gossmoor very well (have spent many a saturday sat in ques there) but I can also see the benifit of the zip merge system. I personally think the problem is 2 fold.
-
Cars either not knowing the zip merge system, or not caring because of attitude
-
The fact that the roads are so overcrowded now that it doesn’t matter what we do, if you shut down one third of available roadspace (i.e moterway lane) there are always going to delays.
I have tried the lane blocking years ago (in my earlier coach driving days) but have failed to see any benifit.
as long as I merge early enough, why shoul I care. It certainly reduces my stress levels.
If they indicate and wait for me to allow a gap, then thats fine by me. What does get my back up is when they just try and force their way into a gap that is not there
So
I talk TWADDLE
am a PLONKER
and are Just PLAIN SILLY
Thanks! 
sniper:
2. The fact that the roads are so overcrowded now that it doesn’t matter what we do, if you shut down one third of available roadspace (i.e moterway lane) there are always going to delays.
That is the most sensible comment in this whole debate. It sums the situation up nicely, various things may increase or decrease the amount of the delay but sniper has hit the nail on the head there will be a delay.