TC:
I am still gonna sleep on this! another night maybe more!
The anticipation is just to much, and tommorow I will be at work and wont get near the comp til thursday. So not only will I miss TopGear 
but also the culmination of your gathered wisdom no this subject 
TC Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:33 pm Post subject:
I am still gonna sleep on this! another night maybe more!
chicken 
Ive been in both camps on this matter. For about the first 15 years I would race about naturally, I thoiught it was a good idea then, and in fact did it.
Lately, well over the last ten years, I couldnt care much about speed or time, hence, I dont do it and just crawl along regardless. And as far as I can see, I get just as much done in a day.
Does it really work though? I dont really know, as I have no accurate data, I feel that it dont, or is so much a small ammount of time it’s barely a difference, maybe 10 mins? but I know one thing for certain, it’s a load more stress when youre blocking about 500 other drivers behind you with your lorry! 
If there is a 3 into 2 or 2 into 1 roadwork system. I can guarantee that the quickest route is to stay in the inside lane. swapping lanes just aggravates the problem, winding other drivers up.
Stay on the inside and take note of what is around you, then have a look as you enter the roadworks. the lane hoppers will be behind you 
Unless you work for Canute Haulage and have an exemption to use the 3rd lane of the M42 for 2 miles
all that lane changing dont do nowt, but you have to know it to believe it, if you see what I mean,
also you’ll never convince somebody that believes racing about actually works that it dont, try it, yoiull be better off talking to the wall!
Coffeeholic:
Kate Hasler:
And why should the truck yield to the car when everyone is waiting for the same reason?And there lies the whole problem, it is one of attitude. The truck driver won’t give way to the car driver, the car driver won’t give way to the truck driver but the thing is someone has to give way eventually otherwise no one goes anywhere.
Just by leaving a slight gap and having a little consideration for fellow motorists, regardless of the vehicle they drive, the two lanes can merge easily into one using the zip method. It won’t happen though because the truck driver feels it his mission in life to hinder the car driver, the car driver is anxious to not be behind the truck feeling if he is behind it may take a few seconds longer to reach his destination so every one just battles on hindering the merging of the two lanes and everyone is delayed as a result. The two trucks crawling along beside each other are helping no one but themselves and are causing more problems than they think they are solving. So again it is down to attitude and having no consideration for anyone else.
I agree that some drivers have no courtesy for others. But I still say that a truck shouldn’t have to yield to a car that’s trying to jump the queue to beat everyone else and has ignored all indications that he should merge before that, because he’s in too much of a hurry to apply common sense… THAT’s the lack of courtesy. Nobody likes to be stuck in traffic… but its inevitable for everyone sometimes. And when the truck yields to one car, they all decide to take advantage and go ahead, then its the truck sitting there waiting for all the cars, and gets labeled as being the one to cause the traffic jam, when in reality, if people just merged when they should and got in the proper lane when indicated to do so, the problem would be avoided. It’s simple… whoever is sitting in the front of the line has right of way… whether truck or car.
If the average car driver had courtesy and respect for the truck drivers to begin with, the trucks wouldn’t double up that way.
I don’t lack courtesy for other drivers at all… I lack patience for idiots who think they own the road.
truckyboy:
if you are not on an hourly rate…then youre the idiot…who wants a job without a guaranteed wage in these days…
Forgive me if I’m wrong but if you are salaried doesn’t that give you a guaranteed wage & if you are on hourly pay doesn’t that mean your pay will be different every week?
So going by your reckoning then if you are on hourly pay your an idiot (but not as big an idiot as being self employed eh )
truckyboy:
if you are not on an hourly rate…then youre the idiot…
Guess that makes me an idiot then…
Kate Hasler:
I agree that some drivers have no courtesy for others. But I still say that a truck shouldn’t have to yield to a car that’s trying to jump the queue to beat everyone else and has ignored all indications that he should merge before that, because he’s in too much of a hurry to apply common sense… THAT’s the lack of courtesy.
But the vehicle in the outside lane isn’t trying to jump the queue, the merging point is where the road narrows, the signs only inform you it is happening ahead they don’t mean merge 1500 metres, 1000 metres or 500 metres before the merging point. As has been said if you were supposed to merge 1500 metres down the road that would be where the cones would be and by not merging at the merging point several hundred metres of roadway are being wasted which adds to the jam.
If everyone just eased of a little and left a gap the merging would go smoothly at the start of the lane closure and no one would be delayed.
The merging doesn’t begin at the cones… its suppose to be completed by the time you get to that point… thats just simple common sense. So to wait until you get there, thinking you can just jump into line in front of those who were prepared, is arrogant and shows total lack of courtesy for the drivers who know what they’re doing.
I’ve seen drivers get ticketed for it here… its obstructing the flow of traffic through a road construction zone.
This is not a matter of Truck vs Car 
This is a matter of courtesy vs arrogance
Whein you really sit and watch, when two trucks or any other type of vehicle (I do it in my car) hold traffic back and the single line forms well before the coned off area, the traffic in that line moves smoothly into and through the coned area.
The warning signs are there for a reason, to tell you to form a single line, not to rush past all the courteous drivers and barge in at the last moment, It doesn’t matter how much of a hurry you are in, they all have somewhere to go.
You will get stopped ad tickete for ignoring the merge signs here and I have seen it many times.
A month or so ago I was on I-495 in MA and in the middle lane comming up on a section where the slow lane was coned off, there were warning signs from 1 mile before telling everyone to move to the two other lanes, as I got nearer the two lanes I could see a large black car (No brand mentioned but it was pf Bavarian orrigin LOL) shooting up the slow lane to cut in at the last moment, he got along side my truck but got no joy from me because I just kept going, me hitting my brakes at that point would cause everyone else to do so and start a tailback,… result 
he eneded up going straight into the cones, sounding his horn at me and giving me the single finger salute 
A cop sat watching and was out of his car in a flash signalling to the car driver to stop right there, he grinned at me and waived me by
Kate Hasler:
The merging doesn’t begin at the cones… its suppose to be completed by the time you get to that point… thats just simple common sense. So to wait until you get there, thinking you can just jump into line in front of those who were prepared, is arrogant and shows total lack of courtesy for the drivers who know what they’re doing.I’ve seen drivers get ticketed for it here… its obstructing the flow of traffic through a road construction zone.
Sorry Kate, but that to me seems like the complete opposite of common sense…as Coffeeholic said, if you were supposed to begin merging before that point, why not make the cones start sooner…
The warning signs are just that - a warning that there is a merge point ahead - and serve two purposes dependent on the time of day at which you come across them:
Merging before this point simply “closes” one lane needlessly early, making the queue longer overall…the smoothest solution is for everyone to merge like a “zip” at the merge point - a sysem which works very well on the Continent, and on the rare occasionswhere there are “merge in turn” signs at the start fo the cones.
This is also why many large roadworks now have signs along the queue length saying “Queue in oth lanes”.
Yes, a lot of the problem is lack of courtesy on the part of all drivers…which is why I never get into this whole “lane-blocking” game myself - despite being under 30 and paid mileage!!!
But whatever way you look at it, cramming into one lane miles before the cones is simply nonsensical, IMHO…which is why, presumably, people don’t get ticketed for it in this country.
alright lucy yer made yer point in the first one
OOoops… 
Sorted now. 
Kate Hasler:
I’ve seen drivers get ticketed for it here… its obstructing the flow of traffic through a road construction zone.
What happens there doesn’t apply everywhere in most European countries the merging point is at the cones; well to be precise just before the cones. If the lane that is closing isn’t been used on the approach to the coned area that amount of roadway is being wasted. A couple of weeks ago I approached a coned of section of road in Germany and there were signs from 1500 metres out warning of the closure of lane 1. Just before the closure there was a illuminated, animated, sign showing the zip merging method and saying to perform the manoeuvre then, the traffic all merged smoothly and there was no hold ups, all the available road had been used on the approach and the merging of the two lanes was smooth and safe.
It’s not rocket science, drivers in the lane that is remaining open ease off slightly, they have to do this anyway as there is usually a reduced limit through the road works, and one vehicle from the lane that is closing merges into the space between them and the vehicle in front just before the coned off section. Note this could be trucks on lane 1 letting cars merge from lane 2 or cars in lane 2 letting trucks merge from lane 1.
Kate Hasler:
The merging doesn’t begin at the cones… its suppose to be completed by the time you get to that point… thats just simple common sense
Agreed and by merging smoothly just before the cones the move is completed by that point, common sense really. What isn’t common sense is leaving several hundred metres of perfectly good roadway unused by moving over way before the start of the closure then closing up on the vehicle in front and denying other vehicles the chance to merge. Use all of the available road and lessen the jam.
Pat Hasler:
This is not a matter of Truck vs CarThis is a matter of courtesy vs arrogance
Whein you really sit and watch, when two trucks or any other type of vehicle (I do it in my car) hold traffic back and the single line forms well before the coned off area, the traffic in that line moves smoothly into and through the coned area.
Only for the two vehicles who have decided they are traffic police and the few in front of them, not for others further down the line, that’s a bit arrogant and discourteous of those two drivers not caring about drivers behind them is it not?
Pat Hasler:
A month or so ago I was on I-495 in MA and in the middle lane comming up on a section where the slow lane was coned off, there were warning signs from 1 mile before telling everyone to move to the two other lanes, as I got nearer the two lanes I could see a large black car (No brand mentioned but it was pf Bavarian orrigin LOL) shooting up the slow lane to cut in at the last moment, he got along side my truck but got no joy from me because I just kept going, me hitting my brakes at that point would cause everyone else to do so and start a tailback,… result
So you closed up the gap and stopped the smooth merging of vehicles and caused an accident to occur, not very courteous really in my book.
neil, i dont mean any offense here but i did germany regularly (twice a week to mainz double-manned) and the overtaking ban was a pain in the arse. as soon as it lifted everyone went hell for leather to get by charlie czech at the front bellowing out black smoke. do you really want to sit in a line of slow moving traffic ala koln-aachen or koln-heidelberg(or wherever the a61 finishes… its a while ago now ). you seem to be painting a perfect picture of european drivers all giving way politely and merging in. in my experience they can be worse than in england. when the fuel blockades were on in france 7 or 8 years ago i spent 5 hours trying to get through the peage at nimes because no-one would give way.
yes hmmmm the pub at lunchtime on a sunday with father… i meant to answer the no-overtaking thread …
I’m not saying that JB but in general vehicles at roadworks over the water merge easier than they do in the UK. The overtaking ban thread is a different one but I am so used to it by now I barely even notice and I just go with the flow and don’t get wound up because I can’t overtake. I agree that when the no overtaking sections finish it gets like wacky races and it’s best to let them get on with it and wait until they are all done causing havoc, then go sailing past them all. 
I don’t doubt you spent 5 hours getting through a peage during a blockade, it wouldn’t have been a very effective blockade if you got through it in minutes would it?
smart arse !!