If I only drive HGV’s one day every other weekend ( basically, 2 -3 days per month ) because for the
rest of the month I have a full time job ( van driving ) non tacho… which I believe adheres to GB
domestic hours rules, then am I legally obliged to make a manual entry for the time unaccounted for since my last card withdrawal. Which in my case would be around a fortnight!
Bear in mind I would already be recording my main employment hours on charts and perhaps even a
small notebook to account for this NON hgv time period.
The only instance I can see where I need to make a manual entry, is if I do any other work before
or after inserting/ejecting my card on my agency shifts! Is this correct?
In the UK a diary of other work is usually acceptable but if van driving then that should come under UK domestic regs where a daily time sheet is filled out - those time sheets are acceptable
Whether there legal or not , good practise you should be doing them , there not exactly hard to do
And as tango says 15 mins beginning/ end of shift is a extra 2 1/2 hrs pay p.w
Lennoxtown:
If I only drive HGV’s one day every other weekend ( basically, 2 -3 days per month ) because for the
rest of the month I have a full time job ( van driving ) non tacho… which I believe adheres to GB
domestic hours rules, then am I legally obliged to make a manual entry for the time unaccounted for since my last card withdrawal. Which in my case would be around a fortnight!
Bear in mind I would already be recording my main employment hours on charts and perhaps even a
small notebook to account for this NON hgv time period.
The only instance I can see where I need to make a manual entry, is if I do any other work before
or after inserting/ejecting my card on my agency shifts! Is this correct?
If the van is no more than 3.5t you won’t need to keep records so probably wouldn’t be using charts or a log book, if it’s more than 3.5t and fitted with an analogue tachograph as your post suggests (I would already be recording my main employment hours on charts), why is it exempt from EU regulations ?
Anyway, in weeks that you drive in-scope of EU regulations you’re required to keep records of work done on none driving days on printouts or charts or a log book if you’re using one, tear off a piece of printing paper and write the start and finish times with your name and sign it, some people have said that they’ve been told by enforcement officers that records in a notebook will suffice but I can’t confirm that, legally the records should be on printouts/charts or in a log book.
You only need to keep these records for the weeks that you drive in-scope of EU regulations.
Don’t try to put manual entries for the week into a tachograph, it will be time consuming and there’s a likelihood of mistakes, as said, use the ? symbol for the time between the end of the last tachograph shift and the start of the current shift.
dozy:
Whether there legal or not , good practise you should be doing them , there not exactly hard to do
And as tango says 15 mins beginning/ end of shift is a extra 2 1/2 hrs pay p.w
Have you tried to do a manual entry for 2 weeks work and keep a track of what you’re putting in, very easy to mess up.
Lennoxtown:
If I only drive HGV’s one day every other weekend ( basically, 2 -3 days per month ) because for the
rest of the month I have a full time job ( van driving ) non tacho… which I believe adheres to GB
domestic hours rules, then am I legally obliged to make a manual entry for the time unaccounted for since my last card withdrawal. Which in my case would be around a fortnight!
Bear in mind I would already be recording my main employment hours on charts and perhaps even a
small notebook to account for this NON hgv time period.
The only instance I can see where I need to make a manual entry, is if I do any other work before
or after inserting/ejecting my card on my agency shifts! Is this correct?
Anyway, in weeks that you drive in-scope of EU regulations you’re required to keep records of work done on none driving days on printouts or charts or a log book if you’re using one, tear off a piece of printing paper and write the start and finish times with your name and sign it, some people have said that they’ve been told by enforcement officers that records in a notebook will suffice but I can’t confirm that, legally the records should be on printouts/charts or in a log book.
You only need to keep these records for the weeks that you drive in-scope of EU regulations.
Spoken to many DVSA types about this over the years, either informally or at official seminars for Operators, and all have said any sort of diary, timesheet or other obvious form of record keeping is ok. And I’m sure so many people in the OP’s situation fail to have a record keeping system, that any system would give a good impression if checked.
dozy:
Whether there legal or not , good practise you should be doing them , there not exactly hard to do
And as tango says 15 mins beginning/ end of shift is a extra 2 1/2 hrs pay p.w
Have you tried to do a manual entry for 2 weeks work and keep a track of what you’re putting in, very easy to mess up.
Why is it difficult , I have 2 weeks off and do a manual entry for finish time of last shift and one for start of first shift back , it’s very easy but I must admit a lot of drivers do struggle to grasp it
Been debating this on F/B and in all honesty i dont really see the point in keeping 2 sets of records…ie the digi card/tacho + a time sheet, exercise book or whatever…the way i see it it is…i put the card in whenever i work, and take it out when im not working, all other time in between is obviously my time..no need to keep other records, and i never have..been doing that all the time in transport, and i know times have changed, so i thought the tacho and digi card is enough..cant change the habits of a lifetime..My only other concern is when in between jobs..holidays etc..some countries ask where i have been..but dont act when i tell them im on holiday…maybe one day they will ask me to produce a letter from the boss…simple on an email or message eh !..
dozy:
Whether there legal or not , good practise you should be doing them , there not exactly hard to do
And as tango says 15 mins beginning/ end of shift is a extra 2 1/2 hrs pay p.w
Have you tried to do a manual entry for 2 weeks work and keep a track of what you’re putting in, very easy to mess up.
Why is it difficult , I have 2 weeks off and do a manual entry for finish time of last shift and one for start of first shift back , it’s very easy but I must admit a lot of drivers do struggle to grasp it
Yes one entry to cover a holiday period is easy, now try 2 weeks of normal work with getting other work, rest periods, daily rests for each of those days.
muckles:
Yes one entry to cover a holiday period is easy, now try 2 weeks of normal work with getting other work, rest periods, daily rests for each of those days.
^^^ too bloody right. I shunt for a week every six weeks, in a Terberg and all on site and their aint a cat in hells chance of me doing a manual entry for that whole week. The scope for getting it wrong means that the risks outweigh the rewards imo.
dozy:
Whether there legal or not , good practise you should be doing them , there not exactly hard to do
And as tango says 15 mins beginning/ end of shift is a extra 2 1/2 hrs pay p.w
Have you tried to do a manual entry for 2 weeks work and keep a track of what you’re putting in, very easy to mess up.
No… I only attempted to do one manual entry to cover the last withdrawal of my card which was the previous Saturday
However, as I’ve barely used my digi card in 8 years I started off entering my last withdrawal date & time, but got confused
half way through the procedure and I’m not sure whether I also managed to finish the manual entry before it reverted to the
home screen and at that point I just said. "Sod it! " & carried on with my actual shift for that day!
So would a partial ( incomplete! ) or wrong manual entry register as an infringement? Obviously, I took all my legal EU Hours
& WTD breaks at the right times, etc?
dozy:
Whether there legal or not , good practise you should be doing them , there not exactly hard to do
And as tango says 15 mins beginning/ end of shift is a extra 2 1/2 hrs pay p.w
Have you tried to do a manual entry for 2 weeks work and keep a track of what you’re putting in, very easy to mess up.
No… I only attempted to do one manual entry to cover the last withdrawal of my card which was the previous Saturday
However, as I’ve barely used my digi card in 8 years I started off entering my last withdrawal date & time, but got confused
half way through the procedure and I’m not sure whether I also managed to finish the manual entry before it reverted to the
home screen and at that point I just said. "Sod it! " & carried on with my actual shift for that day!
So would a partial ( incomplete! ) or wrong manual entry register as an infringement? Obviously, I took all my legal EU Hours
& WTD breaks at the right times, etc?
8 years they only last 5 don’t they before they are replaced
tango boy:
8 years they only last 5 don’t they before they are replaced
Maybe he replaced his when not in use like I did, I’d not used my old one since 09 but I replaced it in 15 at the same time as my 45 medical, I even paid to keep my DCPC going, I had the money and it’s always kept my options open so it made sense to renew everything.
Lennoxtown:
If I only drive HGV’s one day every other weekend ( basically, 2 -3 days per month ) because for the
rest of the month I have a full time job ( van driving ) non tacho… which I believe adheres to GB
domestic hours rules, then am I legally obliged to make a manual entry for the time unaccounted for since my last card withdrawal. Which in my case would be around a fortnight!
Bear in mind I would already be recording my main employment hours on charts and perhaps even a
small notebook to account for this NON hgv time period.
The only instance I can see where I need to make a manual entry, is if I do any other work before
or after inserting/ejecting my card on my agency shifts! Is this correct?
If the van is no more than 3.5t you won’t need to keep records so probably wouldn’t be using charts or a log book, if it’s more than 3.5t and fitted with an analogue tachograph as your post suggests (I would already be recording my main employment hours on charts), why is it exempt from EU regulations ?
Anyway, in weeks that you drive in-scope of EU regulations you’re required to keep records of work done on none driving days on printouts or charts or a log book if you’re using one, tear off a piece of printing paper and write the start and finish times with your name and sign it, some people have said that they’ve been told by enforcement officers that records in a notebook will suffice but I can’t confirm that, legally the records should be on printouts/charts or in a log book.
You only need to keep these records for the weeks that you drive in-scope of EU regulations.
Don’t try to put manual entries for the week into a tachograph, it will be time consuming and there’s a likelihood of mistakes, as said, use the ? symbol for the time between the end of the last tachograph shift and the start of the current shift.
Thanks for the detailed answer Tachograph… Are you saying I DON’T need to keep any record of my time spent in my other job which is
driving a Ford transit van? ( Between 37.5 and 50+ hours per week in my case! )
Incidentally, my van is NOT a 3.5t and does NOT require a tachograph… I may be mistaken, but I thought I read a post from either yourself
or ROG that said it is necessary to keep a record of any other work done in a main job and preferably on charts or printouts, so that is what I done!
However, it would suit me just fine to do one manual entry every fortnight to cover the time unnaccounted for in my main job & not faff around with
charts…
Although, I don’t recall seeing the ? symbol on the Stoneridge tacho that I used that day!
dozy:
Whether there legal or not , good practise you should be doing them , there not exactly hard to do
And as tango says 15 mins beginning/ end of shift is a extra 2 1/2 hrs pay p.w
Have you tried to do a manual entry for 2 weeks work and keep a track of what you’re putting in, very easy to mess up.
No… it was only one entry to cover the week I did on my main job NON hgv van driving!
dozy:
Whether there legal or not , good practise you should be doing them , there not exactly hard to do
And as tango says 15 mins beginning/ end of shift is a extra 2 1/2 hrs pay p.w
Have you tried to do a manual entry for 2 weeks work and keep a track of what you’re putting in, very easy to mess up.
No… I only attempted to do one manual entry to cover the last withdrawal of my card which was the previous Saturday
However, as I’ve barely used my digi card in 8 years I started off entering my last withdrawal date & time, but got confused
half way through the procedure and I’m not sure whether I also managed to finish the manual entry before it reverted to the
home screen and at that point I just said. "Sod it! " & carried on with my actual shift for that day!
So would a partial ( incomplete! ) or wrong manual entry register as an infringement? Obviously, I took all my legal EU Hours
& WTD breaks at the right times, etc?
8 years they only last 5 don’t they before they are replaced
Sorry, forgot to mention… it was a new card which I sent for after my last one expired! I only got around to doing my CPC last year too!
