Anyone else stuck on M1(S)?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Complete standstill not far from Luton.

Already down to one lane due to roadworks. I cant see much except the artic driver in front of me is getting his thermos out. When I see the tartan picnic blanket Ill have a nap :stuck_out_tongue:

Quick question, Is it above board to put tacho on break and count it as a 15/45 if im here long enough?

2

Yes. Your not moving. Can have 15/45

3

Yeah, I was in it about the time you posted. They keep putting in short total closures some nights at the moment for the gantry works, could well be the same tomorrow as they also did it last Friday night/Saturday morning. And yes, you can stick it on break and relax if you wish.

4

Tried that. But Sod’s law, traffic moves half way through!

5

We could have just got a 15 in this morning, and last Saturday morning, if we had needed one. Always worth trying and if the traffic moves before you complete the break you haven’t lost anything.

6

Coffeeholic:
Yeah, I was in it about the time you posted. They keep putting in short total closures some nights at the moment for the gantry works, could well be the same tomorrow as they also did it last Friday night/Saturday morning. And yes, you can stick it on break and relax if you wish.

Officially they try and get the gantrys up just using a rolling roadblock north and south, (but i guess the best laid plans) :unamused:

7

paullus:

Coffeeholic:
Yeah, I was in it about the time you posted. They keep putting in short total closures some nights at the moment for the gantry works, could well be the same tomorrow as they also did it last Friday night/Saturday morning. And yes, you can stick it on break and relax if you wish.

Officially they try and get the gantrys up just using a rolling roadblock north and south, (but i guess the best laid plans) :unamused:

Yeah, there ain’t been much rolling unfortunately.

8

Sat in that for just over half an hour. If they’d put a warning on the other bloody gantries we could have diverted. :imp:

9

andy187:
Yes. Your not moving. Can have 15/45

It would be POA not break - If Vosa caught you taking a break in the middle of the M1, I’m sure they’d take a dim view to it!

Of course, booking 15 mins in this way leaves you unlikely to be caught in the first place, so it’s one of those things you’ll probably get away with. :confused:

Vosa told me that if you were stuck for what looks like over half and hour, then POA is “acceptable”. Break is right out!

Thou shalt not count four, and neither shall the number of the counting be two. Five is right out!

10

Winseer:

andy187:
Yes. Your not moving. Can have 15/45

It would be POA not break - If Vosa caught you taking a break in the middle of the M1, I’m sure they’d take a dim view to it!

Of course, booking 15 mins in this way leaves you unlikely to be caught in the first place, so it’s one of those things you’ll probably get away with. :confused:

Vosa told me that if you were stuck for what looks like over half and hour, then POA is “acceptable”. Break is right out!

Thou shalt not count four, and neither shall the number of the counting be two. Five is right out!

Nonsense, if you want to put the tacho on break whilst you are sat in a traffic jam, thats entirely your decision. There are no rules relating to where or when you take a break as long as its within the rules of EU drivers hours. If the traffic is at a standstill and you need or want to take a break, then why not, after all it may be to your benefit.

11

And yet people wonder why we need the dcpc

12

Winseer:
It would be POA not break - If Vosa caught you taking a break in the middle of the M1, I’m sure they’d take a dim view to it!

Of course, booking 15 mins in this way leaves you unlikely to be caught in the first place, so it’s one of those things you’ll probably get away with. :confused:

Vosa told me that if you were stuck for what looks like over half and hour, then POA is “acceptable”. Break is right out!

By that reasoning, any break other than one taken at home is POA and not break.
If you have 45 mins at an RDC, you’re with the truck and available to drive it. So is that POA.
What about in the services? You’re available to drive it, is that POA or break?

If the vehicle is stopped and you’re not driving it, why can that not be a break?

13

Basically it’s not a break because you are not free to dispose of your time ie lay on the bunk, get out and go for a walk etc.

14

Muckaway:
Basically it’s not a break because you are not free to dispose of your time ie lay on the bunk, get out and go for a walk etc.

Why complicate matters, if it’s in the rules follow them if it’s not in the rules don’t worry!
Nowhere in the drivers hours rules does it say that a driver must be free to dispose of their time, it now states, as highlighted below, ‘a break is used soley for recuperation’. If the traffic is stood still for 2 hours, are you not allowed to go to sleep, read a book, play on your phone/computer, get out and chat to other motorists. It doesn’t mean you are confined to the cab. How many times have you been stuck in a major jam and got out of the cab to chat to others, i know i have.

GV 262 Rules on Drivers’ Hours and Tachographs Goods vehicles in GB and Europe
Page 17

Breaks and driving limits
Breaks
After a driving period of no more than 4.5 hours, a driver must immediately take a break of at least 45 minutes unless he takes a rest period. A break taken in this way must not be interrupted.
A break is any period during which a driver may not carry out any driving or any other work and which is used exclusively for recuperation. A break may be taken in a moving vehicle, provided no other work is undertaken.
Alternatively, a full 45-minute break can be replaced by one break of at least 15 minutes followed by another break of at least 30 minutes. These breaks must be distributed over the 4.5-hour period.
Breaks of less than 15 minutes will not contribute towards a qualifying break, but neither will they be counted as duty or driving time. The EU rules will only allow a split-break pattern that shows the second period of break being at least 30 minutes, such as in the following examples:
Driving
A driver ‘wipes the slate clean’ if he takes a 45-minute break (or qualifying breaks totalling 45 minutes before or at the end of a 4.5-hour driving period. This means that the next 4.5-hour driving period begins with the completion of that qualifying break, and in assessing break requirements for the new 4.5-hour period, no reference is to be made to driving time accumulated before this point.
Breaks may also be required under the separate Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005.

15

Don’t you have to be told how long you will be held up for in advance to be poa, can’t see that happening.

16

Winseer:

andy187:
Yes. Your not moving. Can have 15/45

It would be POA not break - If Vosa caught you taking a break in the middle of the M1, I’m sure they’d take a dim view to it!

Rubbish, there is nothing in the requirements of a normal break that is dependant on location so why would VOSA care if you were in a lay-by, MSA, middle of a field or lane 2 of the M1? It certainly could not be POA as you would not know the duration in advance. While we were sat there this morning my mate was having a cigarette and I was having a coffee and browsing the net on my phone so we met all the requirements for a period to be break, no driving, no other work and using the time for recuperation.

Muckaway:
Basically it’s not a break because you are not free to dispose of your time ie lay on the bunk, get out and go for a walk etc.

Being free to dispose of your time is for rest, not break.

russell2587:
Don’t you have to be told how long you will be held up for in advance to be poa, can’t see that happening.

Or know the likely duration based on experience, neither of which would apply to a traffic jam for roadworks or an accident.

Cool breeze.

17

Things must have changed somewhat or I was taught wrong , if the engine is running then No BREAK and you are not allowed to be behind the wheel are you ?

18

JLS Driver SOS:
Things must have changed somewhat or I was taught wrong

Probably, especially if any of your teachings came from an RDC and given the last sentence of your post about the steering wheel they may have. :wink: :smiley:

JLS Driver SOS:
if the engine is running then No BREAK

The definition of driving is different for the Road Traffic Act and the tacho regs, and whether the engine is running or not makes no difference to a tacho break. You could take an entire 45 minute break with the engine running if you wished because you aren’t driving. Not that it matters but all the vehicles near us in the delay this morning had their engines off anyway.

JLS Driver SOS:
and you are not allowed to be behind the wheel are you ?

Driver’s Urban Myth alert. :smiley: :wink: Nothing in the regulations to prevent you having a break in the driver’s seat.

This is the definition of break under 561/2006,

‘break’ means any period during which a driver may not
carry out any driving or any other work and which is
used exclusively for recuperation;

and as long as you meet those conditions then it’s a break. Nothing in there about location, or seats, or steering wheels, or free to dispose of your time or any of the other nonsense you hear. People add that stuff into the requirements for break and then get confused. If something isn’t in the regulations it is not required and it shouldn’t be added in.

It’s strange seeing people claim it can be POA but not break when any period which qualifies as POA would certainly qualify as break because the conditions for a break are less than for POA.

19

Coffeeholic:

JLS Driver SOS:
Things must have changed somewhat or I was taught wrong

Probably, especially if any of your teachings came from an RDC and given the last sentence of your post about the steering wheel they may have. :wink: :smiley:

JLS Driver SOS:
if the engine is running then No BREAK

The definition of driving is different for the Road Traffic Act and the tacho regs, and whether the engine is running or not makes no difference to a tacho break. You could take an entire 45 minute break with the engine running if you wished because you aren’t driving. Not that it matters but all the vehicles near us in the delay this morning had their engines off anyway.

JLS Driver SOS:
and you are not allowed to be behind the wheel are you ?

Driver’s Urban Myth alert. :smiley: :wink: Nothing in the regulations to prevent you having a break in the driver’s seat.

This is the definition of break under 561/2006,

‘break’ means any period during which a driver may not
carry out any driving or any other work and which is
used exclusively for recuperation;

and as long as you meet those conditions then it’s a break. Nothing in there about location, or seats, or steering wheels, or free to dispose of your time or any of the other nonsense you hear. People add that stuff into the requirements for break and then get confused. If something isn’t in the regulations it is not required and it shouldn’t be added in.

It’s strange seeing people claim it can be POA but not break when any period which qualifies as POA would certainly qualify as break because the conditions for a break are less than for POA.

+1

20

Coffeeholic:

JLS Driver SOS:
Things must have changed somewhat or I was taught wrong

Probably, especially if any of your teachings came from an RDC and given the last sentence of your post about the steering wheel they may have. :wink: :smiley:

JLS Driver SOS:
if the engine is running then No BREAK

The definition of driving is different for the Road Traffic Act and the tacho regs, and whether the engine is running or not makes no difference to a tacho break. You could take an entire 45 minute break with the engine running if you wished because you aren’t driving. Not that it matters but all the vehicles near us in the delay this morning had their engines off anyway.

JLS Driver SOS:
and you are not allowed to be behind the wheel are you ?

Driver’s Urban Myth alert. :smiley: :wink: Nothing in the regulations to prevent you having a break in the driver’s seat.

This is the definition of break under 561/2006,

‘break’ means any period during which a driver may not
carry out any driving or any other work and which is
used exclusively for recuperation;

and as long as you meet those conditions then it’s a break. Nothing in there about location, or seats, or steering wheels, or free to dispose of your time or any of the other nonsense you hear. People add that stuff into the requirements for break and then get confused. If something isn’t in the regulations it is not required and it shouldn’t be added in.

It’s strange seeing people claim it can be POA but not break when any period which qualifies as POA would certainly qualify as break because the conditions for a break are less than for POA.

^+1.

Unless there’s some obscure rule out there that says you cannot turn the engine off or leave it running as you please while reading a newspaper and the driver must remain in full control of the vehicle with hands at the 10 to 2 position on the steering wheel with the tacho set on driving while stuck sitting stationary in a zb great big traffic jam that may last for hours. :open_mouth: :smiling_imp: :laughing: :laughing: