Contraflow:
chester:
It’s the sanctimonious attitude of this site…sanctimonious
adjective
- making a show of being morally superior to other people.
Remind you of anyone, chester?
You crack me up with the one liners
Ive done the cross rail induction and hackney council done a cycle awerness cpc module which was offered free by hackney council to anyone who lives or works in the borugh. It is worthwhile as it keeps it in your mind but we do need to promote the danger to cyclists of cycling up the inside of traffic which is the biggest problem.
Get adverts on tv and online. Get them in the paper and magazines.
Get police on the street stopping ■■■■■■■■ drivers which there are and stopping ■■■■■■■■ cyclists which there are.
London is a brilliant city it needs trucks to survive we are loiking to help reduce congestion which cycling can help in.
At the end of the day we are trying to earn a living cyclists are only trying to get about the same as us we need to co exist and get on with it.
FarnboroughBoy11:
Carryfast:
FarnboroughBoy11:
Rikki-UK:
It must get to the stage where the " them and us" culture of blaming each other stops - and a process of education for all starts.I am no fan of greater “training” for training sake - but could it be time for a training programme for truck drivers wanting to drive within London to be educated about the problems of cyclists? (could count towards the DCPC) and if cyclist want to use Londons roads they would have to had “other road user awareness training”- simply enforced on both sides that if driving/cycling in London you must hold a current road user awareness card - if you do something stupid and are caught you lose the right to drive/cycle in London-caught without a permit/ truck is impounded until a qualified driver arrives- cyclist gets bike permantly confiscated
This way both truck drivers and cyclists have equal responsibilities and equal possible sanctions - tis only an idea, but something has to change- there is too many dead cyclists and too many drivers trying to live with whats happened
While I agree, I think that more responsibility has to come from the cyclists, that’s just how I feel.
It really can’t be an issue of both being at fault it’s a case of one or the other.In the case of truck drivers their LGV training and examination standards ‘should be’ sufficient to cover all eventualities because there’s no way that a two tier in town and out of town training system would work safely.What seems to be happening is that a specific road user group is managing to put itself into the position where those normal parameters,required to drive a truck safely,in the use of mirrors,is being defeated and no amount of shouting at drivers to use their mirrors more will help because they’re already doing that in order to drive a truck safely anyway.The limiting factor being blind spots and not being able to drive a truck just on what’s happening in the nearside mirrors.Which then just leaves the last line of defence being that sixth sense that says someone or something ‘might’ be there on the nearside when making a turn even though nothing is showing in the mirrors.That sixth sense isn’t something that can be trained into anyone and won’t be provided by a piece of paper.
Which realistically just leaves the issues in regards to cyclists in that their vulnerability is always going to be an issue of the law of averages from the collision with large vehicles point of view in which the more cyclists there are who want to ride cycles on the road,as opposed to off road wherever and whenever possible,the more odds of collision there will be and undertaking large vehicles in the course of that will just add massively to those odds.
As for the current statistics they are actually not any different to those provided over the previous two years.It’s just that this year they seem to be taking place in a higher concentration at the end of the year.
I didn’t say both would be at fault, I said more responsibility has to come from the cyclists. You can train and train and train the truck drivers all you want but no matter what you do, you can’t stop a cyclist coming up the inside of you on that split second when your checking or looking elsewhere.
In an ideal world we would have the same number of eyes in our head as the same amount of mirrors we have to look in.
It’s not hard at all, it really isn’t, don’t ride up the inside of large vehicles.
Such a waste.
^ This.I was actually agreeing with you and disagreeing with Rikki’s idea.
FarnboroughBoy11:
Slackbladder:
Has it ever been the case where a cyclist has been at a junction & a truck has come up along side them? I only ask because it’s always assumed on here that it’s the other way around.Oh yeah if that’s the case then the truck driver deserves everything he gets.
You can take it how you like, the fact is it does happen. It’s not all one way traffic, sometimes, just sometimes it’s the drivers fault.
Slackbladder:
Has it ever been the case where a cyclist has been at a junction & a truck has come up along side them? I only ask because it’s always assumed on here that it’s the other way around.
If a cyclist is there first and a truck driver decided to overtake them at the same time as intending to turn left or in fact any situation whereby that driver turned left while knowing that the cyclist was,or might be,there at the side,that would be the most stupid unbelievable possibility bearing in mind that it would/should be a guaranteed way to end up at the wrong end of causing death by dangerous driving charge.However if that scenario is really happening then it would be a massive failing in driver training to the point where trucks would be an unviable safety hazard on the roads.
A few years back I took a new driver out and he used the lorry to bully and harass cyclists. So it does go on.
Carryfast:
Slackbladder:
Has it ever been the case where a cyclist has been at a junction & a truck has come up along side them? I only ask because it’s always assumed on here that it’s the other way around.If a cyclist is there first and a truck driver decided to overtake them at the same time as intending to turn left or in fact any situation whereby that driver turned left while knowing that the cyclist was,or might be,there at the side,that would be the most stupid unbelievable possibility bearing in mind that it would/should be a guaranteed way to end up at the wrong end of causing death by dangerous driving charge.However if that scenario is really happening then it would be a massive failing in driver training to the point where trucks would be an unviable safety hazard on the roads.
The trouble is nowadays I see poor driving all the time, just look at the plethora of poor driving stories throughout this forum, nothing surprises me on the roads anymore. As I posted earlier one of those killed didn’t even have to turn left, he got away from the lights before the truck who then ran straight into him killing him, as reported by eyewitnesses. Again, look at those HGV stopped in London today, as well as cyclists, to point out safety. One driver, a Belgian, had driven 10 hours with no break! He’s in London central FFS.
Slackbladder:
One driver, a Belgian, had driven 10 hours with no break! He’s in London central FFS.
Be careful in assuming he didn’t have a break, the press love to report this, what they get told be VOSA or the Police is that the driver hasn’t had enough break, this could actually mean anything from no break to only having 40 minutes or if it’s rest 8hrs 55 minutes. But it gets twisted by the press.
Police stopped 20 heavy goods vehicles at a checkpoint on Vauxhall Bridge and found offences relating to 10 lorries or their drivers.
Officers are investigating suspected irregularities with five more lorries. Only five were satisfactory.
Police said they identified 60 offences – the vast majority concerning drivers exceeding the limits on the time they are allowed to drive.
Two lorries were found to be dangerous, one with a serious tyre defect that left it in danger of bursting.
More than 45 officers took part in the initiative at three sites in London – Vauxhall Bridge, Whitechapel High Street and Albert Embankment.
Good advice: police at the Vauxhall Bridge checkpoint speak to cyclists about staying safe on the road
It came after five cyclists were killed in nine days in the capital.
Sergeant Richard Golding, of the Met’s Traffic Command, said: “The two biggest HGV offences are drivers’ hours and how long they go without a break.Â
“We stopped one Belgian man who had driven 10 hours without stopping at one point, which obviously makes him tired and is very dangerous.”
Lorry drivers can drive for a maximum of nine hours a day and have to take a 45-minute break every four and a half hours.
More than 100 cyclists were also stopped in today’s operation and given advice or warnings for issues such as not wearing helmets or using headphones while cycling.
Chief Superintendent Glyn Jones, of Traffic Command, said: “The advantage of stopping both cyclists and lorry drivers in sight of one another is that quite often when you stop one, they complain the other hasn’t been stopped and vice versa. If we can target this effort during the rush hour, it will help things a lot as this is when the majority of cyclists are killed.”
Cyclists at the scene in Vauxhall generally welcomed the initiative.
Student Portia Reese-Jones, 20, who lives in Clapham Junction, said it was “a good idea”.
Today police said they had identified a cyclist who died in Whitechapel High Street last Wednesday, though they are not yet releasing his name at his family’s request.
The man, aged 21, from St John’s Wood, died after a collision with a bus. He was the 13th cyclist to be killed on London’s roads this year.
Slackbladder:
Police stopped 20 heavy goods vehicles at a checkpoint on Vauxhall Bridge and found offences relating to 10 lorries or their drivers.Officers are investigating suspected irregularities with five more lorries. Only five were satisfactory.
Police said they identified 60 offences – the vast majority concerning drivers exceeding the limits on the time they are allowed to drive.
Two lorries were found to be dangerous, one with a serious tyre defect that left it in danger of bursting.
Sergeant Richard Golding, of the Met’s Traffic Command, said: “The two biggest HGV offences are drivers’ hours and how long they go without a break.Â
“We stopped one Belgian man who had driven 10 hours without stopping at one point, which obviously makes him tired and is very dangerous.”
Fair enough, 
just you sometimes have to be careful when you read those reports as when you dig deeper you seen the lack of rest might have only been a few minutes, still an offence but the way it’s reported is that the drivers hasn’t slept for days, which sounds a lot worse.
The other thing they don’t report it that quite often they pull trucks over that are targeted, so more likely to find faults, but the public see 75% of the trucks were illegal and think that represents the whole haulage industry.
Carryfast:
FarnboroughBoy11:
Carryfast:
FarnboroughBoy11:
Rikki-UK:
It must get to the stage where the " them and us" culture of blaming each other stops - and a process of education for all starts.I am no fan of greater “training” for training sake - but could it be time for a training programme for truck drivers wanting to drive within London to be educated about the problems of cyclists? (could count towards the DCPC) and if cyclist want to use Londons roads they would have to had “other road user awareness training”- simply enforced on both sides that if driving/cycling in London you must hold a current road user awareness card - if you do something stupid and are caught you lose the right to drive/cycle in London-caught without a permit/ truck is impounded until a qualified driver arrives- cyclist gets bike permantly confiscated
This way both truck drivers and cyclists have equal responsibilities and equal possible sanctions - tis only an idea, but something has to change- there is too many dead cyclists and too many drivers trying to live with whats happened
While I agree, I think that more responsibility has to come from the cyclists, that’s just how I feel.
It really can’t be an issue of both being at fault it’s a case of one or the other.In the case of truck drivers their LGV training and examination standards ‘should be’ sufficient to cover all eventualities because there’s no way that a two tier in town and out of town training system would work safely.What seems to be happening is that a specific road user group is managing to put itself into the position where those normal parameters,required to drive a truck safely,in the use of mirrors,is being defeated and no amount of shouting at drivers to use their mirrors more will help because they’re already doing that in order to drive a truck safely anyway.The limiting factor being blind spots and not being able to drive a truck just on what’s happening in the nearside mirrors.Which then just leaves the last line of defence being that sixth sense that says someone or something ‘might’ be there on the nearside when making a turn even though nothing is showing in the mirrors.That sixth sense isn’t something that can be trained into anyone and won’t be provided by a piece of paper.
Which realistically just leaves the issues in regards to cyclists in that their vulnerability is always going to be an issue of the law of averages from the collision with large vehicles point of view in which the more cyclists there are who want to ride cycles on the road,as opposed to off road wherever and whenever possible,the more odds of collision there will be and undertaking large vehicles in the course of that will just add massively to those odds.
As for the current statistics they are actually not any different to those provided over the previous two years.It’s just that this year they seem to be taking place in a higher concentration at the end of the year.
I didn’t say both would be at fault, I said more responsibility has to come from the cyclists. You can train and train and train the truck drivers all you want but no matter what you do, you can’t stop a cyclist coming up the inside of you on that split second when your checking or looking elsewhere.
In an ideal world we would have the same number of eyes in our head as the same amount of mirrors we have to look in.
It’s not hard at all, it really isn’t, don’t ride up the inside of large vehicles.
Such a waste.^ This.I was actually agreeing with you and disagreeing with Rikki’s idea.
Yeah I know man, I was just saying.
Slackbladder:
FarnboroughBoy11:
Slackbladder:
Has it ever been the case where a cyclist has been at a junction & a truck has come up along side them? I only ask because it’s always assumed on here that it’s the other way around.Oh yeah if that’s the case then the truck driver deserves everything he gets.
You can take it how you like, the fact is it does happen. It’s not all one way traffic, sometimes, just sometimes it’s the drivers fault.
What are you on about, I just said it would be the truck drivers fault in that case.
Apologies, I thought you were being ironic.
Just gets better! Could we not all amalgamate? Trucknet, CTC and Bike Radar? That would solve all the ‘problems’ Amazing what talking can do. I am more than surprised to read some of the comments on here, more helpful/supportive of biking than some of the comments on bike forums! See, just goes to prove that the vast majority of people are perfectly normal! And, no, we don’t need ranting, screaming stereotyping, thanks
When we all want the same thing its shouldn’t be difficult to try some quick solutions that might save lives, we can discuss cyclists up the inside in blindspots, better warning devices on trucks, some more driver training, more cyclist training for the long term.
We need a short term solution now, I’m with Chris Boardman on this- lets try a rush hour ban on HGV’s and see what happens, it may compress HGV traffic into the day but surely their will be less cyclists about when most are at work by the time the ban is lifted.
But will it just put added pressure on drivers to complete their work in time and put the cyclists on the road during the day (outside peak periods) in even more danger.
It has to be an all day ban or not at all.
No HGV’s (over 7.5T) within the city between 7am & 7pm Mon-Fri (hours debatable). Create a culture whereby people know that if they want a HGV delivery in London city centre is has to be early morning, later on or at the weekend. If you must have your delivery inside the hours for whatever reason, there is a permit system in place. I think it could work, making roads safer for cyclists and reducing the amount of traffic at the same time.
Don’t see why any drivers should campaign against it. No London at rush hour, bring it on 
rob22888:
Don’t see why any drivers should campaign against it. No London at rush hour, bring it on
+1
Make the roads safer for cyclists and easier for us, win-win.
Edit:
This may be a bit confusing for the cycling lobby & Nimby groups (who hate trucks with a passion) and they would not be happy if they knew we wanted the same thing, so if some of us could pretend we don’t want a ban that would be nice.
rob22888:
It has to be an all day ban or not at all.No HGV’s (over 7.5T) within the city between 7am & 7pm Mon-Fri (hours debatable). Create a culture whereby people know that if they want a HGV delivery in London city centre is has to be early morning, later on or at the weekend. If you must have your delivery inside the hours for whatever reason, there is a permit system in place. I think it could work, making roads safer for cyclists and reducing the amount of traffic at the same time.
Don’t see why any drivers should campaign against it. No London at rush hour, bring it on
But, someone is sure going to p off the neighbours when DFS come round to deliver their new sofa at 3am. Likewise when do the bin trucks do the rounds? They are noisy enough during the day, I can just see the outcry when they are clattering about at stupid o’clock in the morning.
Trucker’s Girl:
rob22888:
It has to be an all day ban or not at all.No HGV’s (over 7.5T) within the city between 7am & 7pm Mon-Fri (hours debatable). Create a culture whereby people know that if they want a HGV delivery in London city centre is has to be early morning, later on or at the weekend. If you must have your delivery inside the hours for whatever reason, there is a permit system in place. I think it could work, making roads safer for cyclists and reducing the amount of traffic at the same time.
Don’t see why any drivers should campaign against it. No London at rush hour, bring it on
But, someone is sure going to p off the neighbours when DFS come round to deliver their new sofa at 3am. Likewise when do the bin trucks do the rounds? They are noisy enough during the day, I can just see the outcry when they are clattering about at stupid o’clock in the morning.
From the driver’s point of view it would be a lot easier working in town at night.While assuming that the rule is ( rightly ) all about the fact that large vehicles are totally incompatible sharing the roads with cyclists then that would obviously mean that cyclists will need to be banned from all roads nationally at all times where large vehicles are in use. 
That’s assuming that the whole thing isn’t really just the politicians and the cycling lobby,cynically taking advantage of cyclist casualties,to gradually introduce a scheme of restrictions,on all types of motorised vehicle use,in order to give the roads over to the cyclist cause.Where better to do that than in the communist people’s republic of London.
Carryfast:
Trucker’s Girl:
rob22888:
It has to be an all day ban or not at all.No HGV’s (over 7.5T) within the city between 7am & 7pm Mon-Fri (hours debatable). Create a culture whereby people know that if they want a HGV delivery in London city centre is has to be early morning, later on or at the weekend. If you must have your delivery inside the hours for whatever reason, there is a permit system in place. I think it could work, making roads safer for cyclists and reducing the amount of traffic at the same time.
Don’t see why any drivers should campaign against it. No London at rush hour, bring it on
But, someone is sure going to p off the neighbours when DFS come round to deliver their new sofa at 3am. Likewise when do the bin trucks do the rounds? They are noisy enough during the day, I can just see the outcry when they are clattering about at stupid o’clock in the morning.
From the driver’s point of view it would be a lot easier working in town at night.While assuming that the rule is ( rightly ) all about the fact that large vehicles are totally incompatible sharing the roads with cyclists then that would obviously mean that cyclists will need to be banned from all roads nationally at all times where large vehicles are in use.
That’s assuming that the whole thing isn’t really just the politicians and the cycling lobby,cynically taking advantage of cyclist casualties,to gradually introduce a scheme of restrictions,on all types of motorised vehicle use,in order to give the roads over to the cyclist cause.Where better to do that than in the communist people’s republic of London.
so you have a truck ban at times and a cycle ban at others ■■ sod that just stay out of London end of…