Dipper_Dave:
Carryfast:
kr79:
I’ve been following something on the London cycling campaigns facebook page which is mind blowing.
The ignorance from both sides is more about trying to point score than trying to make things better
I don’t think there is any room left for compromise with the cyclist cause who are in general a bunch of nutters.Most of who are short of a full set of marbles as soon as they hit the road on their chosen form of transport and who have the support of the government because it fits the political Socialist/Con alliance of the cheap labour and class war agendas.The only good thing is that realising that at least helps anyone with any sense to try to avoid them and their suicidal actions and views concerning road use as and whenever possible.
I hope there will always be room for compromise, perhaps the plethora of vocal cyclists on the internet are in the minority and any truck driver who thinks they have a right to roadspace are also in the minority.
I do agree that every truck driver by now should realise the risks cyclists can pose and treat them in the same as they would if a loved one was on the bike .
We have to drive in a manner to ensure their safety and give them room to get out of any self inflicted danger, maybe tipper drivers in London could just relax a bit and leave room and not drive like penisheads but in my experience this is not going to be possible.
But in a double bagging / safety technique cyclists need to be accountable for the stupid manouvers they perform. reckon a compulsory hi viz vest with a unique number on it would put some manners on those that want to preach the rules but don’t want to play by them. This would also level the playing field a bit and may save lives.
One things for sure more cyclists will die a painfull death this year and more truck drivers will have to live with the misery of taking another human life.
I think at worse there might be a few ‘tipper’ ( amongst other ) drivers that are overtaking cyclists when there is no point on the approach to a left turn as in the example previously.However that in itself isn’t what is taking out cyclists during left turns.That can only mainly be a case of the cyclist and the truck/bus/car entering the actual junction side by side together.In which case obviously the truck driver at least won’t/can’t always see the cyclist whereas the cyclist can always see the truck/bus/car.While rule 73 of the highway code regards cyclists and junctions is the relevant reference in that case.Meanwhile we’ve already got the cyclist agenda answer to that here in that they see it as better to undertake and attempt to outrun in all such cases.Which is where the real problem is. 
Rhythm Thief:
109LWB:
Unfortunately there is a mindset within the cycling community that as they are the vulnerable road users, everyone should pander to them.
I was a member of a cycling forum and had to leave as the the mentality of quite a few of the posters was unbelievable. They just would not accept any responsibility for their own wellbeing… The response was always “every one should avoid us”.
It was always someone else’s responsibility to ensure thier safety, but never thier own.
I tried to make the point clear that as the most vulnerable road users, you should be doing everything possible to preserve your own safety, but then I got accused of victim blaming and I just had to quit before I exploded.
With that mentality, there is always going to be incidents like this, as you can’t educate morons.
Hi 109LWB (Land Rover enthusiast, by any chance?),
It’s interesting you should say that … I found exactly the same with a very vocal minority of posters on a well known cycling forum. Like you, I’m a cyclist and lorry driver, like you I tried to get across the point that it’s worth just keeping clear of lorries on the road and like you, I was accused of blaming the victim. The point at which I gave up was when a few of the forum members were seriously arguing that anyone riding a bike without lights on a fast unlit A road should be safe, since it was the motorist’s job to drive at a speed at which they can be seen and avoided. It’s true up to a point, but how do you argue with people who think like that?
Bike Radar by any chance? I used to go on that forum but due to similar attitudes mentioned havent been on for years. They dont just hate lorries, anything thats not a bicycle is the enemy, they dont even really like Mountain Bikes on the Road bike forum.
Rich_T:
Rhythm Thief:
109LWB:
Unfortunately there is a mindset within the cycling community that as they are the vulnerable road users, everyone should pander to them.
I was a member of a cycling forum and had to leave as the the mentality of quite a few of the posters was unbelievable. They just would not accept any responsibility for their own wellbeing… The response was always “every one should avoid us”.
It was always someone else’s responsibility to ensure thier safety, but never thier own.
I tried to make the point clear that as the most vulnerable road users, you should be doing everything possible to preserve your own safety, but then I got accused of victim blaming and I just had to quit before I exploded.
With that mentality, there is always going to be incidents like this, as you can’t educate morons.
Hi 109LWB (Land Rover enthusiast, by any chance?),
It’s interesting you should say that … I found exactly the same with a very vocal minority of posters on a well known cycling forum. Like you, I’m a cyclist and lorry driver, like you I tried to get across the point that it’s worth just keeping clear of lorries on the road and like you, I was accused of blaming the victim. The point at which I gave up was when a few of the forum members were seriously arguing that anyone riding a bike without lights on a fast unlit A road should be safe, since it was the motorist’s job to drive at a speed at which they can be seen and avoided. It’s true up to a point, but how do you argue with people who think like that?
Bike Radar by any chance? I used to go on that forum but due to similar attitudes mentioned havent been on for years. They dont just hate lorries, anything thats not a bicycle is the enemy, they dont even really like Mountain Bikes on the Road bike forum.
As with all forums there are a few outspoken armchair individuals whos relentless purpose is not only to be right but that everyone else is wrong and to bash home their point of view to a point that everyone else gives up. The sad fact is that some will believe the nonsense they come out with. In the end the only solution to cyclists dieing is mutual understanding / co-operation and accountability for cyclists.
At the moment the rule book doesn’t apply as with no accountability there can be no rules.
[Oh ehh, just my opinion ■■■ ■■■ it if you like, honest 
]
Rich_T:
Bike Radar by any chance? I used to go on that forum but due to similar attitudes mentioned havent been on for years. They dont just hate lorries, anything thats not a bicycle is the enemy, they dont even really like Mountain Bikes on the Road bike forum.
As I said nutters.It gets really interesting when they and their like get behind the wheel of a vehicle.I think the cylist cause logic here was that the cyclist supporting press car should have hit the tree rather than the cyclists give it some room for a couple of seconds. 
youtube.com/watch?v=ssMF73kdqm8
[/quote]
As with all forums there are a few outspoken armchair individuals whos relentless purpose is not only to be right but that everyone else is wrong and to bash home their point of view to a point that everyone else gives up. The sad fact is that some will believe the nonsense they come out with.
[Oh ehh, just my opinion ■■■ ■■■ it if you like, honest ]
[/quote]
It’s funny you should say that, its a good job this site doesn’t have anyone like that. Oh! Hang on"…who’s that following the original of this post.
If both the lorry drivers and the cyclists are right then how is that people are dying?
It’s time for both groups to jump down from their high horses and look at what is really happening here.
Examples of bad lorry driving and bad cycling are all over YouTube, so pointing out bad in the other group is a futile exercise, they can retaliate with their own examples.
The simple fact is that along with the increase in cycles on the roads, there has been an increase in injuries/deaths involving cyclists, I don’t think this is a coincidence!
The government will, through its puppets in the law enforcement agencies, blame the lorries, that’s quite obvious as they have introduced Boris Bikes, not Boris Tippers.
They should be introducing cycle lanes, separated from powered vehicles, except that isn’t feasible in London, there isn’t the room. So they don’t have a solution, which means it’s up to us, the lorry people.
I still believe that the stop sign idea is the best solution to a problem that will only get worse.
It will not prevent the more militant cyclists from harm, but it will help the ones that don’t quite get the whole concept of blind spots and the rest of it.
newmercman:
I still believe that the stop sign idea is the best solution to a problem that will only get worse.
It will not prevent the more militant cyclists from harm, but it will help the ones that don’t quite get the whole concept of blind spots and the rest of it.
I also think the idea of speccing left hand drive,at least in the case of the mostly if not all,local urban type operations like tippers and refuse trucks etc,might save a lot of aggro in trying to reduce the odds of conflict with the wrong cyclist at the wrong time in the wrong place including those more ‘militant’ type.Also bearing in mind that the line between militant v just ignorance is probably more often a blurred one with many shades of grey rather than just either or.
LHD won’t work, I have ended up with quite a few left hookers in the past as other drivers with many years of experience just couldn’t drive them. They were good drivers too.
Although having said that I have heard that quite a lot of London tippers are driven by Eastern Europeans now, so you could be onto something here Geoffrey.
newmercman:
LHD won’t work, I have ended up with quite a few left hookers in the past as other drivers with many years of experience just couldn’t drive them. They were good drivers too.
Although having said that I have heard that quite a lot of London tippers are driven by Eastern Europeans now, so you could be onto something here Geoffrey.
I don’t buy the couldn’t drive them issue.As I’ve said most of the Italian domestic running fleet was right hand drive at one time with no problems.Probably only the greater odds of taking out overtaking traffic etc,than putting the nearside wheels over a mountain side,being the probable reason for the change back to lhd.While the Swedes changed from from driving on the left and rhd to driving on the right with lhd literally over night.While I went straight from my driving test to 10 feet + wide centre drive fire trucks and then other local authority types which were left hookers with no problems.
There’s really no excuse for anyone not being able to get their head around different driving positions or gearshift side although as a born strictly left hander it was just the right hand gearshift that was the only thing which I found slightly more awkward with left/centre drive.In this case the benefits in the extra protection for cyclists in town probably outweighing any possible drawbacks.
I don’t get it either, I’ve driven a LHD rigid around London, back to the yard and did a quick local in a RHD artic and then shipped out in a LHD A frame wagon and drag, I don’t find it a problem, similarly I have always been able to jump in lorries with different gearboxes and shift patterns and not have a problem remembering where the next gear was or if I needed to use the clutch or not. I don’t have to think about it, it just happens.
But some of the other drivers that couldn’t get on with a left ■■■■■■ or a constant mesh box were very good drivers, they could put a lorry anywhere first time, every time, but it all went to ■■■■ if the steering wheel was on the other side, I don’t know why, but that’s what happens, maybe it’s a left brain/right brain thing, but in any case it doesn’t reflect badly on them in my opinion, some can and some can’t, it’s no big deal.
newmercman:
Although having said that I have heard that quite a lot of London tippers are driven by Eastern Europeans now, so you could be onto something here Geoffrey.
Not just in London, you can see Eastern Europeans driving tippers badly around Oxford, operator based in Nuneaton. 
I’ve been told they’re on trip money and a minimum number of loads. Sounds like they watched Hell Drivers to get some DCPC time.
Making them LHD is a great idea in theory (and probably much easier than getting a cyclist to admit they should pay more attention) but then what about right hand turns? You just move the problem from one side to the other.
Its been said before - All the expense,hassle and stress jusy because a group of road users cant follow the highway code properly. Yes truck drivers arn’t blameless but it seems every solution to cyclist injuries is to regulate the drivers more and more,rather than look at the possibility of putting some onus on cyclists. Any time there is a mention of it they shut it down with howls of derision about blaming the victims,supported by (manipulated) facts,figures and statistics. How do you deal with an industry that refuses to allow itself to be regulated or held accountable?
The-Snowman:
Making them LHD is a great idea in theory (and probably much easier than getting a cyclist to admit they should pay more attention) but then what about right hand turns? You just move the problem from one side to the other.
It’s obvious that using LHD in this case would change one problem for another.However the important thing is it wouldn’t be the ‘same’ problem.In that there is far less,if any,problem of vulnerable road users like cyclists getting into life threatening situations on the offside of a right turning/moving truck than there is of vice versa.At least in the case of undertaking cyclists combined with the typical left turn situation in the urban,especially inner city, environment.Having said that maybe it is also possible that the issue is massively disproportionate in London where cyclist traffic has reached saturation point.Arguably to an unviable level for it to be able to work acceptably safely in general with other traffic regardless.