Sorry if this has been asked before… I did try a few searches, and also leafed through the government document on tacho & WTD rules.
Does POA extend the 6 hour working rule?
Example of a typical shift:
Start work 17:00
Commence a 45-min break just before 23:00… all legal so far.
However, if I have 30-mins POA at 20:30, then can I extend my requirement for a break until 23:30? - effectively 6 1/2 hours after the start of my shift.
I’m inclined to think I can because the rules state that no more than 6 hours of consecutive work can be exceeded without a break. But I’m interpreting the word “work” to mean something different than “being on duty”. I just need to clear this up and bestow myself with the knowledge of those far wiser than me.
how its a break within 6 hour of 15mins? cant see how poa can affect it mid shift? more to the point cant find anything to confirm or deny it either way?
The working time regulations say that you must not work more than 6 hours without a break, however POA doesn’t count as working time, so as said you could have the break at 23:30.
tachograph:
The working time regulations say that you must not work more than 6 hours without a break, however POA doesn’t count as working time, so as said you could have the break at 23:30.
That’s what I thought, thanks. I just needed some clarity.
tachograph:
The working time regulations say that you must not work more than 6 hours without a break, however POA doesn’t count as working time, so as said you could have the break at 23:30.
What I would suggest is that if you started at 1700hrs then you have to have a break of 30 minutes by 2300hrs at the latest. POA is NOT the same as break. More importantly, you have to show on your tacho that 30 minutes break before the end of 6 hours. By using POA you would not be showing 30 minutes break before the 6 hours were up…
shirts:
What I would suggest is that if you started at 1700hrs then you have to have a break of 30 minutes by 2300hrs at the latest. POA is NOT the same as break. More importantly, you have to show on your tacho that 30 minutes break before the end of 6 hours.
shirts:
What I would suggest is that if you started at 1700hrs then you have to have a break of 30 minutes by 2300hrs at the latest. POA is NOT the same as break. More importantly, you have to show on your tacho that 30 minutes break before the end of 6 hours.
Why 30 mins and not just the 15 legally required?
Because the legal requirement states…
-mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break,
-if your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes,
-if your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes,
-breaks should be of at least 15 minutes duration.
Do not confuse it with the break needed after 4 1/2 driving (45 mins but can be split ie 15 then 30)…
shirts:
What I would suggest is that if you started at 1700hrs then you have to have a break of 30 minutes by 2300hrs at the latest. POA is NOT the same as break. More importantly, you have to show on your tacho that 30 minutes break before the end of 6 hours.
Why 30 mins and not just the 15 legally required?
Because the legal requirement states…
-mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break,
-if your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes,
-if your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes,
-breaks should be of at least 15 minutes duration.
Do not confuse it with the break needed after 4 1/2 driving (45 mins but can be split ie 15 then 30)…
Oh dear - please read it more carefully
-mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break
-breaks should be of at least 15 minutes duration.
That means at least a 15 min break must be taken for 6 hours of work
THEN we come onto the total amount of breaks required for X amount of work done in a shift
-if your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes,
OR- NOT BOTH
-if your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes,
shirts:
What I would suggest is that if you started at 1700hrs then you have to have a break of 30 minutes by 2300hrs at the latest. POA is NOT the same as break. More importantly, you have to show on your tacho that 30 minutes break before the end of 6 hours.
Why 30 mins and not just the 15 legally required?
Because the legal requirement states…
-mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break,
-if your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes,
-if your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes,
-breaks should be of at least 15 minutes duration.
Do not confuse it with the break needed after 4 1/2 driving (45 mins but can be split ie 15 then 30)…
You can have a 15-min at the 5 hour mark, and another 15-min at the 8 hour mark, for example, and you’ve satisfied both the legal requirement for breaks to be a minimum of 15-mins, and having completed 30-mins worth of breaks before 9 hours.
agree with that (15 before 6 hours and another 15 before 9 hours) but still dont get the poa extends the need for a break?
so if i work from 0600 to 1000 then have 5 hours poa whilst waiting at tosco to get on a bay you are saying i woudlnt need a break until technically 4pm so could have been at work over 10 hours before needing a break?
ezydriver:
You can have a 15-min at the 5 hour mark, and another 15-min at the 8 hour mark, for example, and you’ve satisfied both the legal requirement for breaks to be a minimum of 15-mins, and having completed 30-mins worth of breaks before 9 hours.
Correct if the work in your shift is between 6 and 9 hours
If the work in the shift is over 9 hours then you could do this legally
Assume that the total driving in this whole shift never reached 4.5 hours so we do not have to bother with driving time breaks
Work 6 hours
Break 15 mins
Work 6 hours
Break 15 mins
Work 2 hours
Break 15 mins
Work 15 mins
tachograph:
The working time regulations say that you must not work more than 6 hours without a break, however POA doesn’t count as working time, so as said you could have the break at 23:30.
What I would suggest is that if you started at 1700hrs then you have to have a break of 30 minutes by 2300hrs at the latest. POA is NOT the same as break. More importantly, you have to show on your tacho that 30 minutes break before the end of 6 hours. By using POA you would not be showing 30 minutes break before the 6 hours were up…
POA isn’t the same as break but it’s not working time either, POA does not count towards working time so the 6 hours working time is on top of any POA taken.
The other people in this thread are quite right it’s 15 minutes break for the 6 hour rule not 30 minutes, also you do not have to have the break showing on your tachograph before 6 hours, the break has to start before going over 6 hours working time, it can start bang on 6 hours working time.
If you’re total working time in the shift is between 6 and 9 hours you need to have a break of 30 minutes, but that 30 minute break can be split into 2 breaks of 15 minutes, the regulations don’t stipulate a time for the 6 hour rule break so it’s assumed to be the shortest break that’s valid for the working time regulations, which is 15 minutes.
tachograph wrote The other people in this thread are quite right it’s 15 minutes break for the 6 hour rule not 30 minutes, also you do not have to have the break showing on your tachograph before 6 hours, the break has to start before going over 6 hours working time, it can start bang on 6 hours working time.
I apologise. You are correct. It is 15 minutes in the first 6 hours. However I would not wait until “bang on 6 hours working time” as these digital tachos can have a nasty habit of adding up every bit of movement as another minutes driving, and you could easily go over the 6 hours without realising.
I also apologise for saying that POA doesn’t extend the 6 hours. It does. Have just found this on a government website…
3 hours driving + 2 hours period of availability + 3 hour other work triggers a break requirement under the Regulations (30 minutes in this example). Another 1½ hours of driving = 4½ hours driving, requiring a 30 minute break under the European drivers’ hours rules. Again, this is because the second half of a split break taken under the European drivers’ hours rules (which always takes precedent) must be at least 30 minutes long. Daily break = 60 minutes. NB If all the conditions for a break are met, then a driver could take his mandatory break during the PoA.
Would have been better if they had put - 3 hours driving 2 hours POA 3 hours other work 1/4 hr break 1 ½ hours driving ½ hr break 2 hrs driving - as that would have shown the minimum requirements
war1974:
well something new has been learned by me although still think its stupid that technically you can work almost 10 hours without needing a break
Would have been better if they had put - 3 hours driving 2 hours POA 3 hours other work 1/4 hr break 1 ½ hours driving ½ hr break 2 hrs driving - as that would have shown the minimum requirements
It doesn’t help when they use phrases like “working hours” and “working time” either…Why not all use the same ?
