hello all. just done my first days paid C+E work on friday and saturday.
i passed my C september 08 and the C+E in may this year. in that time ive done mostly 7.5t and some class 2 work(some ■■■■) with agencies and have to bide my time because of the “experience” thing. ive built a good relationship with my agency and they have been true to their word and got me on the artics. i hope this gives other newbies hope 
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Welcome mazarronjim .
WELL DONE ON BOTH PASSES AND GETTING THAT FIRST PAID CE DRIVE
Forum with some useful stuff and Forum for questions on drivers hours
thanks for the welcome
my worst nightmare came true on the first day. i really struggled backing into the loading bay and fell to pieces eventually the shunter did it for me (embarrassing). went back the next day and did it at the second attempt (couple of shunts). the reverse in the test was no help to me in this particular real life situation.
mazarronjim:
the reverse in the test was no help to me in this particular real life situation.
The test reverse and the training for it, is supposed to show you the very basics of ‘how it reacts if you do this or that’ and for that, it serves it’s purpose…
… unless you had an instructor who just taught you how to do the test reverse and nothing else - there are those that teach - turn the wheel this way so much, now reverse until you see ‘X’ and then do this - when you now see this ‘X’, do this etc etc… a good instructor teaches the principals and gives the trainee a good underpinning knowledge so that knowledge can be applied to other situations.
To improve on that basic knowledge you need this thing called experience 
Just found this…
mazarronjim
FROM HERE:
i trained in a wagon + drag and the instructor did an excellent job of breaking down the reverse exercise into stages but as others have said on here it was literally just to get me through the test rather than actually learning to reverse the truck. i did have a 4 hour course in an artic after i passed the C+E and found the reversing so different.
So it seems that you were not taught as I would advocate
ROG:
mazarronjim:
the reverse in the test was no help to me in this particular real life situation.The test reverse and the training for it, is supposed to show you the very basics of ‘how it reacts if you do this or that’ and for that, it serves it’s purpose…
… unless you had an instructor who just taught you how to do the test reverse and nothing else - there are those that teach - turn the wheel this way so much, now reverse until you see ‘X’ and then do this - when you now see this ‘X’, do this etc etc… a good instructor teaches the principals and gives the trainee a good underpinning knowledge so that knowledge can be applied to other situations.To improve on that basic knowledge you need this thing called experience
Just found this…
mazarronjim
FROM HERE:
i trained in a wagon + drag and the instructor did an excellent job of breaking down the reverse exercise into stages but as others have said on here it was literally just to get me through the test rather than actually learning to reverse the truck. i did have a 4 hour course in an artic after i passed the C+E and found the reversing so different.So it seems that you were not taught as I would advocate
that was the way i was taught and i fully understand your point
ive learnt more in the last two days driving (and reversing)
mazarronjim:
that was the way i was taught
Oh dear !!
I was going to ask who you trained with but that might be a bit inapropriate now as I have just ‘knocked’ the methods used…
ROG:
mazarronjim:
that was the way i was taughtOh dear !!
I was going to ask who you trained with but that might be a bit inapropriate now as I have just ‘knocked’ the methods used…
i have to say i have mixed feelings because i cant fault anything else about them at all. but i do feel this is a very important part of becoming a good driver, as i have already found out.
The CE reverse does seem to be the one thing that trainees have commented most on post test and I firmly believe this is mainly down to being taught the way you were.
When I started instructing in 2005 I was told by more than one instructor, who had been in instructing for years, that this WAS the proven method and had always been used to get trainees through test - with that sort of attitude towards this particular aspect of the training, is it any wonder that many come away from passing the test with no ‘real’ knowledge.
it is not ideal but i can see why they do it.
I’ve said it before, and i’ll say it again, there should be ONE reversing manouvre where the trainee has to postion THEMSELVES and back into mock bay.
Congratulations on the pass and getting work by the way
C-Kay:
I’ve said it before, and i’ll say it again, there should be ONE reversing manouvre where the trainee has to postion THEMSELVES and back into mock bay.
Hmmm… please drive to the right of the controlled stop barrier, stop past the exit of that lane, and then reverse into the conrolled stop lane… OK, silly idea but could be ‘fun’ !!
C-Kay:
I’ve said it before, and i’ll say it again, there should be ONE reversing manouvre where the trainee has to postion THEMSELVES and back into mock bay.Congratulations on the pass and getting work by the way
thanks
why dont they do it that way ?
how many loading bays have the room to reverse the same way as the test ?
C-Kay:
there should be ONE reversing manouvre where the trainee has to postion THEMSELVES and back into mock bay.
The DSA tesing area is about 60 feet (not much more than the length or an artic) by 300 feet - how could this be set up in such an area 
ROG:
C-Kay:
there should be ONE reversing manouvre where the trainee has to postion THEMSELVES and back into mock bay.The DSA tesing area is about 60 feet (not much more than the length or an artic) by 300 feet - how could this be set up in such an area
Remove the cones from the reverse they currently do? It’s better than nothing.Or maybe HGV’s should have purpose built test centres. The car test has 3 reverses, all 3 require the testee to position themselves and complete the manouvre. So why in a full size artic are you allowed to go out on the road without showing you are safe and capable when reversing?
I know the argument about extra training = extra costs, we’ve had this discussion before and i know we wont agree on it ,and i know i’m repeating myself, but a newly pass goes on a job assessment…
Assessor - could you back onto that bay please
Newly pass - ummmm…yeah sure (what and the how the hell do i do this) Hard right lock until the trailer leaves you nearside mirror, straighten the unit etc etc. Oh ■■■■, it’s not the same reverse as on my test, what do i do? I only know what my instructor told me to do so i’d pass the test, nothing else.
Assessor - sorry, you’ve failed.
Surely yourself as an instructor and ex driver must see what i’m getting at. I know you cant teach ‘how’ to reverse to the point you can do anything thrown at you, but it’s quite clear that under the current rules instructors are cutting corners, and that is 1. Unsafe, and 2. unfair and not providing the pupil with the training and skills he/she has paid good money to learn.
and Ipswich Test Centre has a huge space, i had more space on my test reverse than i’ve had in any real life situation so far. I know i’m on the farms, and had the rear steer trailer to get to grips with as well, so it’s not like most loading bays, but there was enough room inside the centre to complete a reverse which isn’t the current one…
C-Kay:
I only know what my instructor told me to do so i’d pass the test, nothing else.
So is the fault of the DSA or the instructor?
ROG:
C-Kay:
I only know what my instructor told me to do so i’d pass the test, nothing else.So is the fault of the DSA or the instructor?
That would be the instructor. However, as i said, the rules on this allow it to happen, and it seems to happen a hell of a lot. Something needs to change…
C-Kay:
That would be the instructor.
C-Kay:
Something needs to change…
YUP - the instructor
Being DSA registered does not address this issue - perhaps it should by having a proper LGV instructor training course as well as on-site reversing & in-cab assessments for instructors when they are teaching real trainees 
How are you going to know until you’ve paid and are out learning?
C-Kay:
How are you going to know until you’ve paid and are out learning?
Ask how the instructor how they are going to train you for the CE reverse - just to pass the test or will they teach the underpinning knowledge so you will have the basic principals available to use in any situation
Probably not the sort of question that comes to mind for most…
and one that most new drivers wouldn’t know what the ‘correct’ way is. I know full well nothing will change, but i think i’d rather give up driving than go back to where i was 3 months ago and learn all over again. I feel sorry for the new drivers that have to go through the same crap i/we did.