bazza123:
I’m sorry Albion but I reckon you are very wrong on car & bike ownership. This might be the case in the rest of the country, but I would say a hell of of a lot of cyclists in London don’t have some form of motor vehicle licence at all. There is simply no need for a car licence in most of Central London. No proper parking, lack of petrol stations etc etc.There are also a lot of students and migrant workers on bikes too.
The video of the bike and bus, I reckon the bus driver had little chance of spotting the cyclist and in fact stopped pretty quick when the “collision” occurred. It was completely the cyclists fault IMHO, he was going far far too fast and darting around all over the shop. Only a bellend would ride like that in London.
With regard to filtering, yes it may be legal, but not a very good idea I reckon. On a motorbike you have the speed/acceleration to get out of trouble if the traffic starts moving, on a bike it’s easy to be stuck out in no mans land.
The reason there should be cycle regulation is that everyone in a vehicle has to pass a test/s to be on the road: any fool can get on a bike at any time, it’s not a good combination.
It’s obvious all the safety modifications aren’t working, the elephant in the room is the unregulated cyclists, some of which are taking frequent risks.
No need to apologise bazza.It is just that I lived in London for over 10 years and still visit regularly. I know plenty cyclists that drive cars. In fact I do not know one that does not have a car license. Most I know use their bikes to get to work to save parking fees and find it quicker as well and use their cars at weekends. I did not realise there was a lack of petrol stations mainly because I used to deliver petrol to them.
Regarding the bus and the cyclist. The bus was stationary as the bike approached. Surely if the bus driver had checked his mirrors before moving off he would have seen him.But maybe he did see him! Certainly not completely the cyclists fault.
Regarding filtering can I ask if you ride a motor bike or a bicycle? Not a very good idea in your opinion. Well I am afraid the people that make the rules of the road have a different one. Filtering is perfectly safe if both parties abide by the rules. Again it’s generally the bad attitudes of both motorists and cyclists that causes the problems. Unfortunately a lot of drivers do not know the rules. They seem to think they do but in reality it is sometimes their own rules.
You say any fool can jump on a bicycle. Well I am afraid any fool can drive a car a bus or a lorry. That is blatantly obvious.
I used to live in London too, in Southwark. An awful lot of people use the bus to get into Town due to poor tube connections. Places like Walworth Road and Camberwell Green are packed with buses full of people on both decks. I’m sure most of these people don’t have a car. I’m pretty sure too that most people living in places like Elephant or Brixton, who might ride a bike into town, don’t own a car either. The outer suburbs like Mitcham, Sidcup, Bromley, sure they probably do.
Re the filtering, yes I do own and ride a bike, to be honest I wouldn’t dream of filtering between lanes and and two, if my chain falls off etc etc I’m stuck between accelerating vehicles. I do slowly ride up between vehicles and the kerb assuming plenty of space, and obviously hang back from large vehicles at lights and junctions. I wear a lid and a hi- viz ( ), thankfully I’m still alive. I can appreciate what it’s like to drive as well as ride, I do plenty of lifesaver glances and have been known to stop and get up onto the verge (but not ride) if a heavy or bus is having difficulty passing.
How many people in London do that?
I do ride close to the kerb, not a metre out, so I can bail out sideways onto the pavement should a mirror etc belt me. I’m vulnerable and I know it; I don’t assume I own the road.
Perhaps if some of these cyclists adopted a similar attitude we might see a reduction in casualties? There are bad drivers of course but at present the onus is far far to much on drivers and not cyclists to look out for dangers.
I’m all for cycle registration. £5 a year to cover costs?
albion1971:
On many occasions when filtering quite safely and legally you will get a car, truck or bus deliberately blocking your path.
YES, looking after you so you don’t get into a position/situation where you could get hurt or killed! I do it regularly and will continue to do so. 30 years driving professionally and not had 1 blame accident.
Absolute rubbish. For example. Motorway all traffic at a standstill.A few of us filtering in between lanes at about 15 to 20 mph keeping a safe distance from each other and some moron will swerve to block the lane. That has happened numerous times but only in this country strangely enough. Done plenty trips to Europe and guess what the drivers there do exactly the opposite. They try to make a bit more room for you. If you get caught doing what you are doing you will be prosecuted.
Sorry I meant town driving and cyclists, traffic lights roundabouts etc. To be fair though you can usually hear a motorbike and they are long gone in front out of the way. I would never block them on a motorway as you described above.
bazza123:
I used to live in London too, in Southwark. An awful lot of people use the bus to get into Town due to poor tube connections. Places like Walworth Road and Camberwell Green are packed with buses full of people on both decks. I’m sure most of these people don’t have a car. I’m pretty sure too that most people living in places like Elephant or Brixton, who might ride a bike into town, don’t own a car either. The outer suburbs like Mitcham, Sidcup, Bromley, sure they probably do.
Re the filtering, yes I do own and ride a bike, to be honest I wouldn’t dream of filtering between lanes and and two, if my chain falls off etc etc I’m stuck between accelerating vehicles. I do slowly ride up between vehicles and the kerb assuming plenty of space, and obviously hang back from large vehicles at lights and junctions. I wear a lid and a hi- viz ( ), thankfully I’m still alive. I can appreciate what it’s like to drive as well as ride, I do plenty of lifesaver glances and have been known to stop and get up onto the verge (but not ride) if a heavy or bus is having difficulty passing.
How many people in London do that?
I do ride close to the kerb, not a metre out, so I can bail out sideways onto the pavement should a mirror etc belt me. I’m vulnerable and I know it; I don’t assume I own the road.
Perhaps if some of these cyclists adopted a similar attitude we might see a reduction in casualties? There are bad drivers of course but at present the onus is far far to much on drivers and not cyclists to look out for dangers.
I’m all for cycle registration. £5 a year to cover costs?
Hmmm seems we have very different views about London and its traffic. Although I must admit not living there now I do not see it on a day to say basis. I lived in Bermondsey first of all then moved to Fulham both quite different areas regarding affluence but any bike riders I knew had a car as well.Cycling has changed over the years and not done for the same reasons as it was years ago. To make cyclists take some sort of test would be a waste of time.
Car Lorry and Bus drivers have taken tests and look at the standard of some of them.
Regarding filtering I think we are talking about different scenarios. I am talking about motorbikes rather than bicycles however I am surprised you mention about a chain coming off. The last time I had a chain come off was when I was a kid.Very rare these days I would have thought unless the bike is badly maintained.
Keeping close to the kerb also creates other hazards for cyclists and they have a right not to do so. The problem is that it holds drivers up and they do not have the patience to deal with it. Also you should not have to stop and go on the verge to let heavy vehicles pass you. It is up to them to pass you safely. You say you used to live in London so where do you cycle now? Personally I would not entertain cycling in a busy city. It is not that I lack confidence or the know how I just do not trust a lot of drivers to act properly.
Do not get me wrong here I am not sticking up for cyclists because I despise the bad ones as much as the bad drivers but it seems a lot of drivers think they should not be on the road and they have every right.
I feel there is too much jealousy and hatred towards them and of course vice versa.
Why do you think the onus is on the driver? That tells me something. To me it the responsibility of both. Completely equal.
£5 to cover costs. What costs? Impossible to implement anyway. Maybe on the spot heavy fines for cyclists and drivers that disobey the rules would solve some of the problems that cause some of these accidents.
albion1971:
On many occasions when filtering quite safely and legally you will get a car, truck or bus deliberately blocking your path.
YES, looking after you so you don’t get into a position/situation where you could get hurt or killed! I do it regularly and will continue to do so. 30 years driving professionally and not had 1 blame accident.
Absolute rubbish. For example. Motorway all traffic at a standstill.A few of us filtering in between lanes at about 15 to 20 mph keeping a safe distance from each other and some moron will swerve to block the lane. That has happened numerous times but only in this country strangely enough. Done plenty trips to Europe and guess what the drivers there do exactly the opposite. They try to make a bit more room for you. If you get caught doing what you are doing you will be prosecuted.
Sorry I meant town driving and cyclists, traffic lights roundabouts etc. To be fair though you can usually hear a motorbike and they are long gone in front out of the way. I would never block them on a motorway as you described above.
To me it the responsibility of both. Completely equal.
£5 to cover costs. What costs? Impossible to implement anyway. Maybe on the spot heavy fines for cyclists and drivers that disobey the rules would solve some of the problems that cause some of these accidents.
Why is it impossible to implement? why not have a cycle exclusion zone within inner London (City/West end etc) similar to zones set up for Trucks already by TFL. To be able to ride in those zones a cyclist must have passed a traffic and road safety course and would be issued a permit / be entered onto an online database. A cyclist stopped for any reason within the zone would have his permit status checked and if he wasn’t in possession of one/on the database the bike would be confiscated and /or fine issued.
Completely equal.
Its not completely equal if one party is legally forced to implement training, pay for added features , and has to abide by traffic planning regulations that are extra to the national laws within a certain geographical area, and the other party does not have to do any of the above or in fact anything at all.
At this time it seems 100% of the responsibility for dealing with what is a major problem is being thrust onto the transport industry- who are making huge efforts, however it seems that the cycling community refuse to accept they also have to make changes and if cyclists wont do it voluntarily then some form of enforcement has to be bought in
To me it the responsibility of both. Completely equal.
£5 to cover costs. What costs? Impossible to implement anyway. Maybe on the spot heavy fines for cyclists and drivers that disobey the rules would solve some of the problems that cause some of these accidents.
Why is it impossible to implement? why not have a cycle exclusion zone within inner London (City/West end etc) similar to zones set up for Trucks already by TFL. To be able to ride in those zones a cyclist must have passed a traffic and road safety course and would be issued a permit / be entered onto an online database. A cyclist stopped for any reason within the zone would have his permit status checked and if he wasn’t in possession of one/on the database the bike would be confiscated and /or fine issued.
Completely equal.
Its not completely equal if one party is legally forced to implement training, pay for added features , and has to abide by traffic planning regulations that are extra to the national laws within a certain geographical area, and the other party does not have to do any of the above or in fact anything at all.
At this time it seems 100% of the responsibility for dealing with what is a major problem is being thrust onto the transport industry- who are making huge efforts, however it seems that the cycling community refuse to accept they also have to make changes and if cyclists wont do it voluntarily then some form of enforcement has to be bought in
A permit/number plate/ registration scheme sounds ideal. The £5 would cover any admin costs for maintaining the scheme.
Albion the reason I might get off onto the verge if something is having difficulty passing is for common courtesy really. I like to think if I make someone’s day that little bit easier they might replicate it to someone else. The “cycling lobby” would crucify me for doing so though
The onus is I think on the driver rather than rider. If I mess up driving, I can lose my licences or go to prison (at worst). Mess up on a bike, I can be on my merry way the next day. I also have had to spend considerable sums on ALL of my licences, a cyclist can just jump on and wobble away.
Of the total number of cyclists killed in 2012 (122) 25 were killed by lorries so if you were to take the London figures out of that then the car or van is of a far greater threat to the cyclist. Not coming down on one side or the other but I just thought that figure interesting as in the media it is always front line news when a lorry kills a cyclist yet far more are killed by other vehicles which don’t seem to grab the headlines
It makes the news because out of the five cyclists killed this year on the roads in London all have been HGV related.
The cycle registration/licence scheme has been tried in many countries and all have proved to be too expensive & time consuming to run, I think there may only be one left now. I always find this angle interesting given that no amount of training, licensing or registration will stop people running into cyclists, or cyclists taking risks for that matter. Drivers are trained, tested, licenced, taxed etc, it doesn’t stop them from having collisions that cause multiple deaths. There are plenty drivers on the road with none of the above legal requirements. It’s only because of the huge growth in motor vehicles that don’t pay any vehicle tax that’s prompted the change to no tax disc, they were still required to have a disc but paid nothing for it thereby costing money, at least cyclists never did that.
bazza123:
The video of the bike and bus, I reckon the bus driver had little chance of spotting the cyclist and in fact stopped pretty quick when the “collision” occurred. It was completely the cyclists fault IMHO, he was going far far too fast and darting around all over the shop. Only a bellend would ride like that in London.
Regarding the bus and the cyclist. The bus was stationary as the bike approached. Surely if the bus driver had checked his mirrors before moving off he would have seen him.But maybe he did see him! Certainly not completely the cyclists fault.
I’ve just run this through several times and paused it in different places. The bus had already just started moving and the cyclist is approaching from a steep angle at that point so likely to be out of view. Bus mirrors do not give a fantastic field of view at the best of times, add on that the lens will be unbreakable scratched plastic and the chance of seeing seeing something so fast moving are not at all good. By the time that the cyclist is alongside and parallel to the bus, the bus driver is likely to have been more concerned by the impending jaywalking pedestrian and the much greater probability of a nearside cyclist. An idiot trying to squeeze at breakneck speed between the bus and the van would be the more unlikely situation. We only have one pair of eyes. The bus however will most likely also have had video evidence; which we have not seen.
truckman020:
whoever was at fault,they really need to start putting more effort into educating these cyclists,from what I have read in recent times they are getting killed because they keep going through on the inside of HGVs, why do they not use common sense,they never learn until its too late
Can you remember where you read that? It’s not true. repeating silly myths like that is an insult to the victims.
really,so cyclists don’t go through on the inside then,it was reported in every paper that covered the stories that the cyclists who died went through the inside of a turning HGV,if I was a cyclist I would never do that I would hold back until the HGV has turned,hence the common sense part,if they choose to undertake a turning HGV and the driver is not paying attention then unfortunately if they are not quick enough they pay for their mistake with their lives,a sad fact but very true,although I will agree that some HGVs have turned into the path of a cyclist after overtaking them,in that case the driver should have the book thrown at him/her,i saw a one off programme on the death of a cyclist and CCTV actually showed a cement mixer lorry overtake a cyclist then turn in front of her in London,she never had a chance,he said he never saw her even though he just overtook her,but whether you agree or not a majority do undertake
I am sure a lot of people are not aware of the ego of a large portion of cyclists. With a lot of these guys, you don’t get overtaken, you get ‘dropped’. If you think driving is a rat race, buy a bike and do a regular commute, or cycle along a clubs favourite run on a sunday morning, and feel the seething competitiveness of some of these guys.
no truck involved, but depressing how little sense the rider showed.
why was he so keen to pass the bus…did he think he could keep ahead of it, or something?
why do cyclists think they are faster than motor vehicles?
I think we’ve already previously established a general cyclist mindset that says trying to outrun a,possibly turning vehicle,into and through a junction at all costs,is better than it is to wait.
m.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/top_news … s/?ref=mac
Oxford wants to be like London now.
Thankfully, I have none of these glue on goodies on my wagon so I would be barred from the city.
Sounds like a good deal, cheers.
A man has been summonsed to appear in court following a collision which resulted in the death of a cyclist in central London in February.
Alan Warwick - 61 (21.08.54) - a lorry driver from Rayleigh, Essex has been summonsed to appear at Westminster Magistrates’ Court on 21 October for causing death by careless driving.
), thankfully I’m still alive. I can appreciate what it’s like to drive as well as ride, I do plenty of lifesaver glances and have been known to stop and get up onto the verge (but not ride) if a heavy or bus is having difficulty passing.
