Well after countless threads like this which obviously shouldn’t detract from the horror these tragerdies cause I am now at the point of thinking that nothing can be done to stop this happening.
Yes drivers can have safety devices coming out their arse but they are only as good as the driver using them. Cyclists in my experience are a good bunch and apart from in major cities where the sheep mentality is strong and like lemmings they follow each other into danger, they get around fine.
So lets leave things as they are as we cannot cater for the suicidal or those moments of madness and if the cyclist community doesn’t want to push for any form of accountability or training on itself then its just down to us. In which case I will do all I can to protect them but cyclists will still die as its evolution at work and collateral damage when compared to the cost and political damage any form of cyclist accountability will cause.
Just maybe the next statistic may change the current thinking but I doubt it…
All cycles should be banned from having toe clips on pedals,then at least the cyclists would be able to put their feet on the road at junctions and have no excuse for jumping lights.
Thames trader:
All cycles should be banned from having toe clips on pedals,then at least the cyclists would be able to put their feet on the road at junctions and have no excuse for jumping lights.
Can’t think why anyone would be dumb enough to wear that sort of stupid foot wear whilst on the public road, you see the idiots at traffic lights doing some spanner balancing act just so they dont have to put there feet down and another thing should be out lawed if them forward flashing white lights, total distraction in your mirrors you dont see any other vehicles on the road with flashing white lights
Dipper_Dave:
Well after countless threads like this which obviously shouldn’t detract from the horror these tragerdies cause I am now at the point of thinking that nothing can be done to stop this happening.
Yes drivers can have safety devices coming out their arse but they are only as good as the driver using them. Cyclists in my experience are a good bunch and apart from in major cities where the sheep mentality is strong and like lemmings they follow each other into danger, they get around fine.
So lets leave things as they are as we cannot cater for the suicidal or those moments of madness and if the cyclist community doesn’t want to push for any form of accountability or training on itself then its just down to us. In which case I will do all I can to protect them but cyclists will still die as its evolution at work and collateral damage when compared to the cost and political damage any form of cyclist accountability will cause.
Just maybe the next statistic may change the current thinking but I doubt it…
This is the best we will get on here, putting aside all the blaming, willy waving & ridiculous statements. I’m no mystic meg but I forsee the same in a week or two. Time to move on.
roaduser66:
Filtering is legal. The Highway Code even asks you to take special care. You don’t like filtering, filtering isn’t illegal.
See,this is exactly what im talking about. You go on about it being legal. You blame HGVs for cyclists getting hurt,yet when I bring up about filtering you state its perfectly legal. And refuse (twice now by my counting) to at least say its dangerous,reckless and showing a disregard for road safety. Do you not think that maybe cycling between two lanes of moving traffic is not really a good idea? Legal does not automatically mean safe
Filtering is just a form of overtaking which involves passing ‘stationary’ traffic and stationary trucks obviously aren’t running over cyclists.
Which is just yet more evidence that most of the cyclist community either doesn’t have a clue how to use the road or just changes the definition of under taking moving/turning vehicles to suit themselves.Or more like a combination of both.
Although having said that even so called ‘filtering’ itself is more likely to create the situation of a cyclist getting into a blind spot while a driver is looking elsewhere when the vehicle does start moving.In which case the law isn’t much brighter than the cyclists in that regard.
albion1971:
And what do we do about the unprofessional truck drivers Nick2008?
Both parties are as much to blame.
I mean look at the pathetic arguments on this forum. What chance have they got of getting along together on the roads with some of the attitudes.
It’s a serious subject Nick. People are being killed.
I agree it is a serious subject, and one that is taken very seriously by the industry, with schemes like CLOCS and FORS, massive investment in safety equipment, manufacturers bringing in new low cab urban truck designs. The issue I see that is causing some much antagonism, is all this investment/training/regulation is all one sided. As yet I have yet to see any sort of similar enforceable initiatives for the cyclists.
There are two parties too this problem, but it seems only one is expected to carry the regulations , training and costs, an approach that clearly is not working successfully so it must be time to approach the problem from another angle and start to regulate cyclists in cities to a far higher degree.
I hear exactly what you are saying but I think a lot of the new designs as good as they are are pointless if the driver is not paying attention. Take the clip on this thread. Yes we have a crazy cyclist riding like a lunatic but it looks very much like the bus driver did not check his mirrors before moving off. I have said it before and I will say it again. On numerous occasions when in London I have stood and watched bus and lorry drivers as they move off from a junction and it is surprising how many do not check their mirrors first.
Regarding cyclists being trained or regulated I do not know why but I would suspect most cyclists are drivers anyway and probably know what they should be doing.Why should they be regulated? They do far less harm and damage than a big heavy truck.
The problem is nothing to with training or regulating either party but to do with bad attitude towards each other as seen a lot on this forum.
roaduser66:
Filtering is legal. The Highway Code even asks you to take special care. You don’t like filtering, filtering isn’t illegal.
See,this is exactly what im talking about. You go on about it being legal. You blame HGVs for cyclists getting hurt,yet when I bring up about filtering you state its perfectly legal. And refuse (twice now by my counting) to at least say its dangerous,reckless and showing a disregard for road safety. Do you not think that maybe cycling between two lanes of moving traffic is not really a good idea? Legal does not automatically mean safe
Filtering is just a form of overtaking which involves passing ‘stationary’ traffic and stationary trucks obviously aren’t running over cyclists.
Which is just yet more evidence that most of the cyclist community either doesn’t have a clue how to use the road or just changes the definition of under taking moving/turning vehicles to suit themselves.Or more like a combination of both.
Although having said that even so called ‘filtering’ itself is more likely to create the situation of a cyclist getting into a blind spot while a driver is looking elsewhere when the vehicle does start moving.In which case the law isn’t much brighter than the cyclists in that regard.
As a motorcyclist more than a cyclist I will tell you about filtering on 2 wheels.Filtering is perfectly legal as has been said but of course we get some 2 wheeled riders taking it to extreme usually by going to fast which is unacceptable.
Filtering on a motorcycle as I have been doing when necessary since I was 16 lets you see a different side to other motorists.The problem I believe is jealousy some of the time.
On many occasions when filtering quite safely and legally you will get a car, truck or bus deliberately blocking your path.
Some will suddenly swerve into your path unexpectedly and some will suddenly open their doors.All totally unacceptable and extremely dangerous.
Regarding a cyclist or motorcyclist getting in a lorry’s blind spot the fact is a good alert driver would spot them.
I have a feeling some on here have only seen it from one side.
I was listening on the cb earlier, heard a couple of tipper drivers talking about being stuck behind a cyclist. The lead driver talking perfectly normally along the lines of “we’ll get past in a minute, couple more cars coming etc”. His mate responds with “I ■■■■■■■ hate ■■■■■■■ cyclists, the ■■■■ wants pushing off.”
The “typical” tipper driver.
albion1971:
On many occasions when filtering quite safely and legally you will get a car, truck or bus deliberately blocking your path.
YES, looking after you so you don’t get into a position/situation where you could get hurt or killed! I do it regularly and will continue to do so. 30 years driving professionally and not had 1 blame accident.
albion1971:
On many occasions when filtering quite safely and legally you will get a car, truck or bus deliberately blocking your path.
YES, looking after you so you don’t get into a position/situation where you could get hurt or killed! I do it regularly and will continue to do so. 30 years driving professionally and not had 1 blame accident.
Absolute rubbish. For example. Motorway all traffic at a standstill.A few of us filtering in between lanes at about 15 to 20 mph keeping a safe distance from each other and some moron will swerve to block the lane. That has happened numerous times but only in this country strangely enough. Done plenty trips to Europe and guess what the drivers there do exactly the opposite. They try to make a bit more room for you. If you get caught doing what you are doing you will be prosecuted.
That ^^^^^ has surely gotta be a wind up? If not are you seriously telling me that you’ll deliberately block the way to stop anything on two wheels passing? That’s got nothing to do with you “taking their safety seriously” and more to do with sheer petty spite. Why don’t you apply to the police force if you consider it your job to police the roads?
Edit to add; Albion got in before me. I was responding to the post above his.
the maoster:
That ^^^^^ has surely gotta be a wind up? If not are you seriously telling me that you’ll deliberately block the way to stop anything on two wheels passing? That’s got nothing to do with you “taking their safety seriously” and more to do with sheer petty spite. Why don’t you apply to the police force if you consider it your job to police the roads?
Firstly in the case of the most likely scenarios involving truck v cyclist it will be the typical nearside front,or somewhere between the front to rear axle/s,conflict situation.
It also obviously won’t in any circumstances possibly involve a stationary truck being that stationary trucks don’t run over cyclists.While so called ‘filtering’ ( shouldn’t be ) done through a junction where it is foreseeable that what ( seems like ) stationary traffic could actually just be waiting/about to turn.
In which case ‘filtering’ in that sense is just a red herring which is being used to justify what are just dodgy passing moves.
While realistically the idea of ‘blocking’ a cyclist ‘filtering move’ with a truck would only possibly work in the case of the straight ahead type situation in which a cyclist ‘filters’ along the nearside while the driver is looking away from the near side mirrors then gets into any of the potential nearside blind spots and conflict situation as the vehicle moves away.
It can’t possibly work in the case of an approach to a turn including a roundabout entry in which a considerable gap has to be left between vehicle and kerb to allow for cut in.
However assuming the former case how does such a blocking move not possibly just contribute to road safety in the form of stopping,or at least trying to stop cyclists getting,into a potential danger area such as the possibly relatively blind front nearside corner as the driver moves away.While the good solution of the ‘swing out stop sign idea’ was surely just another type of ‘filtering’ blocking idea too.
While the fact is the type of actual cyclist v truck conflict situations which we’ve seen don’t fit the description of ‘filtering’ at all.In most cases they seem to involve cyclists trying to enter/share junctions together with and at the nearside of moving trucks.As usual roundabouts just being another form of junction.
As for me as I’ve said if I was doing mostly London work I’d prefer to use a left hand drive wagon being that the odds of meeting and not seeing the wrong cyclist in the wrong place at the wrong time probably outweigh any other drawback involving that.
the maoster:
You’ve jus used twentyeleven gazillion words to perfectly describe a scenario we were never talking about. Well done, take a bow.
Roadhouse made the point of trying to turn it into a so called ‘filtering’ issue when I’ve used less words than him to show that stationary trucks don’t run over cyclists.
I’m sorry Albion but I reckon you are very wrong on car & bike ownership. This might be the case in the rest of the country, but I would say a hell of of a lot of cyclists in London don’t have some form of motor vehicle licence at all. There is simply no need for a car licence in most of Central London. No proper parking, lack of petrol stations etc etc.There are also a lot of students and migrant workers on bikes too.
The video of the bike and bus, I reckon the bus driver had little chance of spotting the cyclist and in fact stopped pretty quick when the “collision” occurred. It was completely the cyclists fault IMHO, he was going far far too fast and darting around all over the shop. Only a bellend would ride like that in London.
With regard to filtering, yes it may be legal, but not a very good idea I reckon. On a motorbike you have the speed/acceleration to get out of trouble if the traffic starts moving, on a bike it’s easy to be stuck out in no mans land.
The reason there should be cycle regulation is that everyone in a vehicle has to pass a test/s to be on the road: any fool can get on a bike at any time, it’s not a good combination.
It’s obvious all the safety modifications aren’t working, the elephant in the room is the unregulated cyclists, some of which are taking frequent risks.
[/quote]
On numerous occasions when in London I have stood and watched bus drivers as they move off from a bus stop or a junction and it is surprising how many do not check their mirrors first.
[/quote]
FTFY
Thought it were instant dismissal if they did use their offside mirrors?
rob22888:
Simply, the TfL were irresponsible promoting all this cycling on roads that aren’t fit. If they want thousands of amateur cyclists knocking about on busy highways they have to provide an infrastructure that keeps them safe; ie. proper Dutch-style segregated lanes. This is the inconvenient truth they don’t seem to want to accept.
The number of deaths is desperately inevitable & i’m surprised there aren’t even more. I’m all for getting more cyclists on the roads to cut traffic, but not this current system whereby lorry drivers are essentially expected to drive their rig through a children’s playground & there never be any incidents.
you dont see any other vehicles on the road with flashing white lights
