Fincham:
roaduser66:
Fincham:
How many cyclist’s lives are saved, by the prompt evasive action of other road users, when they are taking unnecessary risks?
Eleventy twelve. Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.
Your answer tells me that you are probably a cyclist, I assume then that cyclist’s NEVER make wrong decisions.
It’s a shame you didn’t bother to read the post above yours that explains that blame is attached to cyclists in 20% of cases. I don’t know how I could have made that clearer.
This happened before, someone demands evidence that cyclists are NOT usually at fault in KSI RTCs. The evidence is posted that it is usually the driver’s fault but cyclists are to blame in a fifth of collisions. IMMEDIATELY someone pops up and says “So, I suppose you’re saying cyclists are never to blame!?!”
Once again, cyclists are not usually at fault in these collisions. It is usually the driver who made a fatal error, or was drunk, or looking at ■■■■ on his mobile, or playing with a phone, or asleep, or on drugs, or speeding, or in an unsafe vehicle, or failing to indicate.
Think about it, construction vehicles were involved in all five cyclist fatalities in the capital this year. Not buses, not coaches, not taxis, not private cars. So, either there is something about these vehicles or drivers that makes them deadly, or the cyclists are behaving entirely properly until they see a construction vehicle and suddenly behave rashly. In London, HGVs were involved in 53% of cycling fatalities in 2011 despite making up just 4% of the traffic. With drivers like Dennis Putz and Barry Meyer getting jobs driving lorries despite both having been banned from driving five times I think it’s time their employers stood in the dock with them. Someone employed both those drivers and either didn’t bother to check their driving record or didn’t care. Either way it’s Corporate Manslaughter.
truckman020:
whoever was at fault,they really need to start putting more effort into educating these cyclists,from what I have read in recent times they are getting killed because they keep going through on the inside of HGVs, why do they not use common sense,they never learn until its too late
Can you remember where you read that? It’s not true. repeating silly myths like that is an insult to the victims.
The lorry involved in this mornings accident looks like a utility contractors reinstatement lorry,judging by the tarmac duvet/sheet on the back.Those guys are usually under the cosh as they are paid by the square metre of reinstatement completed bit like tipper drivers who are paid by the load, hope I am wrong but rushing and tearing could be a contributory factor here.
Too many people in too small an environment.
Our small island cant cope. Yet each year,more come. And more…and more…
commonrail:
Arrogant [zb]
I remember roaduser66 from the last time a cyclist got killed in London. He’s a pro cycle,anti vehicle nut who will bombard you with statistic after statistic while ignoring any attempts to get him to admit cyclists are notorious law breakers. He will NEVER admit cyclists run red lights on a regular basis,only show you the statistics of times when they get caught. He actually tried to tell me only 10% of cyclists do it!
He tried to be a smart alec back then too regarding banned hgv drivers but declined to answer my last post,in particular my question asking why a banned driver is STILL allowed to buy a bike and be allowed on the road to be defended by the likes of him.
HGVs,buses and cars are much,much larger than cyclists meaning any lapse of concentration is of a higher percentage chance of resulting in an accident which can,unfortunately,lead to casualties.
He seems determined to avoid the fact that most cyclists are deemed blameless in accidents only because when an accident DOES occur it is maybe the drivers fault but 99% of drivers anticipate a cyclists manouvre in advance,therefor avoiding the collision. The cyclist might run the red light,move out without looking,go between moving vehicles. Doesn’t matter. The fact is the idiotic cyclist manovure was allowed to progress without incident. Its not that cyclists are blamless and drivers are the cause of the casualties. Its actually the drivers who know how cyclists act and avoid hitting them that stops MORE incidents than at present.
You will never get him to admit anything other than what his beloved polls,studies and graphs say so your better off just ignoring him. He is without a doubt a pro-cycle activist who has joined an hgv forum with the sole intention of ramming his (mis guided) points across and his arrogance and disdain for road users,in particular HGVs,is breathtaking.
The-Snowman:
commonrail:
Arrogant [zb]
I remember roaduser66 from the last time a cyclist got killed in London. He’s a pro cycle,anti vehicle nut who will bombard you with statistic after statistic while ignoring any attempts to get him to admit cyclists are notorious law breakers. He will NEVER admit cyclists run red lights on a regular basis,only show you the statistics of times when they get caught. He actually tried to tell me only 10% of cyclists do it!
He tried to be a smart alec back then too regarding banned hgv drivers but declined to answer my last post,in particular my question asking why a banned driver is STILL allowed to buy a bike and be allowed on the road to be defended by the likes of him.
HGVs,buses and cars are much,much larger than cyclists meaning any lapse of concentration is of a higher percentage chance of resulting in an accident which can,unfortunately,lead to casualties.
He seems determined to avoid the fact that most cyclists are deemed blameless in accidents only because when an accident DOES occur it is maybe the drivers fault but 99% of drivers anticipate a cyclists manouvre in advance,therefor avoiding the collision. The cyclist might run the red light,move out without looking,go between moving vehicles. Doesn’t matter. The fact is the idiotic cyclist manovure was allowed to progress without incident. Its not that cyclists are blamless and drivers are the cause of the casualties. Its actually the drivers who know how cyclists act and avoid hitting them that stops MORE incidents than at present.
You will never get him to admit anything other than what his beloved polls,studies and graphs say so your better off just ignoring him. He is without a doubt a pro-cycle activist who has joined an hgv forum with the sole intention of ramming his (mis guided) points across and his arrogance and disdain for road users,in particular HGVs,is breathtaking.
A lot of this is made up. I haven’t posted anything that’s “anti vehicle”- I’m not even sure what that means. Cyclists are not “notorious” lawbreakers at all, cyclists aren’t a separate race, there are good and bad, same with drivers. A banned driver is allowed to buy a bike cos there’s no law against it. If you disagree with something I’ve written then point it out and I’ll answer as best I can, but don’t you dare lie about what I’ve said.
roaduser66:
It’s a shame you didn’t bother to read the post above yours that explains that blame is attached to cyclists in 20% of cases. I don’t know how I could have made that clearer.
This happened before, someone demands evidence that cyclists are NOT usually at fault in KSI RTCs. The evidence is posted that it is usually the driver’s fault but cyclists are to blame in a fifth of collisions. IMMEDIATELY someone pops up and says “So, I suppose you’re saying cyclists are never to blame!?!”
Once again, cyclists are not usually at fault in these collisions. It is usually the driver who made a fatal error, or was drunk, or looking at ■■■■ on his mobile, or playing with a phone, or asleep, or on drugs, or speeding, or in an unsafe vehicle, or failing to indicate.
Think about it, construction vehicles were involved in all five cyclist fatalities in the capital this year. Not buses, not coaches, not taxis, not private cars. So, either there is something about these vehicles or drivers that makes them deadly, or the cyclists are behaving entirely properly until they see a construction vehicle and suddenly behave rashly. In London, HGVs were involved in 53% of cycling fatalities in 2011 despite making up just 4% of the traffic. With drivers like Dennis Putz and Barry Meyer getting jobs driving lorries despite both having been banned from driving five times I think it’s time their employers stood in the dock with them. Someone employed both those drivers and either didn’t bother to check their driving record or didn’t care. Either way it’s Corporate Manslaughter.
The definition of ‘fault/blame’ being arguable in a political environment that is pushing ever closer to a definition which decides blame based on vulnerability as opposed road behaviour.
Meanwhile maybe less large vehicles than cars etc but those large vehicles require a larger proportional amount of clear road space around them when changing direction for example.
As for construction traffic being proportionally more involved v haulage development has long since outweighed industry in London which would explain the numbers.While I don’t think you’d find many,if any,drivers who’d want to trade uk distance work for any type work in London.The fact is the place is a stupid contradiction of trying to concentrate too much of the country’s population and resulting traffic in too small an area.When that ‘traffic’ happens to be large vehicles mixed with cyclists the results are inevitable. 
Why do drivers keep blaming the cyclists? Why do the cyclists blame the drivers? The evidence shows most accidents are driver/rider error or in a lot of cases a bit of both.
STOP trying to blame each other and sort your driving/riding out.
eagerbeaver:
Too many people in too small an environment.
Our small island cant cope. Yet each year,more come. And more…and more…
More like a situation in which much of the country remains an underdeveloped barren wilderness.While calling for London and the South East to take ever larger increases in inward population movement and growth to keep those other areas an underdeveloped,barren,wilderness.
Carryfast:
The definition of ‘fault/blame’ being arguable in a political environment that is pushing ever closer to a definition which decides blame based on vulnerability as opposed road behaviour.
Stats 19 is usually the method used to allocate culpability. The police assess liability based on witness accounts, cctv, road positioning etc. The police have a longstanding history of making a complete dog’s breakfast of fatal KSI cyclist collisions. they lose evidence, ignore witnesses, dispose of clothing, assume guilt on the part of the cyclist, that’s why complaints to the police about shoddy investigative work after a cyclist has been hurt by a driver are running at four thousand cases. If you have any evidence that political pressure is exerted on the police to absolve cyclists of blame I’d be delighted to see it, all the evidence I’ve seen points very much in the other direction, the death of Eilidh Cairns being a case in point. The cops made such a mess of the investigation the driver was allowed to continue driving and killed again, this time a holocaust survivor.
Roaduser66, who are you and what is your job, do you have first hand experience as either a driver in London, or a cyclist in London, why are you so defensive of cyclists, when the majority of drivers in London in HGV vehicles, know that a lot of cyclists make their own mistakes whilst cycling in London, I too am an HGV driver and I witness cyclists making bad decisions everyday, I actually stopped at a junction where I was attempting to turn left and got out and called the cyclist that tried to undertake me a c**t for attempting it and he said it was my fault.
Sapper
roaduser66:
A lot of this is made up. I haven’t posted anything that’s “anti vehicle”- I’m not even sure what that means. Cyclists are not “notorious” lawbreakers at all, cyclists aren’t a separate race, there are good and bad, same with drivers. A banned driver is allowed to buy a bike cos there’s no law against it. If you disagree with something I’ve written then point it out and I’ll answer as best I can, but don’t you dare lie about what I’ve said.
None of its made up.Unless you implying you did answer my last question to you,that most road users wont anticipate a cyclists manouvre and avoid a collision,that you DONT quote more statistics than a government think tank or that you DIDNT tell me only 10% of cyclists ran red lights?
Ok,ill admit maybe anti vehicle is a bit strong,but your far to pro cyclist and blind to what actually happens on the roads,not what the statistics tell you,to be much else.
As for no law against banned drivers buying bikes,do you not think that might be wrong? Do you not think that maybe cyclists should have to show some road sense? Today ive seen
Cyclists using mobile phones
Cyclists texting,using facebook,looking at ■■■■. Who knows,but looking at their phone rather than the road
Cyclists running red lights
Cyclists darting between two lanes of moving traffic
Cyclists going the wrong way up a one way street
Cyclists going the wrong way round a roundabout
I was only on the road for a combined total of,maybe,3 hours and thats what I alone saw.
One of your first posts today was talking about decent cycle lanes and I thought,Ok yes,he has a point. A constructive suggestion open to a resonable discussion. And in the space of about an hour you’ve decended into cliched remarks about drivers looking at ■■■■ while driving,drunk drivers and all that other stuff
A reasonable debate was being had till you joined in and its almost as if your baiting for people to slag off cyclists and say things like “better off dead” etc so you can use it as evidence.
Yes there are good and bad drivers,just like there are good and bad cyclists. Its that the bad drivers cause more accidents due to their size of vehicle,not that there are so few bad cyclists
roaduser66:
sapper:
Roaduser66, who are you and what is your job, do you have first hand experience as either a driver in London, or a cyclist in London, why are you so defensive of cyclists, when the majority of drivers in London in HGV vehicles, know that a lot of cyclists make their own mistakes whilst cycling in London, I too am an HGV driver and I witness cyclists making bad decisions everyday, I actually stopped at a junction where I was attempting to turn left and got out and called the cyclist that tried to undertake me a c**t for attempting it and he said it was my fault.
Sapper
Which junction?
How many junctions did it happen to you at? 
roaduser66:
sapper:
Roaduser66, who are you and what is your job, do you have first hand experience as either a driver in London, or a cyclist in London, why are you so defensive of cyclists, when the majority of drivers in London in HGV vehicles, know that a lot of cyclists make their own mistakes whilst cycling in London, I too am an HGV driver and I witness cyclists making bad decisions everyday, I actually stopped at a junction where I was attempting to turn left and got out and called the cyclist that tried to undertake me a c**t for attempting it and he said it was my fault.
Sapper
Which junction?
Politician as well, answering a question with a question. Try answering a question first… 
The Sunday Times was the source for that claim, not me:
14% of drivers jump a red light at least twice a month – Direct Line survey, August 2011
10% of cyclists found to jump red lights – Sunday Times operation, November 2013
Sumsmeister:
roaduser66:
sapper:
Roaduser66, who are you and what is your job, do you have first hand experience as either a driver in London, or a cyclist in London, why are you so defensive of cyclists, when the majority of drivers in London in HGV vehicles, know that a lot of cyclists make their own mistakes whilst cycling in London, I too am an HGV driver and I witness cyclists making bad decisions everyday, I actually stopped at a junction where I was attempting to turn left and got out and called the cyclist that tried to undertake me a c**t for attempting it and he said it was my fault.
Sapper
Which junction?
Politician as well, answering a question with a question. Try answering a question first…
I’ve cycled fifty thousand miles in London. E3 to E14 for six years, then E11 to SE1 for 8.
I defend cyclists because it’s a common myth that they are the agents of their own collisions. This is rarely true. It’s incredibly frustrating to see this myth endlessly trotted out.
I’m not disputing your direct personal experience (although the snowman seems to have seen an awful lot of bad behaviour in just three hours. He should film stuff like that then post the footage here so it doesn’t look like he’s making it up, and three of the things he mentions aren’t even illegal).
What else do you want to know? I asked where the junction was because the cycle lane is usually on the nearside.
I will try not be biased here but you can see from some of the responses the hatred, aggression and bad attitude towards cyclists.
As an LGV/PCV Car driver and cyclist I see bad driving bad attitude from them all everyday.They are all as bad as each other but to me lorry and bus drivers should be adopting a professional attitude as they are meant to be professionals.
Shouting and swearing to any other road user is far from professional and needs to be eliminated.
We are talking about people’s lives here and the attitude of some is disgraceful and I am talking about drivers and cyclists.
An aggressive driver is never a good driver as any professional driver will know.
albion1971:
I will try not be biased here but you can see from some of the responses the hatred, aggression and bad attitude towards cyclists.
As an LGV/PCV Car driver and cyclist I see bad driving bad attitude from them all everyday.They are all as bad as each other but to me lorry and bus drivers should be adopting a professional attitude as they are meant to be professionals.
Shouting and swearing to any other road user is far from professional and needs to be eliminated.
We are talking about people’s lives here and the attitude of some is disgraceful and I am talking about drivers and cyclists.
An aggressive driver is never a good driver as any professional driver will know.
This country has a very strange attitude toward cyclists, unlike anywhere else in Europe. I get screamed at by drivers to cycle on the pavement. I get screamed at by drivers to cycle in a cycle lane going the other way. Comments beneath the Daily Mail call cyclists “vermin” and “rats”. Clarkson “jokes” about killing cyclists and a million people sign a petition to have him keep his job. If this hatred was directed toward a minority not predicated on mode of transport but on skin colour it would be illegal.
I don’t jump lights. I don’t ride on pavements. I obey all the laws, my front light’s a thousand candle power, I’ve got insurance, and I still get hatred, invective and downright dangerous attitudes from pointless little ■■■■■■■■■■ like this bellend:
kentonline.co.uk/ashford/new … sts-34715/
Pushing a blind person off a bike, suspended sentence.