Another cyclist killed in london

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
141

“BoringDrivel” - Ive trawled back through this contentious thread, and for the life of me cannot find a single constructive idea from your deranged self as to a solution to the ongoing (but by no means epidemic) cyclist squashing problem. Lots of ideas proffered by working drivers however. Tbh, i really dont know what you expect to achieve by antagonising all and sundry with your unique brand of discourse. Just for the sheer outrageous hell of it - what do you think the cycling fraternity could possibly do to help THEMSELVES to reduce said problem? I guess i know what`s coming, but give it a shot, eh?

Billy - You seem to be dipping a sympathetic toe into his poisonous pond. It`ll go green and fall off.

142

boredwivdrivin:
ROG : you are missing the point : that is where the cycle lanes are .

that is CYCLISTS space .

I assumed you had included cycle lanes and my point still stands - just because there is a space/lane etc does not necessarily mean its safe to enter/use it

As a pedestrian would you enter the road with a green crossing man showing if there was the possibility that the very fast approaching vehicle might not stop ?

Being legally right and dead … hmmmm

143

I agree with carryfast - whoever is there second needs to be very aware of what those might do who were there first

144

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Hear you are Boredwivdrivin, the mirror setup on my Daf 8wheel tipper.

145

Mike-C:

BillyHunt:

Mike-C:

BillyHunt:
I don’t suppose these incidents could have anything to do with this could they?
road.cc/154913

I’d doubt it. According to that report…

TfL says that issues identified included lack of insurance, driving without the appropriate licence, with unsafe tyres or an unsafe load, and not accurately recording driver hours.

Now i’m no expert in this area, but i don’t think any of them things have been responsible for a cyclist death in London.

The point being that, if you’re the type of driver willing to take a vehicle on the road with any of those conditions you’re not really going to be the type that drives responsibly are you?

Dunno, although i see lots of cyclists cycling irresponsibly too.

Maybe they should fine cyclists who hold traffic up on the roads, like they’re now doing with middle lane hoggers? :laughing:

I see plenty cyclist riding irresponsibly, that point has never been in doubt, good luck trying to police your idea though now they’ve actually caught & prosecuted a middle lane hogger.

146

Perhaps it would be possible to look at the court outcome after these accidents there does not seem to be an epidemic of HGV drivers going to prison so is it the case that once the courts have looked at all the facts they concluded that it was a genuine accident (yes such things do happen) with no one to blame or possibly that the cyclist was to blame and therefore not something the cycling lobby would want to shout about.
People continually cite Europe as the way to go and yes there is a lot to learn from the way that their roads are laid out, however the cyclists mindset is very different over there with the vast majority of obeying the traffic laws that relate to them, and the way the authorities view cycling misdemeanours for example in Germany it is an offence not to use the cycle path if one is provided and speaking from experience the Polizei will soon tell you to get on it or face a fine

147

ROG:
I agree with carryfast - whoever is there second needs to be very aware of what those might do who were there first

I would agree with that except CF doesn’t think cyclists get there first, and that regardless of who gets there first the lorry should be allowed to go first, always. He also doesn’t believe that a cyclist can get away from a junction quicker than a lorry. Then again he hasn’t driven one this century so is unlikely to have had the pleasure of putting your foot down in an automatic, and going nowhere fast.

148

mazzer:
Perhaps it would be possible to look at the court outcome after these accidents there does not seem to be an epidemic of HGV drivers going to prison so is it the case that once the courts have looked at all the facts they concluded that it was a genuine accident (yes such things do happen) with no one to blame or possibly that the cyclist was to blame and therefore not something the cycling lobby would want to shout about.
People continually cite Europe as the way to go and yes there is a lot to learn from the way that their roads are laid out, however the cyclists mindset is very different over there with the vast majority of obeying the traffic laws that relate to them, and the way the authorities view cycling misdemeanours for example in Germany it is an offence not to use the cycle path if one is provided and speaking from experience the Polizei will soon tell you to get on it or face a fine

Here you go, an example I posted earlier about what your family can expect from the courts in this country’s think it’s fair?
road.cc/155028

149

BillyHunt:

mazzer:
Perhaps it would be possible to look at the court outcome after these accidents there does not seem to be an epidemic of HGV drivers going to prison so is it the case that once the courts have looked at all the facts they concluded that it was a genuine accident (yes such things do happen) with no one to blame or possibly that the cyclist was to blame and therefore not something the cycling lobby would want to shout about.
People continually cite Europe as the way to go and yes there is a lot to learn from the way that their roads are laid out, however the cyclists mindset is very different over there with the vast majority of obeying the traffic laws that relate to them, and the way the authorities view cycling misdemeanours for example in Germany it is an offence not to use the cycle path if one is provided and speaking from experience the Polizei will soon tell you to get on it or face a fine

Here you go, an example I posted earlier about what your family can expect from the courts in this country’s think it’s fair?
road.cc/155028

But whether rightly or wrongly in this case the court found the driver not guilty having seen all the facts, and maybe in this case as the driver did not use one of his mirrors perhaps the verdict was wrong, but going back over the last 3 or 4 years it cannot have been a wrong verdict in every case if the driver was found not guilty.
I am not taking one side or another as someone who drove an artic into London on a weekly basis up until recently you see plenty of stupidity from drivers of all types of vehicles cyclists included, but cyclists are the more vulnerable road users and you would think common sense would prevail have often sat ready to turn left indicator on and someone will come up the inside why? Is where they are going going to be gone if they are held up by 10 seconds. There used a big poster campaign on country roads saying Better 5 minutes late in this world than arriving early in the next one, wouldn’t be a bad idea to resurrect that in London

150

It’s well known on cycling forums that sentences given out to drivers that have killed cyclists are pitiful in the extreme. Mainly because the cps are reluctant to use dangerous driving as a charge, preferring the easier to prove careless driving. Regardless of which they choose if found guilty the judiciary seem reluctant to give out anything like maximum sentences. The line about" whatever sentence I give you will not bring the dead cyclist back" must be particularly galling to the bereaved family. As they tend to say, it’s still the best way to commit murder in this country and get away with it.
As for a campaign why not, preferably a big one on national TV reminding people of the dangers. A comeback for Augustus windsock anyone? for the older members.

151

boredwivdrivin:
yo troll .

boredwivdrivin:
so snowman troll

You really like that word “troll” dont you. Its been explained to you god knows how many times what constitutes trolling and what doesnt so I can now only deduce your either thick as pig ■■■■ or your shoehorning it into every post in a ■■■■ poor attempt at winding up. 1/10 for effort in either case

boredwivdrivin:
I DID NOT ask trolls to answer the second post as it is fact and you can only agree or disagree .

Someone answering it is either agreeing or disageeing. If you dont want something responded too,dont put it in an open forum. You dont get to pick and choose which posts you put out there get responded too. If someone disagrees they will tell you why. Thats how forums work. If you dont like it,dont post

boredwivdrivin:
WHAT HAS TRANSPORT INDUSTRY DONE TO ALLEVIATE THE PROBLEM ■■?

Let me ask you this. What would you like the transport industry to do? Because at present trucks have between 6-8 mirrors,limited in speed,limited to certain places for weight or length,limited to times for certain places and the driver has to sit a test with an examiner to prove he can handle the size,weight etc. Also there are random road side checks by DVSA which can take up to 3 hours in some cases to check road worthyness of the vehicle etc.
I cant think what else could be done.
Contrast that with your group. Cyclists. What has the CYCLE industry done to alleviate the problem? Because all I hear is cyclists shouting for more regulations for drivers,more restrictions,more training,demanding more and more responsibility be placed on drivers and that drivers get the full blame in a collision without question without taking ANY onus on their own group to show a bit of care for their own safety and respect for other road users. And when its brought up about having a cycle license or test,compulsory insurance,plates to make the rider indentifiable etc its met with howls of protest and the usual cries of making drivers more responsible.
So ill ask you again. What are your reasons for demanding more responsibility placed on drivers yet continuing to resist calls for a cycle license? Surely even you can see the benefit of keeping cyclists off the road who are a danger to themselves and everyone else? If you can show competancy you’ll pass the test. Its not rocket science
Because ive said it before,the main problem is attitudes like yours where a cyclist demands motorists bend to their demands at all costs while flouting laws they dont like,such as my favourite running red lights. I strongly feel if cyclists were held accountable for their actions and had to answer for wrong doings and dangerous manouveres then the attitude of some drivers would change. The arrogance that seeps from all pro cyclists because “our mode of transport is saving the planet” is what causes the main issues.
Yes there are dangerous idiots behind the wheel. No one is disputing that. But people like you who not only ignore the dangerous cycling habits that occur but try to justify it and blame drivers for all collisions regardless of what actually happened is what blocks any attempts at solving the problem.
Ive said many MANY times that all groups need to share the road. I also dont buy into the “bikes dont pay road tax” argument since road fund license is only a small part of the roads budget. No one owns it,or has more right to be there than anyone else.
But cyclists and people like you seem to think bikes have more right than anyone else and that is a big part of the problem

152

Muckaway . thanks love .
Ive pointed out above that DAFs should be banned from the road til they fit scania mirrors .

But as you are aware they are not suitable for the purpose , i trust as a responsible tipper driver you take extra care to make up for the known shortcomings .

153

boredwivdrivin:
Muckaway . thanks love .
Ive pointed out above that DAFs should be banned from the road til they fit scania mirrors .

But as you are aware they are not suitable for the purpose , i trust as a responsible tipper driver you take extra care to make up for the known shortcomings .

What are you on about? Why are Scania mirrors so much better? Having driven Scania 8wheeler I’ll say they’re no better or worse.

154

I’ve never come close to injuring a cyclist. I imagine the majority of posters here haven’t either. What are we doing different that others can’t seem to grasp?

155

the maoster:
I’ve never come close to injuring a cyclist. I imagine the majority of posters here haven’t either. What are we doing different that others can’t seem to grasp?

It could be claimed that you’re not trying hard enough! :wink:

156

Good point, well made. :wink:

157

Yo SnowTroll

still struggling wiv the old answering the question thingo i see .
i asked ““WHAT HAS TRANSPORT INDUSTRY DONE TO ALLEVIATE THE PROBLEM ■■?””

and you said :

Let me ask you this. What would you like the transport industry to do? Because at present trucks have between 6-8 mirrors,limited in speed,limited to certain places for weight or length,limited to times for certain places and the driver has to sit a test with an examiner to prove he can handle the size,weight etc. Also there are random road side checks by DVSA which can take up to 3 hours in some cases to check road worthyness of the vehicle etc.
I cant think what else could be done.

you will notice , unless you are still being deliberately obtuse , that these are all things imposed on transport industry by government/EU in a futile attempt to regulate it , and prevent the worst attrocities .

None of these measures come from the transport industry whatsoever .

the transport industry efforts are yellow mudguard stickers worn by occassional trucks ;
and government lobbying to make the industry less safe :: POA to get round WTD and reducing weekly rest from 36 hour to 24 minimums .

contrast that with the cycling community ( i am repeating myself here for snowtrolls benefit ) which has organised various charities and pressure groups to improve their lot

these include ,for example : SUSTRANS which funded and built cycle path No1 from Bath to Bristol to provide an off road commuter route , recreational path and safe place for kids to play/learn . off its own bat , with some local government grants , entirely by volunteers .
And of course they go into schools and provide free safety training and free cycling proficency tests in many of the cities and towns ( but not all ) in our country .

all of this with no help at all from road transport industry , ( there may of course be some parts of the country where cooperation is excellent but i can find no examples )

so we can see the cycling community is intelligent , motivated , hardworking , imaginative , industrious and inclusive .

the road transport industry is is …

disreputable by its own activities and selfishness , yellow mudguard stickers aside

158

Hmm. Scania mirror’s vs Daf mirror’s. The mind boggles. Also, what’s all this bollock’s about breathing fume’s and not wanting to queue behind vehicles?

If you want to breathe clean air, move to the Arctic. I never hear you cycling ■■■’s complain about not paying for insurance, fuel, road tax, MOT though.

So don’t moan, and if you want to cycle around in lycra with your vigilante cam stuck on your helmet, looking like complete knob’s, ■■■■ off into the countryside and do it.

159

its quite simple eagerbeaver .

the dafs mirrors have the main mirror at the top and wide angle mirror at the bottom .same as MAN or Volvo . this creates blind spots because you are looking down rather than back .

however the DAFs faults are compounded by having the main mirror too small and too round .
unlike the volvo or mans which are larger and squarer and not too bad .

many moons ago i moved from a LeylandDAF 85 to an early DAF XF . it was quite obvious to my analytical mind that the new mirrors were a backward step with horrendous blind spots

Contrast these efforts with a Scania or New Actros . these both have excellent mirrors with no blindspots . the scania has conventional setup with low set mirror arms which allows me to see every wheelnut and back bumper right up to the front near side doorframe post with absolutely no blindspots whatsoever
the actros has upsider downers (from memory) but are low set on door , of excellent size and shape , and again provide excellent visibility down both sides of truck with no blindspots whatsoever .

other notable good set ups include the IVECO

hope that clears things up for you

certainly if EU want to make some new rules they could make all vehicles wear scania , or actros mirrors . i would be astonished if accident rates didnt fall

160

eagerbeaver:
Hmm. Scania mirror’s vs Daf mirror’s. The mind boggles. Also, what’s all this bollock’s about breathing fume’s and not wanting to queue behind vehicles?

If you want to breathe clean air, move to the Arctic. I never hear you cycling ■■■’s complain about not paying for insurance, fuel, road tax, MOT though.

So don’t moan, and if you want to cycle around in lycra with your vigilante cam stuck on your helmet, looking like complete knob’s, ■■■■ off into the countryside and do it.

Sounds like you’ve been sucking in some fumes yourself there, just relax man, all that stress will kill you.
Why shouldn’t I want clean air to breathe, sucking in diesel fumes doesn’t seem to have done you any good. As it happens I do pay insurance, you never know when a dodgy trucker will be along now do you, my bike gets serviced twice a year, doesn’t need fuel as its powered by my steel like thighs, road tax doesn’t exist so no, I don’t pay it & nor should you. Why is it a vigilante cam on a bike when it’s an essential bit of kit in a truck?
Now be a good little boy & get your homework done, it’s a school day tomorrow & the adults are having a chat.